Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[HeIsHere]

Your total depravity doctrine, as much as you seem to think you don’t adhere to it, is false and has been debunked with scripture.

Babies aren’t sinners straightaway upon birth.

Agree.

We are born alienated from God.
Adam and Eve opened the doorway which allowed sin into the world.
Sinful nature is not inherited but rather what we see in the world is a lack of holiness.
Nuance is important and people typically repeat what they have been told.

We can thank Augustine for these horrible doctrines of total depravity, original sin/sin nature, the elect/select, natural man no ability to choose, etc., etc.,

And I also agree, salvation is completed for everyone, but each individual person needs to appropriate it and make it their own.

I think that if you can can come to a point of eternal security you will be in the correct understanding of the plan of salvation because you are absolutely correct Jesus is on the higher ground.

Jesus is greater.

 

[HeIsHere]

James is contrasting “Real” faith in Christ vs an empty, dead profession. WE are made alive who were dead. This is what Ephesians speaks of;

Made Alive in Christ
2 And you [a]were dead [b]in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the [c]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, [d]indulging the desires of the flesh and of the [e]mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead [f]in our transgressions, made us alive together [g]with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and [h]that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Do you think "dead" in this passage is about faith or about being "dead" as in separated from God?

Do you know that words have different meanings depending on he surrounding text?

Would you agree that in order for something to be dead it then was once alive?

Do you know of anything that is dead that was not once alive?

 

[PennEd]

Let's just be plain about something:

Yes. Lets.
So PLAINLY tell us if Jesus IS God.

Every once in awhile the need is there to alert people that it's not just the little quirky heresies you adhere to, but the big ones too, and therefore you should be avoided. So about every couple of weeks or so, we need to remind people of that.

Of course a big chunk goes away if you'd simply answer if Jesus is God. YES OR NO.

But I think resident is right, you crave the ATT.

 

[HeIsHere]

Yes. Lets.
So PLAINLY tell us if Jesus IS God.

Every once in awhile the need is there to alert people that it's not just the little quirky heresies you adhere to, but the big ones too, and therefore you should be avoided. So about every couple of weeks or so, we need to remind people of that.

Of course a big chunk goes away if you'd simply answer if Jesus is God. YES OR NO.

But I think resident is right, you crave the ATT.

Yes that would be important to know.
Agree needs to be YES of NO.

I think that would be very disingenuous if a straight answer is not given.
While I think some teachings are open for discussion the divinity of Christ is not.

 

[Rosemaryx]

Yes. Lets.
So PLAINLY tell us if Jesus IS God.

Every once in awhile the need is there to alert people that it's not just the little quirky heresies you adhere to, but the big ones too, and therefore you should be avoided. So about every couple of weeks or so, we need to remind people of that.

Of course a big chunk goes away if you'd simply answer if Jesus is God. YES OR NO.

But I think resident is right, you crave the ATT.

Matthew 5: 37
Simply let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ Anything more comes from the evil one.

 

[Runningman]

Yes. Lets.
So PLAINLY tell us if Jesus IS God.

Since I follow what the Bible says, go read what the Bible says and that's my answer.

Every once in awhile the need is there to alert people that it's not just the little quirky heresies you adhere to, but the big ones too, and therefore you should be avoided. So about every couple of weeks or so, we need to remind people of that.

So you admit to spreading lies about me. Remember, before I even said "yes or no" you were already saying "You don't believe Jesus is God."

Of course a big chunk goes away if you'd simply answer if Jesus is God. YES OR NO.

What goes away exactly?

But I think resident is right, you crave the ATT.

I know you believe that. You're eager to believe anything bad about me. I can see that.

 

[Runningman]

Matthew 5: 37
Simply let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ Anything more comes from the evil one.

Please let me know when you find anyone here who actually follows that.

 

[Rosemaryx]

Please let me know when you find anyone here who actually follows that.

1 Peter 3:15
But in your hearts sanctify Christ as Lord, always ready for a defence to everyone asking you an account concerning the hope in you; yet with gentleness and fear,

 

[HeIsHere]

Since I follow what the Bible says, go read what the Bible says and that's my answer.



So you admit to spreading lies about me. Remember, before I even said "yes or no" you were already saying "You don't believe Jesus is God."



What goes away exactly?



I know you believe that. You're eager to believe anything bad about me. I can see that.

Not sure about prior conversations, I have to wonder why you cannot just answer Yes or No, are you being defensive or is it because you are hiding your understanding of scripture and not want to get banned?

I can not understand why you would want to feed this speculation if you do indeed believe Jesus is God.

JW's point to the Bible too so that is not an answer.

 

[HeIsHere]

Empty profession of faith/dead faith is exactly what James is writing about. Says/claims (key word) to have faith, but has no works. Can that faith save him? (James 2:14) Faith that is alive in Christ saves and will be utilized (Ephesians 2:5-10) but not a bare profession of faith.

Tell me to whom is James writing?

Let's see if this position that prevails which in churches and the internet holds out with careful analysis.

 

[Runningman]

Not sure about prior conversations, I have to wonder why you cannot just answer Yes or No, are you being defensive or is it because you are hiding your understanding of scripture and not want to get banned?

I can not understand why you would want to feed this speculation if you do indeed believe Jesus is God.

JW's point to the Bible too so that is not an answer.

PennEd shows up, makes an accusation, then demands answers. Why should I answer him?

