Does God desire the salvation of all mankind?

[HeIsHere]

That does not comport with God's words.

We can't accept some of scripture and omit what other parts we do not like.

I like all of scripture and believe it all to be true.

I do not not think any of TULIP whether hyper or more modernized to make it more palatable is truth.

If you beleive a sinner is dead as a corpse (totally depraved and unable to freely respond to God) and faith is a gift given to particular ones (the elect), and only those individuals sovereignly and unconditionally elected before the foundation of the world will be irresistibly drawn to Christ – then you need to believe that regeneration precedes faith. <<<<<< Not biblical.


In scripture we actually see many appeals calling sinners to respond to the gospel.

The Holy Spirit uses the seed of God's Word to bring about new life (I Pet. 1:23; James 1:18,21; I John 3:9). The word of God is the Spirit’s instrumental means that faith leads to regeneration.

God is interested in a free response of faith as the Holy Spirit draws the sinner through the Gospel. << Truth

In this way God is actually glorified.

When does a loving parent feel better when a child is forced to respond correctly or when the child does the right thing because they are persuaded of the truth of the right response?

TULIP needs to go away, it maligns God!!

 

[Cameron143]

I like all of scripture and believe it all to be true.

I do not not think any of TULIP whether hyper or more modernized to make it more palatable is truth.

If you beleive a sinner is dead as a corpse (totally depraved and unable to freely respond to God) and faith is a gift given to particular ones (the elect), and only those individuals sovereignly and unconditionally elected before the foundation of the world will be irresistibly drawn to Christ – then you need to believe that regeneration precedes faith. <<<<<< Not biblical.


In scripture we actually see many appeals calling sinners to respond to the gospel.

The Holy Spirit uses the seed of God's Word to bring about new life (I Pet. 1:23; James 1:18,21; I John 3:9). The word of God is the Spirit’s instrumental means that faith leads to regeneration.

God is interested in a free response of faith as the Holy Spirit draws the sinner through the Gospel. << Truth

In this way God is actually glorified.

When does a loving parent feel better when a child is forced to respond correctly or when the child does the right thing because they are persuaded of the truth of the right response?

TULIP needs to go away, it maligns God!!

What is your understanding of the different grounds on which the seed falls in the parable of the sower?

 

[Magenta]

In scripture we actually see many appeals calling sinners to respond to the gospel.

We also see many verses attesting to the fact that it is God working in us that makes it possible.

So while people kvetch and moan about total depravity, and ascribe it solely to Calvinistic thought,
they show their ignorance of the fact that Arminianism also embraces and teaches total depravity.

Molinism modifies it somewhat to radical depravity.

 

[Magenta]

Jesus' Words in John 6:65

 

[HeIsHere]

We also see many verses attesting to the fact that it is God working in us that makes it possible.

So while people kvetch and moan about total depravity, and ascribe it solely to Calvinistic thought,
they show their ignorance of the fact that Arminianism also embraces and teaches total depravity.

Molinism modifies it somewhat to radical depravity.

There are camps no doubt, my main point it that regeneration does not precede salvation, whatever camp believes this they are not following the framework of scripture.

"For he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him."

 

[HeIsHere]

What is your understanding of the different grounds on which the seed falls in the parable of the sower?

I find it interesting how the seed seems so carelessly strewn about.

The seed which fell by the wayside was eaten by the birds, this hard packed soil was not readied for seeds and the seeds had no chance to survive the birds.

It is not time that determines salvation but the fact that life did spring up, the other seeds did germinate.

It is a false premise that since they only believe for a while that they are not saved.
The person represented by the rocky soil “believed” and therefore was saved.

 

[Cameron143]

I find it interesting how the seed seems so carelessly strewn about.

The seed which fell by the wayside was eaten by the birds, this hard packed soil was not readied for seeds and the seeds had no chance to survive the birds.

It is not time that determines salvation but the fact that life did spring up, the other seeds did germinate.

It is a false premise that since they only believe for a while that they are not saved.
The person represented by the rocky soil “believed” and therefore was saved.

I appreciate the response. But I just wanted to get your view on what the different types of ground represent. Can you share that?
I'm not trying to deflate any argument or view you may have. I'm merely trying to gain your perspective.

 

[Magenta]

There are camps no doubt, my main point it that regeneration does not precede salvation,
whatever camp believes this they are not following the framework of scripture.

"For he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him."

Do you understand my main point? It has been a matter of discussion for many days now.

