Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[ForestGreenCook]

All men may hear and believe, but all do not believe (John 3:14-18). So you too have a gross misunderstanding of salvation.

This saying in John 3:14-18 is taken from Numbers 21:5-9. Israel (God's people) spak against God, and against Moses, and because of the disobedience of Israel, God sent poison snakes from the sky that would bite, and kill them. God instructed Moses to make a brass snake upon a pole, that when the people of Israel got bit, if they would look upon the poll they would be healed.

The brass serpent wrapped around a pole, is the emblem use by doctors and health care people to refer to healing.

Christ is the great physhion. When spiritual Israel looks to him for repentance, they are healed.

John 3:16 is the world of believers that God loves. Are the following worlds, the same world that God loves in John 3:16?

John 15:18-19 - If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me, before it hated you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own; but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

John 16:19-20 - Now Jesus knew that they were desirous to ask him, and said unto them. Do you inquire among yourselves of that I said, a little while, and ye shall not see me, and again, a little while and ye shall see me? Verly, verly, I say unto you that ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice, and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow will be turned into joy.John 17:9 - I I pray for them, I pray not for the world, but for them that thou hast given me, for they are thine.

 

[Magenta]

So Adam made everyone a sinner against their will but Jesus couldn’t make everyone righteous against their will?

Who is greater: Adam or Jesus? Evil or goodness? Dark or light? Wickedness or righteousness? That’s my point, a valid one at that.

I really hope you know the answers to these questions.

Your point is not valid just like your objective was not valid.

"Your objective is to figure how Christ was tempted in all ways as we are, as a newborn infant, and yet without sin."

Men are born of the natural and are in need of a Spiritual rebirth to be reconciled to God and escape the second death.

1 Corinthians 15:45-49 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being;” the last Adam a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual, however, was not first, but the natural, and then the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so also are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so also shall we bear the likeness of the heavenly man.

I really hope you stop denying this.

 

[Runningman]

Your point is not valid just like your objective was not valid.

"Your objective is to figure how Christ was tempted in all ways as we are, as a newborn infant, and yet without sin."

Men are born of the natural and are in need of a Spiritual rebirth to be reconciled to God and escape the second death.

1 Corinthians 15:45-49 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being;” the last Adam a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual, however, was not first, but the natural, and then the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so also are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so also shall we bear the likeness of the heavenly man.

I really hope you stop denying this.

My point is valid and follows the Bible.

One is only a sinner once they sin even if by nature they are inclined toward sin. An inclination isn’t a sin; that’s being in Adam, but it doesn’t make someone incapable of doing anything good.

The same is true for those in Christ, born again of God’s Spirit, inclined toward righteousness, still capable of sinning, but access to forgiveness and grace.

Your total depravity doctrine, as much as you seem to think you don’t adhere to it, is false and has been debunked with scripture.

Babies aren’t sinners straightaway upon birth.

 

[Magenta]

My point is valid and follows the Bible.

One is only a sinner once they sin even if by nature they are inclined toward sin. An inclination isn’t a sin; that’s being in Adam, but it doesn’t make someone incapable of doing anything good.

The same is true for those in Christ, born again of God’s Spirit, inclined toward righteousness, still capable of sinning, but access to forgiveness and grace.

Your total depravity doctrine, as much as you seem to think you don’t adhere to it, is false and has been debunked with scripture.

Babies aren’t sinners straightaway upon birth.

Denying that man is born in a state that requires a Spiritual rebirth in order to be reconciled to God and escape the second death is not a valid position to take no matter how hard you try to divert away from the topic with all your "babies can't sin" and bringing total depravity into it. Those are more logical fallacies from you. Scripture teaches -in the words of Jesus no less- that you must be born again. Scripture also teaches it is by grace through faith in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ to pay the sin debt on our behalf that we partake of the life only He can offer, since He is Life. Denying this shows you haven't a clue about why Jesus sacrificed Himself as was God's plan from before the foundation of the world, as is taught in Scripture, and the reason for His incarnation.

 

[Runningman]

Denying that man is born in a state that requires a Spiritual rebirth in order to be reconciled to God and escape the second death is not a valid position to take no matter how hard you try to divert away from the topic with all your "babies can't sin" and bringing total depravity into it. Those are more logical fallacies from you. Scripture teaches -in the words of Jesus no less- that you must be born again. Scripture also teaches it is by grace through faith in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ to pay the sin debt on our behalf that we partake of the life only He can offer, since He is Life. Denying this shows you haven't a clue about why Jesus sacrificed Himself as was God's plan from before the foundation of the world, as is taught in Scripture, and the reason for His incarnation.

