Do you observe the Sabbath?

[Inquisitor]

How about we chock this thread up to this:

If you earnestly don't want to keep the Sabbath then don't. Currently, even though it is a requirement, your disbelief in it wouldn't be helpful or pleasing to God. Without faith it is impossible to please God. If you come to a place of maturity and find that Sabbath keeping is for you because you believe it honors God to keep His 10 commandments, then do it, absolutely.

A simple verse instructs me not to touch the law.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under the Law but under grace.

I will always be under grace and never under the law.

I cannot be judged according to the law because I am not under the law.

The sabbath is meaningless to me, as is circumcision, food laws, health laws, e.t.c.

 

[mailmandan]

See how you added to what i said then used it against me..
I said the 10 commandments have not changed.
And i stand by that.
I didn't say the old covenant did not change or the civils laws of Israel have not changed.

You cannot separate compliance with specific regulations that went along with keeping the sabbath day holy for the Israelites and still call it keeping the sabbath day holy. Simply resting on the sabbath day is only one regulation out of many regulations. (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31) There are no "Burger King" sabbaths. You "can't have it your way" with the sabbath.

 

[mailmandan]

The sabbath law that i keep is the 4th commandment.

It is not all the cerimonial laws and civil laws.

What part of the sabbath law do i not keep. If the law is what God spoke from heaven. And what Jesus spoke in His example and words. Exo 20:8-11
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

So only this aspect of keeping the sabbath day holy is a moral law for ALL to keep for all time and everything else associated with sabbath keeping beyond this is a ceremonial or civil law? Is that what you actually believe? Where is this command for the body of Christ in the NT?

So ignore who Exodus 20 was being addressed to in verse 2 - I am the Lord your God, who brought YOU out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. Also go ahead and ignore And remember that YOU were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded YOU to keep the Sabbath day. Who is YOU?

Also ignore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant and it is a sign between Me and the children of Israel.." in Deuteronomy 5:15 and have it YOUR way.

 

[ItsAdventageous]

So only this aspect of keeping the sabbath day holy is a moral law for ALL to keep for all time and everything else associated with sabbath keeping beyond this is a ceremonial or civil law? Is that what you actually believe? Where is this command for the body of Christ in the NT?

So ignore who Exodus 20 was being addressed to in verse 2 - I am the Lord your God, who brought YOU out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. Also go ahead and ignore And remember that YOU were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded YOU to keep the Sabbath day. Who is YOU?

Also ignore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant and it is a sign between Me and the children of Israel.." in Deuteronomy 5:15 and have it YOUR way.

Yes! For Israel and His children. I agree!

Who is the real Israel, and His children?

The Real and True Israel, and His children. The Sabbath of the LORD is a sign between the LORD and Israel, and Israel’s children, forever; a perpetual covenant.

In Exodus 31:12-17 KJB, we read that God said that,

“(12) And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, (13) Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you. (14) Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. (15) Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. (16) Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. (17) It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.”

Yet, according to the Scripture (KJB), who is the real and true Israel, and who are His children that ought keep the Sabbath of the LORD?

Jesus and His Disciples:

Jesus is the Real and True “Israel” (Romans 9:6-8), the “Israel of God” (Galatians 6:16), for we read (KJB) in Matthew 2:13-15,19-21; Hosea 11:1 that Jesus is identified by the Father, through the Holy Spirit who inspired Matthew to cite Hosea 11:1 as being truly fulfilled by Jesus, who is named “Israel” (and no marvel for Jesus is also named, “Adam” (1 Corinthians 15:45-47), “David” (Jeremiah 30:9; Ezekiel 34:23-24, 37:24-25; Hosea 3:5), ‘Solomon’ (“Prince of Peace” (Isaiah 9:6), “son of David” (Matthew 1:1; Luke 3:31, &c.)) , “Levi” (Malachi 2:4-7), and many others, for all the scriptures testify of Jesus (John 5:39; Luke 24:27; Psalms 40:7; Hebrews 10:7; Acts 3:18)). Jesus is the Real and True “overcomer” (John 16:33; Revelation 3:21) and “Prince” (Isaiah 9:6; Daniel 8:11,25, 9:25, 10:13,21, 11:22, 12:1; Acts 3:15, 5:31; Revelation 1:5) with God His Father, which is what the name “Israel” means (Genesis 32:28, 35:10). Jesus is the very “elect” (Isaiah 42:1; Matthew 12:18; 1 Peter 2:6) of the Father, in whom all the promises of God the Father find their realization and true fulfillment (2 Corinthians 1:20; Psalms 2:8, 116:14,18). Jesus is the “Lord” over His own house, whose house are Christians/Disciples (Psalms 98:3; Hebrews 3:6; Jeremiah 31:33).

Since Jesus is the Real and True Israel, who then are His children?