I mean, he's already got it all figured out in his own mind. He says I'm a heretic, says I crave attention, makes accusations, and threatens me that it won't go away until I answer. I don't owe him any deference. The Bible also says flee from what is evil.

 

[shittim]

Not sure about prior conversations, I have to wonder why you cannot just answer Yes or No, are you being defensive or is it because you are hiding your understanding of scripture and not want to get banned?

I can not understand why you would want to feed this speculation if you do indeed believe Jesus is God.

JW's point to the Bible too so that is not an answer.

JW's "wrote" there own "bible" that twists the scripture, and was not in existence when Charles Taze Russell started the cult.

 

[HeIsHere]

PennEd shows up, makes an accusation, then demands answers. Why should I answer him?

I mean, he's already got it all figured out in his own mind. He says I'm a heretic, says I crave attention, makes accusations, and threatens me that it won't go away until I answer. I don't owe him any deference. The Bible also says flee from what is evil.

Fair enough, agree, he is not a moderator from what I can see.

 

[HeIsHere]

Beautiful exegesis bro......

So the "false" in Christ will rise first?

 

[Runningman]

Fair enough, agree, he is not a moderator from what I can see.

I've never been approached by a moderator asking me about anything, never been warned, never been told to stop something.

On the other hand, there's been no shortage of people who have been rude and offensive to me one moment then the next moment command me to give them what they ask for. Information is valuable here. There's clearly a "good ole boys club" and then there is everyone else.

My final recommendation to everyone in this thread and on this board: you are entitled to block me if you don't like me, but don't harass me again. I do not use the report button at all, but maybe I'll start. That is all.

 

[HeIsHere]

If my faith remained alone (barren of works) then it would be a dead faith. Does faith produce works in order to become a living faith or because it's a living faith? Does a tree produce fruit in order to become a living tree or because it's a living tree.

So are those "dead in Christ" who rise first barren of good works?

 

[HeIsHere]

I've never been approached by a moderator asking me about anything, never been warned, never been told to stop something.

On the other hand, there's been no shortage of people who have been rude and offensive to me one moment then the next moment command me to give them what they ask for. Information is valuable here. There's clearly a "good ole boys club" and then there is everyone else.

My final recommendation to everyone in this thread and on this board: you are entitled to block me if you don't like me, but don't harass me again. I do not use the report button, but maybe I'll start. That is all.

There is a "club" no doubt and they can be nasty.

Too much "Augustine" pretty sad really because Augustine was wrong on many things and he weaponized scripture verses much like we see on here.

 

[PennEd]

Fair enough, agree, he is not a moderator from what I can see.

No. I’m not a mod, and never claimed to be.

There is a myriad of issues that good Christians can debate and disagree on. Like what this thread is about.

Runningman has a number of kooky theological ideas that I think he’s wrong on, that doesn’t rise to the level of whether or not Jesus is God.

Why would I even ask him if he didn’t intimate that Jesus is NOT God?

Go back, to my earlier post today where I link just one of threads where he does it.

It’s too serious a matter to play these games.

Jesus being God is not only a tenet that is mandatory for this site, but more importantly, is a vital component to THE Gospel unto Salvation.

So there’s only a couple reasons why he wouldn’t just answer the question. And BTW, notice his continual non answer answer. “ I believe what the Bible says”, all the while twisting what the Bible says.

He can just shut us up once and for all by answering yes or no to Jesus being God.

Or he keeps the ball rolling because he eats the attention like candy. Or he knows if he answers truthfully, he’ll be banned.

But I expect him to continue the “woe is me, everyone attacks me” diversion, rather than just answering.

 

[HeIsHere]

No. I’m not a mod, and never claimed to be.

There is a myriad of issues that good Christians can debate and disagree on. Like what this thread is about.

Runningman has a number of kooky theological ideas that I think he’s wrong on, that doesn’t rise to the level of whether or not Jesus is God.

Why would I even ask him if he didn’t intimate that Jesus is NOT God?

Go back, to my earlier post today where I link just one of threads where he does it.

It’s too serious a matter to play these games.

Jesus being God is not only a tenet that is mandatory for this site, but more importantly, is a vital component to THE Gospel unto Salvation.

So there’s only a couple reasons why he wouldn’t just answer the question. And BTW, notice his continual non answer answer. “ I believe what the Bible says”, all the while twisting what the Bible says.

He can just shut us up once and for all by answering yes or no to Jesus being God.

Or he keeps the ball rolling because he eats the attention like candy. Or he knows if he answers truthfully, he’ll be banned.

But I expect him to continue the “woe is me, everyone attacks me” diversion, rather than just answering.

I understand what you are saying but people get very defensive when the exchanges get heated.

and honestly I should stay out of it, and wish I could delete my posts, because I have not read the prior exchanges.

I do think it can be a bit "clicky" here, I guess it is only an issue if you take the interactions too seriously.

If you can, I am curious to know in which thread this took place? Not affirming the divinity of Christ is a huge red flag but I should read it for myself before I make any conclusions.

I would be curious to read it because there are many things he holds to that are absolutely wrong, especially about Faith + Works and salvation not being eternal, but then there are the outlier ideas I do have some agreement.

 

[mailmandan]

Tell me to whom is James writing?

Let's see if this position that prevails which in churches and the internet holds out with careful analysis.

Are you a dispensationalist?