Does God desire the salvation of all mankind?

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Yes, I am. Are you? I quoted more than 3 Scriptures earlier that clearly answered your question, as did others. Answer them 1 by 1 if you can.

Here is the 1st:

I:1 Tim 2:1-4: God will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the Truth:

"Call to Prayer
1I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; 2For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. 3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Do you believe this?

 

[Magenta]

Glad you are mending. The hospital's loss is our gain.

I also went back to work at the beginning of November, so that has slowed down my
designing process somewhat. A quick counts shows I designed 161 panels this year

 

[Cameron143]

I also went back to work at the beginning of November, so that has slowed down my
designing process somewhat. A quick counts shows I designed 161 panels this year

Well I certainly hope you get your priorities straight and this job fad thingy is short-lived.

 

[Magenta]

Well I certainly hope you get your priorities straight and this job fad thingy is short-lived.

I was taken aback when my boss asked me, and my initial reaction was no way! But it is only part time
(three days a week), and it does not affect my pension or other funds I am collecting in my retirement
I needed a reason to get dressed and walk out my door on a regular basis, plus I have always enjoyed my job,
and my boss is a pretty decent guy. All told it is a good thing - at least for now He just called me to make sure
I was not coming in today because there was a lot of snowfall last night It started in earnest on Sunday...

I had been there for 38 years when I was laid off with the covid closures almost three years ago...

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Are you saying that Jesus died because we were doing good works?

Not at all. Eternal deliverance (salvation) was accomplished on the cross for all of those that his Father gave to him, and the promise of an inheritance in heaven was given unto them.

I am saying that those same people that he died for the remission of their sins, after they have been born again, unto good works, by God's sovereign grace, will commit sins as they sojourn here on earth

When they commit a sin, they separate themselves from fellowship with their God, until they repent. When they repent, they are saved (delivered) from the consequences of that sin

There is a one time eternal deliverance (salvation), but there are many times that the born again child of God receives deliverances (salvations) as he sojourns here on earth.

Salvation, according to Greek translation means (a deliverance)

 

[ForestGreenCook]

All of Creation will partake of the Death of Christ,

What meaning are you trying to convey with this statement?

 

[Cameron143]

I was taken aback when my boss asked me, and my initial reaction was no way! But it is only part time
(three days a week), and it does not affect my pension or other funds I am collecting in my retirement
I needed a reason to get dressed and walk out my door on a regular basis, plus I have always enjoyed my job,
and my boss is a pretty decent guy. All told it is a good thing - at least for now He just called me to make sure
I was not coming in today because there was a lot of snowfall last night It started in earnest on Sunday...

I had been there for 38 years when I was laid off with the covid closures almost three years ago...

I'm teasing of course but like so many others here am blessed by the exercise of your gift.

 

[Magenta]

I'm teasing of course but like so many others here am blessed by the exercise of your gift.

Yes, I know, and, you are hilarious I love how you exercise the gift of your sense of humour

And thank you

 

[John146]

Here someone of reformed belief would say there is a prescriptive will and a permissive will. I bring these up so you will have a better understanding of what Calvinists actually believe.
You may not agree with the substance of the argument, but it will give you greater insight to what traditional reformed thought actually entails.

Yes, I've heard these explanations to fit there RCC theology.

 

[John146]

1 Thessalonians 5:16-18

Agreed, and yet, there are some believers who fail to give thanks.

 

[John146]

So you good with your god being a failure, wishing and desiring and willing that he cant have.

The God I serve Job 23:13

13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.

Great play on words. Christ accomplished exactly what the Father wanted him to accomplish. It's a shame that people reject him and die in their sins.

Is it God's will that believer's always give thanks? It's a shame that God is a failure and his will is not carried out when believers fail to always give thanks. Do you see how absurd this argument is? It's not God's failure, but man's failure.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Take the case of Judas. Did Jesus refuse to save him? No, Jesus washed his feet, gave him communion just like the rest of the Apostles. It was Judas who refused Jesus' offers of Love and Salvation and to believe in His Sacrifice and repent.

God choose Pharoah for the same purpose, ant that was to show that God has power to do his will.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I:1 Tim 2:1-4: God will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the Truth: "Call to Prayer
1I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; 2For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. 3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Do you believe this?

Those are not just the words of Paul. Those are the words of God the Holy Spirit speaking through Paul. And Peter made it clear that all of Paul's epistles must be regarded as Scripture.

 

[Magenta]

Here someone of reformed belief would say there is a prescriptive will and a permissive will.
I bring these up so you will have a better understanding of what Calvinists actually believe.
You may not agree with the substance of the argument, but it will give you
greater insight to what traditional reformed thought actually entails.