The disciples of Jesus are His Real and True children, given Him by the Father (John 13:33; Hebrews 2:13, citing Isaiah 8:16,18 in context of Isaiah 8:8-20, “Immanuel”, “God with us”, “sanctuary”, “stone”, “rock”, “LORD of Hosts”). Just as the Jacob/Israel after the flesh had the 12 patriarchs (Genesis 35:22), so too Jesus has the 12 Apostles (Matthew 10:2; Luke 6:13, 22:14; Revelation 21:14), and all whom they taught, the number of whom is as the “sand of the sea” (Isaiah 10:22). Though there was a “natural” “Israel”, “after the flesh”, Jesus is the Real and True “spiritual” (1 Corinthians 15:45-47) “Israel”, “of God”, “after the Spirit” (Romans 8:4). For the Law of God (Ten Commandments, including the Sabbath of the LORD, Exodus 20:1-17) is “spiritual” (Romans 7:14), and can only be kept by the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit (Jeremiah 31:31-34; Hebrews 8:8-13, 10:16; Ezekiel 11:19-20, 36:22-38, 37:26-28; 2 Corinthians 3:3,6). There, “remaineth therefore a rest (sabbatismos, Sabbath keeping in spirit and in truth; John 4:23-24; Isaiah 66:22-23; Revelation 14:6-12) to the people of God” (Hebrews 4:9; Hebrews 4:1-12; Matthew 11:28; Exodus 33:14), and because they love Him who first loved them, they keep His commandments (John 14:15; Exodus 20:6; Revelation 12:17, 14:7,12; Exodus 20:11), which are not grievous (1 John 5:3), especially the Sabbath which was “made for” (Mark 2:27) Him/them (Colossians 1:16; 1 Timothy 2:5; 1 Corinthians 15:45-47), never being ‘against’ Him/them; being “light” (Proverbs 6:23; Isaiah 8:20, 51:4), never a shadow; fulfilled in grace/mercy (Exodus20:2,6), thus to be kept holy by all in Christ Jesus in the everlasting covenant (Isaiah 56:1,8; John 10:16; Isaiah 56:2-7).

“Israel”, “after the flesh” (1 Corinthians 10:18), as a ‘nation’ (individuals can still be saved if they call upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ), is left “desolate” (Matthew 23:38; Luke 13:35), failed to keep the sabbath of the LORD (Exodus 16:28, 20:12-13, 20-24; Numbers 15:32-41; Psalms 95:11; Hebrews 3:11, 4:3,5), being not mixed with faith (Hebrews 4:2; Romans 14:23), and are to bear no more “fruit” ever again (Matthew 21:19), being cursed, and withered away (Mark 11:21), dried up from the root (Mark 11:20), being “twice dead” (Jude 1:12), for the axe was already laid at their root (Matthew 3:10; Luke 3:9), and so was cut down, and thrown into the fire (Isaiah 9:14; John 15:6; Matthew 22:7; Luke 21:20), and will be so again in the lake of fire to come (Revelation 20:15, 21:8; 1 John 2:4).

 

[mailmandan]

Do you think we should steal today? Do you think we should commit adultery today? Or covert? Or take the Lords name in vain today?
These laws were given to Israel and they have laws to deal with people that don't obey.

Of course we should not steal or commit adultery or covet or take the Lord's name in vain today. As I have already previously explained multiple times, references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments are reiterated under the new covenant, yet the command to keep the sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 2:7
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

If you believe in not committing adultery today why don't you enforce ..
Lev 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
Or enforce taking the name of the Lord in vain?
Lev 24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the LORD, shall be put to death.
?????? How can you attact sabbath keeping and yet forget about all the laws you fail to fully enforce in the same way.

So why don't I enforce the death penalty for breaking these laws above? Because I am not an Israelite who is under the Law of Moses under the old covenant. You are still missing my point about rules and regulations (besides a death penalty for law breaking) that went along with keeping the sabbath day holy. Do not steal, do not commit adultery, do not covet or take the Lord's name in vain is pretty cut and dry and doesn't need multiple rules and regulations in order to comply with those commandments attached with it.

 

[mailmandan]

Yes! For Israel and His children. I agree!

Who is the real Israel, and His children?

The Real and True Israel, and His children. The Sabbath of the LORD is a sign between the LORD and Israel, and Israel’s children, forever; a perpetual covenant.

In Exodus 31:12-17 KJB, we read that God said that,

“(12) And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, (13) Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you. (14) Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. (15) Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. (16) Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. (17) It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.”

Yet, according to the Scripture (KJB), who is the real and true Israel, and who are His children that ought keep the Sabbath of the LORD?

Jesus and His Disciples:

Jesus is the Real and True “Israel” (Romans 9:6-8), the “Israel of God” (Galatians 6:16), for we read (KJB) in Matthew 2:13-15,19-21; Hosea 11:1 that Jesus is identified by the Father, through the Holy Spirit who inspired Matthew to cite Hosea 11:1 as being truly fulfilled by Jesus, who is named “Israel” (and no marvel for Jesus is also named, “Adam” (1 Corinthians 15:45-47), “David” (Jeremiah 30:9; Ezekiel 34:23-24, 37:24-25; Hosea 3:5), ‘Solomon’ (“Prince of Peace” (Isaiah 9:6), “son of David” (Matthew 1:1; Luke 3:31, &c.)) , “Levi” (Malachi 2:4-7), and many others, for all the scriptures testify of Jesus (John 5:39; Luke 24:27; Psalms 40:7; Hebrews 10:7; Acts 3:18)). Jesus is the Real and True “overcomer” (John 16:33; Revelation 3:21) and “Prince” (Isaiah 9:6; Daniel 8:11,25, 9:25, 10:13,21, 11:22, 12:1; Acts 3:15, 5:31; Revelation 1:5) with God His Father, which is what the name “Israel” means (Genesis 32:28, 35:10). Jesus is the very “elect” (Isaiah 42:1; Matthew 12:18; 1 Peter 2:6) of the Father, in whom all the promises of God the Father find their realization and true fulfillment (2 Corinthians 1:20; Psalms 2:8, 116:14,18). Jesus is the “Lord” over His own house, whose house are Christians/Disciples (Psalms 98:3; Hebrews 3:6; Jeremiah 31:33).

