Does God desire the salvation of all mankind?

[John146]

Correct He died for the world of His Elect, no revision needed, just understanding, and Jesus gives that to His Elect.

Redefining the words “world, all men, whosoever, etc..” to fit a certain theology.

 

[brightfame52]

Redefining the words “world, all men, whosoever, etc..” to fit a certain theology.

Thats what people are guilty of who teach say for instance that Jn 3:16 says God loved and Christ died for all mankind without exception, as to say every single individual, since thats a lie !

 

[ForestGreenCook]

True dat!

God's perfection, man's responsibility of perfection, man's inability to comply and man's need for a savior is scripture and the gospel in a nutshell.

Discussing soteriology with an Arminian or Pelagian (of any kind) is sort of like discussing the deity of Christ with a JW or Muslim, they always want to drag you into the weeds. For years I've been contemplating, searching for a simple death blow that even the most ignorant "Pelagian" would understand and I think I'm onto something. Incidentally, this new theory, this new (ever evolving) approach of mine came from debating JW's and Muslims. I realized that neither know if they'll go to "heaven", they both claim "God" will choose based on man's action. That is to say, both religions are of works. In fact all religions, except Christianity, require action of man for "salvation", they are all of works.

Pelagianism in its many forms, conclude man's action is required on some level and because of this some rightly conclude the Pelagian doctrines to be of works. This works connection to all satanic religions should be enough to persuade the Pelagian but in true form, into the weeds they go.

Let's look at Pelagianism.

Pelagianism is named after Pelagius, a monk who lived in the late 300s and early 400s AD. Pelagius began teaching the doctrine associated with his name in an effort to promote holy living among Christians. When people sinned, Pelagius grew weary of hearing the excuse of “I can’t help it. It’s in my nature to do wrong.” To counter that excuse, Pelagius stressed the freedom of the human will, essentially teaching that all sin is the result of a conscious choice of evil over good; everyone has the ability to freely choose to do good all the time. And, since there is no such thing as original sin or an inherited sin nature, then we cannot blame Adam. God created us good, so no one ever has an excuse for sinning. If you’re not living a holy life, it’s because you’re not trying hard enough... Pelagius, an ascetic and philosopher from the British Isles, taught that God could not command believers to do the impossible, and therefore it must be possible to satisfy all divine commandments.

Note the claim of man's ability and his duty to act. Now lets have a look at Semi-Pelagianism.

Semi-Pelagianism was promulgated in the fifth century AD by John Cassian and some other church leaders in France. It took a middle-of-the-road approach to depravity; we are depraved, but not totally so. Semi-Pelagianism allows that humanity is tainted by sin, but not to the extent that we cannot cooperate with God’s grace on our own. Semi-Pelagianism is, in essence, partial depravity as opposed to total depravity. We are sinful, but we can still recognize the truth, cooperate with God’s grace, and choose to seek Christ. We need God’s grace to be saved, but we can take the first step toward Christ on our own, apart from grace.

Again we see this teaching of man's ability paired with action. What about Arminianism?

According to Arminianism, salvation is accomplished through the combined efforts of God (who takes the initiative) and man (who must respond); man’s response being the determining factor. God has provided salvation for everyone, but His provision becomes effective only for those who, of their own free will, choose to cooperate with Him and accept His offer of grace. At the crucial point, man’s will plays a decisive role; thus man, not God, determines who will be recipients of the gift of salvation.

More subtle than the Pelagian heresy yet Arminianism still retains this concept of man's ability paired with action.
Let's try one more, reformed Arminianism.

Reformed Arminians disagree with the teaching of perfectionism or entire sanctification found in some Arminian circles. In addition, Reformed Arminianism accepts the Reformed teachings of original sin and total depravity, believing it is only the grace of God and the power of the Holy Spirit that can overcome human depravity. At the same time, Reformed Arminianism retains the Arminian view of predestination (God elected those He knew would believe) and the freedom of the will (one is able to resist the grace of God needed to save him).

The most subtle of them all, reformed Arminianism attempts to bridge the grace gap yet retains this notion of man's ability.

All satanic religions are of works but what are works? What is behind every satanic, fruitless work? It is first the notion that man is able to perform it. In other words, behind all satanic doctrines of works is found this notion of man's ability.

Eve in the garden. "You shall be as God". Before Eve acted, this notion of ability was planted by satan. In her mind she actually believed she was able to be as God.

Satan's fall. Satan first had to believe he was able, that he actually had the ability to be as God.

Tower of Babel.
Gen 11:3 They said to each other, “Come, let’s make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. 4 Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.”
5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6 The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”

The list goes on...

It seems that behind every insane idea in scripture is this notion of ability, this "seed of ability" planted in the mind by satan.

However, the entirety of scripture is used by God to reveal man's inability. God requires perfect love, perfect fear, perfect joy, perfect thanks and perfect belief to name a few. Scripture unequivocally states man is unable to achieve any of these. God's perfection, man's responsibility of perfection, man's inability to comply and man's need for a savior is scripture and the gospel in a nutshell. These are simple truths.