Then it’s even more abundantly clear you have no business talking about this. You simply have misunderstood what the Bible says. Your original sin theology is from the Catholics.

Here’s what it’s actually like:

Romans 9
11Yet before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad, in order that God’s plan of election might stand,

That’s quite clear. Being inside a woman's womb versus being outside means a baby hasn’t done anything good or bad. That means they are without sin up until they sin.

One is guilty of sin when they are tempted and give into it. That’s all in James.

Individuals become sinners when they break God’s law. 1 John 3.

Sin isn’t inherited. Ezekiel 18.

Very plain, very clear.

The greatest and gravest deception in your doctrine is that is makes Adam and sin more powerful than Christ and righteousness. I’m not getting near that with a 10 foot pole!

 

[posthuman]

If you're saying all people are sinners because of Adam then it must be equally true that all people have grace and righteousness because of Jesus Christ.

not at all.

the basis of our being in Adam is having been born as human beings.

the basis of our being in Christ is faith. or, if you like ((some really, really don't like)) - having been given to Him by the Father.

at any rate being sons of Adam is universal among humankind by virtue of simply being human with an earthly father. the universal set.
but being sons of God, since it is not by physical birth but spiritual, is necessarily a subset.

there is no universal salvation. but there is universal need of salvation: all have sinned ((Romans 3:23)) and through one man, Adam, sin and death entered all ((Romans 5:12))

see! there really is more to Romans than two verses of chapter 2! ha!

 

[posthuman]

is makes Adam and sin more powerful than Christ and righteousness.

um, i dunno if you've ever done laundry or vacuumed a floor or had a child, but it's a whole lot easier to get dirty than it is to get clean.

so if ya wanna talk about measuring what is superlative power...

((puts on mathematician hat))

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

So Adam made everyone a sinner against their will but Jesus couldn’t make everyone righteous against their will?

Who is greater: Adam or Jesus? Evil or goodness? Dark or light? Wickedness or righteousness? That’s my point, a valid one at that.

I really hope you know the answers to these questions.

Free Will!!

Free Will led to generational SIN that God designed.

Free Will to accept Christ and His work upon the Cross led to Eternal Life just like God designed.

God designed Free Will to remain in generational SIN or to CHOOSE Christ.

God made it a CHOICE because He wants those who LOVE HIM.

Those who love sin remain in sin.

Those who love God remain in God.

 

[PennEd]

Then it’s even more abundantly clear you have no business talking about this. You simply have misunderstood what the Bible says. Your original sin theology is from the Catholics.

Here’s what it’s actually like:

Romans 9
11Yet before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad, in order that God’s plan of election might stand,

That’s quite clear. Being inside a woman's womb versus being outside means a baby hasn’t done anything good or bad. That means they are without sin up until they sin.

One is guilty of sin when they are tempted and give into it. That’s all in James.

Individuals become sinners when they break God’s law. 1 John 3.

Sin isn’t inherited. Ezekiel 18.

Very plain, very clear.

The greatest and gravest deception in your doctrine is that is makes Adam and sin more powerful than Christ and righteousness. I’m not getting near that with a 10 foot pole!

Man, you’ve got some warped theology!

As warped as most of your stuff is, just can’t get past your heresy that Jesus isn’t God. Amazing you have survived here this long with that one alone.

 

[Runningman]

Man, you’ve got some warped theology!

As warped as most of your stuff is, just can’t get past your heresy that Jesus isn’t God. Amazing you have survived here this long with that one alone.

I’ve survived here because I’ve never said that. Meanwhile, my false accusers flourish. Keep doing it, I honestly don’t care what y’all say, which is why I haven’t tried to prevent you. I just keep pushing forward and always will. Enjoy my dude!

and for the record, this is a Bible discussion forum. We need to be able to discuss things without nastiness coming from the usual suspects. Examining information and counter arguments is helpful; I’m into apologetics. If you don’t know what your opposition thinks and believes you’ll never understand them, but maybe that isn’t a problem for you. Meanwhile, I think it’s important.

 

[Runningman]

Free Will!!

Free Will led to generational SIN that God designed.

Free Will to accept Christ and His work upon the Cross led to Eternal Life just like God designed.

God designed Free Will to remain in generational SIN or to CHOOSE Christ.

God made it a CHOICE because He wants those who LOVE HIM.

Those who love sin remain in sin.

Those who love God remain in God.

Free will is being born a sinner but free will is not being born saved? I don’t know if that’s what you’re saying, but you said it’s free will in reply to my comment.

I see people are born inclined toward a sinful nature, but not born actually breaking God’s laws. In like manner, no one is born saved either.

Through Christ our spirit is reborn. This means that our inclination is toward righteousness.