Since Jesus is the Real and True Israel, who then are His children?

The disciples of Jesus are His Real and True children, given Him by the Father (John 13:33; Hebrews 2:13, citing Isaiah 8:16,18 in context of Isaiah 8:8-20, “Immanuel”, “God with us”, “sanctuary”, “stone”, “rock”, “LORD of Hosts”). Just as the Jacob/Israel after the flesh had the 12 patriarchs (Genesis 35:22), so too Jesus has the 12 Apostles (Matthew 10:2; Luke 6:13, 22:14; Revelation 21:14), and all whom they taught, the number of whom is as the “sand of the sea” (Isaiah 10:22). Though there was a “natural” “Israel”, “after the flesh”, Jesus is the Real and True “spiritual” (1 Corinthians 15:45-47) “Israel”, “of God”, “after the Spirit” (Romans 8:4). For the Law of God (Ten Commandments, including the Sabbath of the LORD, Exodus 20:1-17) is “spiritual” (Romans 7:14), and can only be kept by the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit (Jeremiah 31:31-34; Hebrews 8:8-13, 10:16; Ezekiel 11:19-20, 36:22-38, 37:26-28; 2 Corinthians 3:3,6). There, “remaineth therefore a rest (sabbatismos, Sabbath keeping in spirit and in truth; John 4:23-24; Isaiah 66:22-23; Revelation 14:6-12) to the people of God” (Hebrews 4:9; Hebrews 4:1-12; Matthew 11:28; Exodus 33:14), and because they love Him who first loved them, they keep His commandments (John 14:15; Exodus 20:6; Revelation 12:17, 14:7,12; Exodus 20:11), which are not grievous (1 John 5:3), especially the Sabbath which was “made for” (Mark 2:27) Him/them (Colossians 1:16; 1 Timothy 2:5; 1 Corinthians 15:45-47), never being ‘against’ Him/them; being “light” (Proverbs 6:23; Isaiah 8:20, 51:4), never a shadow; fulfilled in grace/mercy (Exodus20:2,6), thus to be kept holy by all in Christ Jesus in the everlasting covenant (Isaiah 56:1,8; John 10:16; Isaiah 56:2-7).

“Israel”, “after the flesh” (1 Corinthians 10:18), as a ‘nation’ (individuals can still be saved if they call upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ), is left “desolate” (Matthew 23:38; Luke 13:35), failed to keep the sabbath of the LORD (Exodus 16:28, 20:12-13, 20-24; Numbers 15:32-41; Psalms 95:11; Hebrews 3:11, 4:3,5), being not mixed with faith (Hebrews 4:2; Romans 14:23), and are to bear no more “fruit” ever again (Matthew 21:19), being cursed, and withered away (Mark 11:21), dried up from the root (Mark 11:20), being “twice dead” (Jude 1:12), for the axe was already laid at their root (Matthew 3:10; Luke 3:9), and so was cut down, and thrown into the fire (Isaiah 9:14; John 15:6; Matthew 22:7; Luke 21:20), and will be so again in the lake of fire to come (Revelation 20:15, 21:8; 1 John 2:4).


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Spare me the long winded EISEGESIS. Are you a Seventh Day Adventist?

 

[Runningman]

A simple verse instructs me not to touch the law.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under the Law but under grace.

I will always be under grace and never under the law.

I cannot be judged according to the law because I am not under the law.

The sabbath is meaningless to me, as is circumcision, food laws, health laws, e.t.c.

You’re a perfect example of someone who shouldn’t keep the Sabbath, eager to believe isolated verses removed from the greater context to enable you to do so, while consistently avoiding/reinterpreting all information to the contrary.

We see this sort of thing all the time. Meanwhile, avoidance doesn’t equal justification. The commandment will stand in direct opposition to your religion.

Hebrews 4:9
9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;

 

[ItsAdventageous]

4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17

Such a mistake to make, to confuse the carnal and spiritual:

The Sabbath of the LORD thy God (JEHOVAH Elohiym) - The 7th Day - The Lord's day - Who, What, When, Where, Why, & How? Part 06

QUESTION: DOESN’T COLOSSIANS 2:14-16 TELL US THAT ALL SABBATHS ARE JUST A SHADOW, AND THAT AS CHRISTIANS, WE DON’T NEED TO WORRY ABOUT THAT COMMAND?

