See Both Christ and His Sheep are Gods elect, and Christ came to save only elect sinners.
Does God desire the salvation of all mankind?
- Thread starter Nehemiah6
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Context.
When Jesus said no one comes to the father but through him, no one comes unless God leads, calls them, then ''all people'' would be a reference that fits those constraints. All people whom God calls to his son.
Jesus said not all are meant to understand his parables so to come unto repentance. Therefore, Jesus tells us the truth.
Yes, we can trust what Jesus said about that in Matthew 24. And then there is Paul who refers to God's
elect in Romans 8. Eklektos, or eklektoi , is the Greek plural of “elect”.
Ephesians 1:4 is in line with the same thought.
Matt 16:16 - He that believeth, and is baptised shall be saved (delivered from guilt). In the days of Noah, eight souls were saved (delivered from drowning) by water. 1 Pet 3:21 - The like figure, whereunto, even baptism doth also now save (delivered us from guilt, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God)
These are two examples of deliverances (salvations) that the child of God receives as he sojourns here on earth. They do not reference eternal deliverance.
Spiritual Israel, (includes people from every people, and kindred, and tongue, and nation) which is not the nation of Israel, but includes some of the people from the nation of Israel.
Rom 10:1-3 - Paul's prayer is that God would save (deliver) some of Spiritual Israel, from their ignorance of the righteousness of God, who are going about trying to establish their own righteousness, by their works, but not according to knowledge.
By the born again children of God, as babes in Christ, coming unto a knowledge of the truth saves (delivers) them from their ignorance.
1 Tim 2: 1-4 - Paul is instructing Timothy to preach to the church in Ephesus to teach them that they preach no other doctrine, from which some have turned aside unto vain jangling. who are babes in Christ desiring to be teachers of the law.
In verse 1-2, telling the church to pray for those that have authority over them, that we ( the church at Ephesus) might lead a quiet and peaceful life.
Verse 4 - Who would have all men (Those babes in Christ that are teaching the law) to be saved (delivered from ignorance) by coming
unto a knowledge of the truth.
All scriptures will not harmonize, unless you learn to rightly divide the salvation (deliverance) scriptures.
Why can’t you just post verses and let them stand? I know why? Because you need to read theology into the verses that simply is not there. Rightly divide Israel from the body of Christ.
These people in Numbers 21 were the disobedient children of Israel being chastened by God with the serpents. They were already saved (delivered) eternally by promise, and looked upon the fiery serpent for healing. After Christ was raised up on the cross, we as children of God, now look to him for healing.
If I let them stand, you would not have a chance to see the truth.
Very lame defense of your false doctrine. If the scriptures do not harmonize for you, indicates that your doctrine is false.
God wills all to be saved.
WB: If God 'wills' something to happen, will it not happen? Putting it another way: when God wills something to happen, can His will be thwarted?
So, if you agree that God's will cannot be thwarted and His will is done, how can it be said - given that you also say "All will not be saved" - that God wills all to be saved?
John 12:31-32
Those people who were bitten in the wilderness were of Israel, who were God's disobedient children of promise and looked upon the fiery serpent for healing, in the same manner that the born again children of today, look to Jesus on the cross for healing.
The term "ALL MEN" is referenced from Gen through Rev, and every one of these references are directed to "ALL MEN THAT ARE UNDER CONSIDERATION", which is not all of mankind.
Scripture is not enough? We need your private interpretation of what saith the scriptures?
Is the "all men" in the following passage concerning only the so called elect, or for all men everywhere?
1 Timothy 2
1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
K
kaylagrl
Guest
Oh right take the easy cheesy way out. I like cheese but caramel kinda tips the scale. Not gonna turn down either one if offered.
I just didn't want to miss out needlessly...that old have not because you ask not thingy
I understand that quite well, ForestGreenCook. But that is still not germane to what was originally said.
I realize you are confused about that. Perhaps this Scripture will help.
Jeremiah 29:13-14a
I realise that you are trying to convert me to your way of perceiving the scriptures for my good, and I appreciate your efforts, but I also am trying to explain, and defend the doctrine of Christ, they way that it has been revealed to me.
If I comprehend correctly, what you originally said is that faith is required for eternal salvation.
God's messenger, Jeremiah, was sent to tell the captive elders, and priest of Israel (God's people) that they will see God, and find him, and he will turn them away from their captivity.
The faith in the scriptures that I have referenced you pertain to deliverances that the people of God receives here in this world, and does not reference eternal deliverance.
Jesus told you the truth in John chapter 3 but you refused to believe Him. So do you know why He said some would not understand His words? Because those unbelieving hearers had already made up their minds about Christ and had rejected Him and His words.
God gives everyone multiple opportunities to repent. But once they harden their hearts God stops speaking to them. And if you harden your heart and resist the truth that God offers salvation to all mankind, God Himself will blind you to the truth. It is a very dangerous thing to call God and Christ liars.
But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people. .. What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day. (Rom 10:18-21;11:7,8)
God brought judicial blindness on unbelieving Jews because they resisted the Holy Ghost.
It is evident that you have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. I am just trying to direct you to the knowledge.
Perhaps you could lay off on your erroneous assumptions and false accusations.
Although you have quite a history of doing just that, it does not help your case.
If they seek Him with all their heart.