This is where Pelagius' heresy is revealed, he denies the simple gospel truth of man's inability. Why? Perhaps satan, who seeks to distort our simple gospel, plants the seed of ability by whispering in the ear of the "Pelagian","Did God really say faith is a gift? God wouldn't command you to do something you're not able to do would he? Surely you have the ability to believe."

To deny man's inability is to deny the entire theme of the Bible and the true gospel of grace. This gospel of grace, most recently popularized by the reformers, is the only gospel known to mankind that claims salvation is entirely of the Lord. Please let that sink in.

An interesting side note. As we would expect, a brief look into the history of churches that adopted some form of Pelagianism will reveal other heresies, for heresy breeds heresy. The Methodist church, classic Pentecostalism, Free will Baptists and the Roman Catholic Church to name a few. Not all in these churches are heretical but all these churches breed heresy in some form.

Good post.

 

[Magenta]

Eve in the garden. "You shall be as God". Before Eve acted, this notion of ability was
planted by satan. In her mind she actually believed she was able to be as God.

Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil. And now,
lest he reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever.” Genesis 3:22

The lie of Satan was, “You will not surely die,” the serpent told her.

 

[Snacks]

No it doesnt, you merely deceived into thinking it does.

You believe “world” doesn’t mean world, and you say I’m deceived. That’s funny.

 

[Magenta]

Typo correction: this, Only there's a caviar. should read, Only there's a caviat.

caveat
a warning or proviso of specific stipulations, conditions, or limitations.

 

[Snacks]

His people are those who believe in Him

Exactly. Everything else you wrote is garbage.

 

[Magenta]

Are you saying though.. that like a full 5 point calvinist will say...that a person is converted before they believe?

Deuteronomy 30:6~ The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you
may love Him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live.

 

[NOV25]

Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil. And now,
lest he reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever.” Genesis 3:22

The lie of Satan was, “You will not surely die,” the serpent told her.

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

 

[Magenta]

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 For God doth know that in the
day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil." Genesis 3:22a

The lie of Satan was, “You will not surely die,” the serpent told her.

 

[NOV25]

Eve in the garden. "You shall be as God". Before Eve acted, this notion of ability was planted by satan. In her mind she actually believed she was able to be as God.

Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil. And now,
lest he reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever.” Genesis 3:22

The lie of Satan was, “You will not surely die,” the serpent told her.

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil." Genesis 3:22a

The lie of Satan was, “You will not surely die,” the serpent told her.

I'm not following you. Please explain.

 

[Magenta]

I'm not following you. Please explain.

I am not sure what there is to explain any further.

The lie of Satan = “You will not surely die.”

God agreed that they had become like Him, knowing good and evil.

So that was clearly not Satan's lie.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

op: God Desires the salvation of ALL mankind?
Certainly True:

"The Lord Is Not Slack concerning HIS Promise, as some men​

count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, Is Not Willing​

that Any Should Perish, but that ALL Should Come To repentance"​

(2Pe 3:9)​

Case Closed. For me anyway; all others my now carry on...
-------------------
Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II)!

 

[Magenta]

op: God Desires the salvation of ALL mankind? Certainly True:

"The Lord Is Not Slack concerning HIS Promise, as some men​

count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, Is Not Willing​

that Any Should Perish, but that ALL Should Come To repentance"​

(2Pe 3:9)​

Case Closed. For me anyway; all others my now carry on...
-------------------
Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided (+ I and II)!

2 Peter 3:9

 

[brightfame52]

You believe “world” doesn’t mean world, and you say I’m deceived. That’s funny.

It means the elect. Thats the only world God loved and Christ died for. and yes you deceived.

 

[NOV25]

I am not sure what there is to explain any further.

The lie of Satan = “You will not surely die.”

Gen 3:4“You will not surely die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

2 lies.

Commentary: Satan goes on to say to Eve that she will not die “for God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God” (vs. 5). Here, Satan not only casts doubt on the truth of the punishment, but also casts aspersions on the motive of God for making the command. Satan is, in effect, saying, “You will not surely die. God only said that because He does not want you to become like Him.”

 

[brightfame52]

Exactly. Everything else you wrote is garbage.

You calling Truth of God garbage !

 

[Magenta]

Gen 3:4“You will not surely die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

2 lies.

Commentary: Satan goes on to say to Eve that she will not die “for God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God” (vs. 5). Here, Satan not only casts doubt on the truth of the punishment, but also casts aspersions on the motive of God for making the command. Satan is, in effect, saying, “You will not surely die. God only said that because He does not want you to become like Him.”

God agreed that man had become like Him in knowing good and evil.

How can you then call it a lie?

 

[Snacks]

It means the elect. Thats the only world God loved and Christ died for. and yes you deceived.

If you were right then the Bible would say for God so loved the elect, and no one else, and Christ died for the elect, and no one else. But it doesn’t and you’re not.

 

[brightfame52]

If you were right then the Bible would say for God so loved the elect, and no one else, and Christ died for the elect, and no one else. But it doesn’t and you’re not.

The bible isnt written in accordance of what you say, who do you think you are friend ? Now the world saved and loved is the elect