No. See COLOSSIANS 2:14-16 – https://archive.org/details/colossians-2vs-14-16-nutshell-image

and See COLOSSIANS 2 POWERPOINT – https://archive.org/details/colossians-2vs-16

Col. 2:16 – Plural sabbaths, “σαββατων” (G4521), NGPN

Context: “shadow”, “ordinances”, “against”, “carnal”, “worldly sanctuary”, “things to come”

[1.] 7th day made for man before sin of man & need of type/shadow (Mark 2:27; Col. 1:16)

[2.] 7th day is an eternal memorial, pointing backwards, “Remember” (Exo. 20:8)

[3.] 7th day is singular and specific (“the”, “ה”, “ha”) (Exo. 20:8,10,11)

[4.] 7th day differs from yearly, 7th year, & 50th year festal types (Lev. 23:3,4,38, “Besides”), as they festal types are governed by “moons”, not so the 7th day, being light (Pro. 6:23)

[5.] 7th day is called, “the sabbath of the LORD” (Exo. 20:8-11), & “My [God’s, His] sabbaths” (Isa. 56:4; Eze. 20:20), as opposed to theirs, called “your sabbaths” (Lev. 26:34,35), & “her sabbaths” (Lev. 26:34,43; 2 Chr. 26:31; Lam. 1:7; Hos. 2:11)

[6.] 7th day is a “commandment” (Luke 23:54,56), never of the “ordinances” (Col. 2:14,20)

[7.] Col. 2, speaks of “sins” (Col. 2:13), being “transgression of the law” (1 John 3:4), of which the 4th Commandment (Exo. 20:8-11) is central, whereas the yearly [of years] festal sabbaths are not in the Ten Commandments, but given later under Levitical priesthood (Heb. 7:11) because of sin

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Temporary

Eternal & Everlasting

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“ordinances” [ie. Passover, &c.] – Col. 2:14

“Ten Commandments” – Exo. 34:28; Deut. 4:13, 10:4

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“carnal” [sacrifices, flesh is nailed to cross] – Heb. 9:10

“spiritual” [obedience; cannot be nailed to a cross] – Rom. 7:14, “the words … are spirit … life” – John 6:63

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“worldly” – Heb. 9:1

“heaven” – Exo. 20:22

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“shadow” – Col. 2:17

“light” – Pro. 6:23; Isa. 8:20, 51:4; Psa. 119:105

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“against us”, “contrary to us” – Col. 2:14

“the sabbath was made for [the] man” – Mark 2:27;
“the first man Adam … [&] the last Adam [Jesus]” – 1 Cor. 15:45;
“the second man is the Lord from Heaven” – 1 Cor. 15:47;
“all things were made … for him [Jesus]” – Col. 1:16
“Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid” – Gal. 3:21

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“to come” [future] – Col. 2:16; Eph. 2:17; Heb. 9:11, 10:1

“Remember” [memorial, past] – Exo. 20:8

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Paul reveals Jesus Christ died (Col. 2:12), by Crucifixion (Col. 2:14), to forgive us our sins (Col. 2:11-13).

“hand of Moses”: Lev. 8:36, 10:11, 26:46; Num. 4:37,45,49, 9:23, 10:13, 15:23, 16:40, 27:23, 36:13; Jos. 14:2, 20:2, 21:2,8, 22:9; Judg. 3:4; 1 Kin. 8:53,56; 2 Chr. 33:8, 35:6 (“ordinance”, Num. 9:12; Eze. 43:18); Neh. 9:14

Col. 2:16 [Paul] is citing Psa. 98:1-3 & Eze. 45:17, both of which follow the main pattern set in Num. 28-29:

Lev. 23:1-44, 25:1-22; Num. 28:1-31; 1 Chr. 23:31; 2 Chr. 2:4, 8:13, 31:3; Neh. 10:33; Isa. 1:13-14 (Isa. unique, a parallelism within itself); Eze. 45:17, 46:1-11; Hos. 2:11, and see also Gal. 4:10; Col. 2:16.

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Eze. 45, Col. 2, Eph. 2, Heb. 9-10 language comparison

Eze. 33:10 – “our sins … we pine away … how should we then live?”

Col. 2:13 – “you, being dead in your sins … hath he quickened together with him [Jesus]”

Eph. 2:5 – “we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ” Eze. 43:11,18, 44:5, 45:14, 46:14 – “ordinance”

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Col. 2:14 – “ordinances”

Eph. 2:15 – “in ordinances”

Heb. 9:1 – “ordinances of divine service”

Heb. 9:10 – “carnal ordinances”

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Eze. 45:17 – “meat offerings, drink offerings”

Col. 2:16 – “in meat, or in drink” [offerings]

Heb. 9:10 – “meats and drinks” [offerings]

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Col. 2:16 – “a shadow of things to come”

Eph. 2:7 – “in the ages to come”

Heb. 9:11 – “of good things to come”

Heb. 10:1 – “the law having a shadow of good things to come”, “those sacrifices”, “offered year by year”

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Eze. 45:17 – “feasts, … new moons … sabbaths”

Col. 2:16 – “an holyday … new moon … sabbath [days]”

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Col. 2:12 – “also ye are risen with him”

Eph. 2:6 – “raised us up together”

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Col. 2:2 – “riches”

Col. 2:3 – “treasures”

Eph. 2:7 – “riches”

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Col. 2:14 – “the handwriting of ordinances”

Eph. 2:15 – “the law of commandments contained in ordinances”

Heb. 9:19 – “Moses ... to the law ... blood ... book”

Heb. 9:22 – “by the law ... with blood”

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Col. 2:11 – “of the flesh”

Col. 2:13 – “flesh”

Eph. 2:3 – “flesh ... the flesh”

Eph. 2:11 – “in the flesh”

Eph. 2:15 – “in his flesh”

Heb. 9:13 – “flesh”

Heb. 10:20 – “his flesh” Col. 2:11 – “putting off the body of the sins”

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Heb. 9:26 – “put away sin”

Heb. 10:4 – “take away sins”

Heb. 10:9 – “He taketh away the first”

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Heb. 9:9 – “was a figure”

Heb. 9:23 – “the patterns”

Heb. 9:24 – “the figures”

Heb. 10:1 – “not the very image of the things"

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Some say the “handwriting of ordinances” is the record of sin (sin debt), but is that correct?