Funny how while attempting to properly define something that is actually held to be
true in each camp, there are those who seem to think I belong to the camp they oppose.

Understanding does not seem to be a strong point in these parts.

 

[HeIsHere]

I appreciate the response. But I just wanted to get your view on what the different types of ground represent. Can you share that?
I'm not trying to deflate any argument or view you may have. I'm merely trying to gain your perspective.

I am not really sure the parable is about salvation, since I think it may be reading into the text, but if it is, my previous post stands!

If we take into account Jesus is speaking to his followers, Jews, I started thinking that perhaps it has to do how a person responds to the word of God on any given day depending on the condition of our heart, the fourth soil being the best response because it is fertile, good soil.

For example, have you ever lost your peace and self control because of something you were anxious about and even though we know scripture tells not to worry at that moment we react like the thorny ground and we give into the flesh and start to worry.

If we want to bear fruit we need to keep our soil rich and fertile so that the word of God has deep roots.

 

[HeIsHere]

Do you understand my main point? It has been a matter of discussion for many days now.

Funny how while attempting to properly define something that is actually held to be
true in each camp, there are those who seem to think I belong to the camp they oppose.

Understanding does not seem to be a strong point in these parts.

I have not read the whole thread, I would agree that the it is important to properly define the terms, that however is not easy when it comes to these two opposing camps since they seem to each be all over the place depending on the author.

If it is any consolation I am not really sure if you belong to a camp or not... best place, keep them all on their toes!

 

[Cameron143]

I am not really sure the parable is about salvation, since I think it may be reading into the text, but if it is, my previous post stands!

If we take into account Jesus is speaking to his followers, Jews, I started thinking that perhaps it has to do how a person responds to the word of God on any given day depending on the condition of our heart, the fourth soil being the best response because it is fertile, good soil.

For example, have you ever lost your peace and self control because of something you were anxious about and even though we know scripture tells not to worry at that moment we react like the thorny ground and we give into the flesh and start to worry.

If we want to bear fruit we need to keep our soil rich and fertile so that the word of God has deep roots.

Can Jesus speak to His followers about salvation even though they possess it? Just because they are believers doesn't mean they know all there is to know about it.
Would you consider that the soils represent the hearts of men?

 

[HeIsHere]

Can Jesus speak to His followers about salvation even though they possess it? Just because they are believers doesn't mean they know all there is to know about it.
Would you consider that the soils represent the hearts of men?

Agree, even if we are saved we still can become hard against the word of God, I have seen this with people who suffer tragedy, they give up and harden their hearts.

There are more than four types of soil in life/hearts, but yes Jesus draws out the most common for the understanding for the people at the time.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

So, but once we're given Faith it's up to us to actually use it.

IF we're given fqaith, "Using it" will be intrinsic.

90% of what the church CALLS Faith - aint.

 

[Cameron143]

Agree, even if we are saved we still can become hard against the word of God, I have seen this with people who suffer tragedy, they give up and harden their hearts.

There are more than four types of soil in life/hearts, but yes Jesus draws out the most common for the understanding for the people at the time.

Agree. So who's field is it? And who prepares the soil?

 

[HeIsHere]

Agree. So who's field is it? And who prepares the soil?

I knew you were going to ask that .

Well Jesus ends with this .... 18Then pay attention to how you listen; for to those who have, more will be given; and from those who do not have, even what they seem to have will be taken away.”

So it seems people have a role to play in how they receive the word.

 

[Cameron143]

I knew you were going to ask that .

Well Jesus ends with this .... 18Then pay attention to how you listen; for to those who have, more will be given; and from those who do not have, even what they seem to have will be taken away.”

So it seems people have a role to play in how they receive the word.

While we end up disagreeing about what the end means we were able to find some common ground. Guess we were in the good soil.

 

[Magenta]

Well Jesus ends with this .... 18Then pay attention to how you listen; for to those who have, more
will be given; and from those who do not have, even what they seem to have will be taken away.”

I see a long/longer term ramification in this also, for those who have the living Word of God
abiding in them attain to life ever after, while those who do not shall pass into the second death.

As Jesus said, He came to give life, and that more abundantly.
This of course does not apply to those who reject Him.
They do not get more life. They get death.

 

[HeIsHere]

While we end up disagreeing about what the end means we were able to find some common ground. Guess we were in the good soil.

What "end?"

 

[Cameron143]

What "end?"

The end of the passage

 

[HeIsHere]

The end of the passage

What does it mean?