I’m not sure why no one in this thread seems to understand this. It’s like they never learned it. Isn’t it obvious? Aren’t you born again?

 

[ThewindBlows]

I’ve survived here because I’ve never said that. Meanwhile, my false accusers flourish. Keep doing it, I honestly don’t care what y’all say, which is why I haven’t tried to prevent you. I just keep pushing forward and always will. Enjoy my dude!

and for the record, this is a Bible discussion forum. We need to be able to discuss things without nastiness coming from the usual suspects. Examining information and counter arguments is helpful; I’m into apologetics. If you don’t know what your opposition thinks and believes you’ll never understand them, but maybe that isn’t a problem for you. Meanwhile, I think it’s important.

Its not apologetics when you refuse to answer questions, So why not answer and clear it up, Do you think Jesus is God?

 

[PennEd]

I’ve survived here because I’ve never said that.

I have repeatedly asked you to simply say, with a yes or no, if Jesus Christ is God in the flesh.

Why would I even ask the question unless you posted that position without coming right out and saying it?


I'll ask again, Is Jesus Christ God Himself in the flesh. Give as long an answer as you like as long as the first word is a yes or no.

 

[PennEd]

There's a bunch of other threads where Runningman, without saying the actual words, JESUS IS NOT GOD, argues that Jesus isn't. He says he believes in the Trinity, but NOT the Trinity that Christians believe in.

God, according to him, lent Jesus His Powers while he was on Earth. You can read starting on page 3 for yourself. And then tell me if this guy believes Jesus is God:

Jesus is God - Christian Chat Rooms & Forums

 

[Runningman]

I have repeatedly asked you to simply say, with a yes or no, if Jesus Christ is God in the flesh.

Why would I even ask the question unless you posted that position without coming right out and saying it?


I'll ask again, Is Jesus Christ God Himself in the flesh. Give as long an answer as you like as long as the first word is a yes or no.

Shoot first, ask questions later. That's not going to get you very far.

Go dig through my comment history for your answer. If you did, you wouldn't be saying what you are. So it doesn't matter what I tell you and I'm certainly not going to entertain you. Work on PennEd, don't worry about me.

 

[ResidentAlien]

There's a bunch of other threads where Runningman, without saying the actual words, JESUS IS NOT GOD, argues that Jesus isn't. He says he believes in the Trinity, but NOT the Trinity that Christians believe in.

God, according to him, lent Jesus His Powers while he was on Earth. You can read starting on page 3 for yourself. And then tell me if this guy believes Jesus is God:

Jesus is God - Christian Chat Rooms & Forums

Runningman has found the right formula to bait people and keep his name on the front burner. Whatever gets a reaction this week, that's what he's about. LOL

 

[Runningman]

There's a bunch of other threads where Runningman, without saying the actual words, JESUS IS NOT GOD, argues that Jesus isn't. He says he believes in the Trinity, but NOT the Trinity that Christians believe in.

God, according to him, lent Jesus His Powers while he was on Earth. You can read starting on page 3 for yourself. And then tell me if this guy believes Jesus is God:

Jesus is God - Christian Chat Rooms & Forums

Cool thread, let's start another just like it?

Bro, you're chasing ghosts.

 

[Runningman]

Runningman has found the right formula to bait people and keep his name on the front burner. Whatever gets a reaction this week, that's what he's about. LOL

It's more like with every post I make, I have people literally scrutinizing every dot, every i, every t, just to find something, anything, to contradict me. Yesterday, someone dug up a thread from late last year just to try to prove something I said was wrong. LoL. That's the level of pettiness I'm working with here.

Now PennEd is digging through my posts, too. Let's just be plain about something: they would love nothing more than to nail down anything I said that's wrong and they probably want me removed from the forum as well.

This has gotten bad. I think in one day some 4 or 5 people falsely accused me of calling God a liar, I've been told I'm demon possessed, someone entertained the idea of martyring me, someone said I would murder Jesus if I was alive back then, been told I'm going to hell, been told I've blasphemed the Holy Spirit, been called a liar, you name it! Don't you think the spiritual warfare is coming from them?

 

[mailmandan]

Does anyone need to borrow this?

 

[Runningman]

Its not apologetics when you refuse to answer questions, So why not answer and clear it up, Do you think Jesus is God?

Hi TWB, thanks for always being kind in your words to me. I actually do remember these things because when people are nice to me, it stands out in stark contrast to the surrounding darkness. I don't forget that! Thank you.

While I don't mind answering questions, I don't want to answer it because, at this point, that would only give satisfaction to my accusers. They will only return later to accuse me of something else. I've been here for almost 3 years now, it's a continuous cycle with the same exact people.