The words “χειρογραφον τοις δογμασιν” never mean ‘certificate of debt’ in scripture:

χειρογραφον [cheirographon] – G5498 N-ASN (cheiro: hand - 89; hands - 90) (graphon: written - 121, write - 50, wrote - 21, describeth – 1, writing – 1)

τοις [tois] – G3588 T-DPN (generally definite article, means: of, the, which, &c)

δογμασιν [dogmasin] – G1378 N-DPN (decrees - Luke 2:1; Acts 16:4, 17:7) (ordinances - Eph. 2:15; Col. 2:14,20)

Ordinances (12x - Exo. 12:14,17,43, 13:10; Num. 9:14 (x2), 10:8, 15:15 (x2), 19:2, 31:21; Eze. 46:14)

Ordinance 10x – (Lev. 18:3-4 (x2); Num. 9:12; Job 38:33; Jer. 31:35, 33:25; Eze. 43:11 (x2),18, 44:5 (see also “rites” (Num. 9:2-3)),

“ceremonies[ial laws]” 5x – (Jos. 24:25 (x2); 1 Sam. 30:25; 2 Chr. 35:13; Isa. 58:2 6x – 2 Kin. 17:34,37; 2 Chr. 33:8; Psa. 119:91; Isa. 58:2; Eze. 11:20

Ordinances 12x - (Exo. 12:14,17,43, 13:10; Lev. 8:4; Num. 9:14 (x2), 10:8, 15:15 (x2), 19:2, 31:21; Eze. 46:14),

Ordinance 10x - Lev. 18:30; Num. 9:14 (x2), 10:8, 15:15 (x2), 19:2, 32:21; Eze. 46:14)

 

[ItsAdventageous]

4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17

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[1.] Daily

[continual]

Num. 28:1-8, - “continual”, “day by day” the daily offerings

Eze. 45:17 - meat & drink offerings

Col. 2:16 - meat & drink [offerings]

Isa. 1:13-14 - oblations, incense

Hos. 2:11 - her mirth, see Neh. 8:12

Gal. 4:10 - days

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[2.] Weekly [never last]

Num. 28:9-10 KJB, - is the “every sabbath” on “the sabbath day” [weekly offerings]

It states “the sabbath day”, and “every sabbath”, literally “sabbath to sabbath”

[Num. 28:10 HOT Translit. - shaBat B'shaBaTô, see Isa. 66:23 HOT Translit. - shaBät B'shaBaTô]

The weekly sabbath is not listed in Eze. 45:17; Col. 2:16; Isa. 1:13-14; Hos. 2:11; Gal. 4:10.

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[3.] Monthly

[or seasons

Num. 28:11-15, - is the “beginnings of your months”, “every month” [offerings]

Eze. 45:17 - new moons

Col. 2:16 - new moon

Isa. 1:13-14 - Your new moons

Hos. 2:11 - her new moons

Gal. 4:10 - months

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[4.] Seasonal [or Month]

Num. 28:16-25, 26-31, 29:1-6, 7-11, 12-40 - feasts

Eze. 45:17 - feasts

Col. 2:16 - an holy day

Isa. 1:13-14 - appointed feasts

Hos. 2:11 - her feast days

Gal. 4:10 - times, αιρους

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[5.] Yearly [of Years]

Num. 28:16-31, 29:1-40 [Lev. 23 & 25] - the yearly sabbaths & offerings of it

Eze. 45:17 - in the sabbaths

Col. 2:16 - sabbath [days]

Isa. 1:13-14 - sabbaths, appointed feasts

Hos. 2:11 - her sabbaths

Gal. 4:10 - years

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Albert Barnes [Presbyterian]:

“... Or of the Sabbath days - Greek, “of the Sabbaths.” The word Sabbath in the Old Testament is applied not only to the seventh day, but to all the days of holy rest that were observed by the Hebrews, and particularly to the beginning and close of their great festivals. There is, doubtless, reference to those days in this place, since the word is used in the plural number, and the apostle does not refer particularly to the Sabbath properly so called. There is no evidence from this passage that he would teach that there was no obligation to observe any holy time, for there is not the slightest reason to believe that he meant to teach that one of the ten commandments had ceased to be binding on mankind. If he had used the word in the singular number - “the Sabbath,” it would then, of course, have been clear that he meant to teach that that commandment had ceased to be binding, and that a Sabbath was no longer to be observed. But the use of the term in the plural number, and the connection, show that he had his eye on the great number of days which were observed by the Hebrews as festivals, as a part of their ceremonial and typical law, and not to the moral law, or the Ten Commandments. No part of the moral law - no one of the ten commandments could be spoken of as “a shadow of good things to come.” These commandments are, from the nature of moral law, of perpetual and universal obligation. ...”

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Adam Clarke [Methodist]:

“... There is no intimation here that the Sabbath was done away, or that its moral use was superseded, by the introduction of Christianity. I have shown elsewhere that, Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, is a command of perpetual obligation, and can never be superseded but by the final termination of time. ...”

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Jamieson, Fausset and Brown [theologians]:

“... the sabbath — Omit “THE,” which is not in the Greek (compare Note, see on Gal_4:10). “SABBATHS” (not “the sabbaths”) of the day of atonement and feast of tabernacles have come to an end with the Jewish services to which they belonged (Lev_23:32, Lev_23:37-39). The weekly sabbath rests on a more permanent foundation, having been instituted in Paradise to commemorate the completion of creation in six days. Lev_23:38 expressly distinguished “the sabbath of the Lord” from the other sabbaths. A positive precept is right because it is commanded, and ceases to be obligatory when abrogated; a moral precept is commanded eternally, because it is eternally right. If we could keep a perpetual sabbath, as we shall hereafter, the positive precept of the sabbath, one in each week, would not be needed. Heb_4:9, “rests,” Greek, “keeping of sabbath” (Isa_66:23). But we cannot, since even Adam, in innocence, needed one amidst his earthly employments; therefore the sabbath is still needed and is therefore still linked with the other nine commandments, as obligatory in the spirit, though the letter of the law has been superseded by that higher spirit of love which is the essence of law and Gospel alike (Rom_13:8-10).”

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Justin Edwards [Congregationalist]:

“… A holy-day-sabbath-days; in the original, a festival-sabbaths. The days referred to are those required to be observed in the ceremonial law-days associated by God with meats, drinks, and new moons. The passage does not refer to the Sabbath of the moral law, associated with the commands forbidding theft, murder, and adultery. This weekly Sabbath was never against men or contrary to them, but was always for them, and promotive of their highest good. The observance of it caused them to ride upon the high places of the earth, and to possess the heritage of God’s people. Isaiah 58:13-14; Jeremiah 17:21-27. …”

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Moses’ Law

God’s Law (Ten Commandments)

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Called “the law of Moses” (Jos. 23:6; Luke 2:22; 1 Cor. 9:9, &c)

Called “the ten commandments” of the LORD [JEHOVAH] (Exo. 34:28; Deut. 4:13, 10:4)

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Spoken by God through Moses (Exo. 35:4; Num. 30:1; Lev. 10:11; Deut. 4:14,45; Heb. 9:19; &c)

Spoken directly by God without Moses (Exo. 20:22; Deut. 4:12-13,15; Neh. 9:13)

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Called [carnal] “ordinances” (Num. 9:12; 2 Chro. 33:8; Eze. 43:11,18, 44:5, 45:14, 46:14; Col. 2:14; Eph. 2:15; Heb. 9:1,10)

Called “the royal [kingly] law” (Jam. 2:8-11, see also Num. 23:21; Psa. 44:4, 47:7, 68:24, 74:12, 84:3, 95:3, 145:1; Isa. 44:6; Jer. 10:10; Dan. 2:37; 1 Tim. 6:15; Rev. 17:14, 19:16)

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Written by Moses at God’s command (Exo. 17:14, 24:4, 34:27; Deut. 31:9; Neh. 8:14; Mark 10:4, 12:19; Luke 20:28; John 1:45, 5:46)

Written directly by God, “finger”, “[Holy] Spirit” (Exo. 31:18, 32:16, 34:1,28; Deut. 9:10; Matt. 12:28; Luke 11:20)

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In A Book (Exo. 17:14; Deut. 31:24; 2 Chro. 34:14, 35:12; Ezra 6:18; Neh. 13:1; Mark 12:26; Heb. 9:19)

Originally on 2 Tables Of The Sapphire Stone [later on regular stone and later on the two tables of the Heart/mind] (Exo. 24:10,12, 31:18, 34:1,4,28; Deut. 10:3-4; Num. 15:38-39; Jer. 31:31-34; Eze. 1:25-28, 10:1, 11:19-20, 36:26-27; Heb. 8:8-13, 10:16; 2 Cor. 3:3,6)

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Many decrees to do with worldly sanctuary (Lev. 18:5, 20:22; Deut. 4:1,5; Psa. 18:22; Mal. 4:4)

“the ten commandments” (Exo. 34:28; Deut. 4:13, 10:4), the “whole” duty of [the] man [all in Adam the first and last] (Ecc. 12:13-14; Psa. 119:96); heavenly sanctuary (Heb. 8:2, 9:11; Rev. 11:19, 15:5)

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Placed “in the side [outside] of the ark” (Deut. 31:26, see also 1 Kin. 8:9)

Placed “into [inside] the ark” (Exo. 40:20; Deut. 5:1-5)

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Abolished in Jesus’ flesh at Calvary/Cross (Eph. 2:15), “till the seed should come”, “time of reformation” (Gal. 3:19; Heb. 9:10)

“will I not break … nor alter”, “settled for ever”, “everlasting”, “founded them for ever”, “endureth for ever” (Deut. 4:2; Psa. 89:34, 111:7-8, 119:89,142,152,160,172; Matt. 5:17; Rev. 11:19, 15:5, a written transcript of God’s own character/glory – Exo. 33:12-23, 34:1-9, 20:5-7)

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“Added [to an already existing Law] because of transgressions [sin]“ (Gal. 3:19)

Already existed from the beginning (Gen. 4:7, 16:5, 5:16, 18:20, 19:15, 20:9, 31:36, 39:9, 44:16; Exo. 9:27,34, 10:16-17; Job 1:5,22, 7:20, 8:4, 22:15-17, 24:19, 31:33, 33:27; Isa. 3:9; Lam. 4:6; Eze. 28:12-19; Rom. 2:12, 3:23, 5:12-21; 2 Cor. 11:3; 1 Tim. 2:14; 2 Pet. 2:4; Jude 1:6)

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More given throughout Israel’s [after the flesh] journey (Exo. 30:22; Lev. 4:1)

Self Contained, Complete, “added no more” (Deut. 5:22)

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Changeable [Type to Antitype] (Acts 6:14; Heb. 7:12,18)

Cannot be altered, “sure” (Psa. 89:34, 111:7-8), unchangeable as God (Exo. 33:12-23, 34:1-9, 20:5-7; Psa. 102:12,25-27; Mal.i 3:6; Heb. 1:10-12, 13:8)

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“Against us”, “contrary to us” (Deut. 4:26, 30:19, 31:19,21,26,38; Jos. 24:22; Col. 2:14)

“not grievous” (1 John 5:3), “made for [the] man” (Mark 2:27), “good” (Rom. 7:12,16; 1 Tim. 1:8), the law is not “against the promises” (Gal. 3:21), but the Ten Commandments are in fact all promises of God in the New and Everlasting Covenant (Eph. 6:2; Heb. 8:6, &c)

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Identifies [Points to] the Saviour [Jesus] (Gen. 3:15,21; 22:8 Exo. 12:3-11; John 1:29,36; Rev. 13:8)

Identifies [Points out] sin (Rom. 3:20, 7:7,14; Jam. 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4)

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Not to be judged by (Col. 2:16-17)

Judges all (Ecc. 12:13-14; Rom. 7:7,14; Jam. 2:10-13; 1 John 3:4)

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“carnal”, “worldly” (Col. 2:8,20; Heb. 7:16, 9:1,10)

“spiritual” (Rom. 7:14,22), “spirit” (John 6:63; Exo. 31:18, 32:16, 34:1,28; Deut. 9:10; Matt. 12:28; Luke 11:20)

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Their faulty promises were a “yoke”, “of bondage” (Acts 15:10,24; Gal. 5:1; Heb. 8:7-9; Exo. 19:8)

“walk at liberty”, “law of liberty”, “free” (Psa. 119:45; Jam. 1:25, 2:12; Isa. 58:6,13; John 8:32-36; Exo. 20:2; Deut. 5:6; Matt. 5:19; Rom. 6:22, 8:2: Gal. 4:26,31, 5:1: 1 Pet. 2:16)

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“made nothing” “perfect” (Heb. 7:19, 9:9, 10:1; Gal. 3:3)

Is “perfect” (Exo. 32:16; Deut. 32:4; 2 Sam. 22:31; Psa. 18:30, 19:7, 40:8; Rom. 2:12; 2 Tim. 3:16-17; Jam. 1:25)

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“ceased”, “abolished” , “remaineth no more sacrifice for sin” (Dan. 9:27; Eph. 2:15; Heb. 10:26)

“magnified” by Jesus/Calvary (Isa. 42:21; Matt. 5:1-7:29; Rom. 3:31)

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A “whole law” which cannot justify for salvation (Gal. 5:1-3)

A “whole duty” to do through faith & Holy Spirit (Ecc. 12:13-14; Luke 17:10; Eph. 2:8-10; Tit. 3:4-8)

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[mailmandan]

Save it. I'm really not interested in your long winded, SDA EISEGESIS.

 

[HopeinHim4ever]

The only thing I’m seeing about the Inquisition on the Internet relates to the Catholic Church. Are you Catholic?

A lot of true believers were martyred as heretics during the inquisition.

 

[Runningman]

A lot of true believers were martyred as heretics during the inquisition.

I don't think I would want to attend a church that identifies itself as The Inquisition. Seems to carry a lot of negative historical baggage with it. I guess it's Catholic? Imagine someone receiving capital punishment from the state's religion for not believing as they do. Wild. And some people today still want a theocracy.

A short excerpt from Wiki, bolded and underlined words are mine:

"The Inquisition was a group of institutions within the Catholic Church whose aim was to combat heresy, conducting trials of suspected heretics. Studies of the records have found that the overwhelming majority of sentences consisted of penances, but convictions of unrepentant heresy were handed over to the secular courts, which generally resulted in execution or life imprisonment. The Inquisition had its start in the 12th-century Kingdom of France, with the aim of combating religious deviation (e.g. apostasy or heresy), particularly among the Cathars and the Waldensians. "

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition

 

[HopeinHim4ever]

I don't think I would want to attend a church that identifies itself as The Inquisition. Seems to carry a lot of negative historical baggage with it. I guess it's Catholic? Imagine someone receiving capital punishment from the state's religion for not believing as they do. Wild. And some people today still want a theocracy.

A short excerpt from Wiki, bolded and underlined words are mine:

"The Inquisition was a group of institutions within the Catholic Church whose aim was to combat heresy, conducting trials of suspected heretics. Studies of the records have found that the overwhelming majority of sentences consisted of penances, but convictions of unrepentant heresy were handed over to the secular courts, which generally resulted in execution or life imprisonment. The Inquisition had its start in the 12th-century Kingdom of France, with the aim of combating religious deviation (e.g. apostasy or heresy), particularly among the Cathars and the Waldensians. "

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition

Yeah that's kinda what I knew of it. Did you know that many of the early Waldensians kept the Sabbath? And the missionary they call "saint" Patrick. If you delve into history it's really neat how God has always had a witness to His people keeping His commandments.

 

[Inquisitor]

It doesn't matter what my church believes, the bible is the truth.
Grace is a gift from God
Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
The measure of the gift of Christ = all of heaven, the life and death of Jesus, the Godhead in bodily form...
Infinitly huge....

So a infinitly huge gift from God. For everyone, why?
Because where Sin abounds Grace does much more abound.

You said there is nothing we can do to alter the gift of salvation except believe.

We do need to accept the Gift and we do need to have faith in the Gift but what does it mean to recieve the grace in VAIN.

2Co 6:1-4
1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain. 2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.) 3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed: 4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,

The list goes on..... read it.
By "all things" we do or don't do, we are either recieving the grace in vain or not recieving it in vain.

Yes, what your saying is completely correct.

That is exactly what the Christian gospel is all about.

Though you have blended your response to the gospel with Christ's reconciliation. They are not the same event.

Everything regarding salvation belongs to Christ alone, salvation is the gift granted to humanity by Him.

We respond to that free gift, the grace of God, by our works, our faith.

Your works cannot co-contribute, your obedience cannot co-contribute, to salvation, they only reflect God's grace.

"beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain"

You receive the gift of salvation first and then you walk in that grace by faith, receive and then respond.

No matter how wonderful your works are, they are the result of that gift of salvation.

 

[Inquisitor]

I don't think I would want to attend a church that identifies itself as The Inquisition.

You don't attend a church of the Inquisition. You are dragged into that church, kicking and screaming.
Then your doctrine is examined by a court of law.

 

[Inquisitor]

You seem stuck on Ephesians 2, but other parts of the Bible elaborates about grace whereas Ephesians 2 doesn’t.

You’re under grace if you’re not under God’s law. You’re not under God’s law if you are led by the Spirit. If you’re under God’s law you’re under grace. This is very clear from Galatians 5.

Being led by the Spirit is measurable by specific thing you as a human chose to do because being led by the Spirit you are supposed to be following. On the other hand, you can consciously and deliberately seek after the things of the flesh and possibly not inherit the kingdom of God if they become your practice.

I keep repeating this and I guess I have my work cut out for me.

So you’re not understanding the Ephesians 2 “saved by grace” mantra you keep repeating.

Grace isn’t unmerited. Faith is your faith. Grace is God’s grace. The result is your salvation which is a gift from God. You got it all wrong and if this didn’t matter for the possible salvation of your soul I wouldn’t be here helping.

This is where you folk stumble.

Grace isn’t unmerited.

Your definition of the grace of God in Christ Jesus is deeply flawed.

God's grace was given to a rebellious people, so rebellious that they crucified God Himself. That is what unmerited grace is!

God's unmerited love was given to lawbreakers, sinful, evil people, These people did not deserve any love but wrath, judgement. That is unmerited love, unmerited grace.

Grace comes first in all things and was freely granted to every undeserving soul, you included.

 

[Inquisitor]

That is against the bible principles.
I don't believe it is Jesus plus our holiness.

It is Jesus plus Jesus plus Jesus = Holiness.

I believe Jesus wants us to be holy like He was holy and that by grace through faith He empowers us to be Holy.

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

Why did you quote out of context.

Who overcame the world?

John 16:33
These things I have spoken to you so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world.

How do we overcome the world?

1 John 5:5
Who is the one who overcomes the world, but the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

That is how you overcome the world, by trusting Jesus who overcame the world.

 

[jaybo]

Returning to the OP...

I observe the sabbath, as does everyone who takes a day off from work. The sabbath is a day of rest, i.e., a day when only essential work is performed. Now that I am retired, I observe a sabbath every day!

 

[Runningman]

You don't attend a church of the Inquisition. You are dragged into that church, kicking and screaming.
Then your doctrine is examined by a court of law.

Sounds like I’d be martyred then. Is that what you’re saying?

What would your church of the Inquisition do to me after examination by their court and my subsequent guilty verdict?

 

[Inquisitor]

Yeah that's kinda what I knew of it. Did you know that many of the early Waldensians kept the Sabbath? And the missionary they call "saint" Patrick. If you delve into history it's really neat how God has always had a witness to His people keeping His commandments.

Wrong set of commandments.

1 John 3:23-24
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

The law delivers condemnation to all.

The true commandments, His commandments above, will save all who call on the name of Jesus.