I understand God's will as being tripartite ~

Moral
Permissive
Sovereign

I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me. I declare the end from the beginning,
and ancient times from what is still to come. I say, ‘My purpose will stand, and all My good pleasure I will
accomplish.’ I summon a bird of prey from the east, a man for My purpose from a far-off land. Truly I have
spoken, and truly I will bring it to pass. I have planned it, and I will surely do it. Isaiah 46:9b-11

Isaiah 46:10

 

[brightfame52]

Great play on words. Christ accomplished exactly what the Father wanted him to accomplish. It's a shame that people reject him and die in their sins.

Is it God's will that believer's always give thanks? It's a shame that God is a failure and his will is not carried out when believers fail to always give thanks. Do you see how absurd this argument is? It's not God's failure, but man's failure.

He hasnt accomplished everything God willed for Him to accomplish of some whom God willed to be saved arent saved. Its Christs responsibility to save who the Father wills to be saved. And if some God willed to be saved arent saved, Gods will went unfulfilled. The believe does always gives thanks by imputation, did Christ always give thanks while He was here living on earth ? Yes or No

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Nehemiah, agreed.

Yes, I've heard these explanations to fit there RCC theology.

Calvinist Theology is not RCC Theology. The Catholic Church teaches, and Catholic Christians believe, that Jesus Christ died for all, God loves all, and really wishes all of us to be saved, provided we too are willing to do His Will.

I don't know who told you otherwise, but I'm Catholic, and the Catholic Church doesn't teach TULIP. Like, not at all.

T for Total Depravity? Church rejects it. Teaches we have freedom of the will and are not "totally depraved"
U for Unconditional Election? God's Election is Gracious/undeserved but not unconditional. Also, Catholics, following St. Augustine, distinguish Justification and Salvation. Justification is by Faith, Salvation by Perseverance in Faith until Death.
L for Limited Atonement: It should be clear enough from this thread that Catholics like me reject it. If you want, I can cite Church Doctors of Theology like St. Augustine, St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Francis De Sales etc who say the same.
I for Irresistible Grace: Again, God's Grace is powerful, but only sweetly invites us to convert, first to faith, and then to holiness. It does not compel or force us. You know, forced love is no love at all. We call a man who "forces love" a rapist. God doesn't force anyone to love Him. But His Powerful Grace, when not resisted, impels us powerfully to freely love Him.
P for Perseverance of the Saints: Again, Calvin understands this as OSAS. According to him, Justification and Salvation are the same, and all the Justified necessarily persevere, which is contrary to many Biblical passages like Heb 6, Heb 10 and 2 Pet 2. I'll give the verses if you ask, but I think you'll know the passages.

Catholics go with St. Augustine again on this question, an Early Church Father/Bishop and Theologian well respected by many denominations and, ironically, Calvin himself. We believe Salvation=Justification+Perseverance. Hence, after Justification, we must pray for the Gift or Grace of Perseverance, and patiently wait for God to give it to us, which He will do before death.

Here is Wiki on that: "Augustine defined perseverance as gift by which one perseveres up to the end of their lives, if a person dies as a believer they had been given the gift, but if one dies as an unbeliever, even if he used to once believe, he did not have this gift given. Augustine believed that the gift can be received through prayer, but when one person has the gift, they can't lose it.[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gift_of_perseverance

God Bless.

 

[Cameron143]

I understand God's will as being tripartite ~

Moral
Permissive
Sovereign

I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me. I declare the end from the beginning,
and ancient times from what is still to come. I say, ‘My purpose will stand, and all My good pleasure I will
accomplish.’ I summon a bird of prey from the east, a man for My purpose from a far-off land. Truly I have
spoken, and truly I will bring it to pass. I have planned it, and I will surely do it. Isaiah 46:9b-11

Isaiah 46:10

I don't disagree. But trying to get others to receive your message and not reject out of hand but allow for future discourse requires baby steps. If you are going to be so mature you will disrupt this delicate balance and create a tear in the information force and what then?

 

[John146]

He hasnt accomplished everything God willed for Him to accomplish of some whom God willed to be saved arent saved. Its Christs responsibility to save who the Father wills to be saved. And if some God willed to be saved arent saved, Gods will went unfulfilled. The believe does always gives thanks by imputation, did Christ always give thanks while He was here living on earth ? Yes or No

Do you give thanks in everything? Really? Sorry, every believer does not always give thanks. Paul is writing this to encourage the believers to always give thanks because it doesn't come automatically.

 

[John146]

He hasnt accomplished everything God willed for Him to accomplish of some whom God willed to be saved arent saved. Its Christs responsibility to save who the Father wills to be saved. And if some God willed to be saved arent saved, Gods will went unfulfilled. The believe does always gives thanks by imputation, did Christ always give thanks while He was here living on earth ? Yes or No

Why did Paul call the Corinthian believers, babes in Christ? Because there were divisions and strife among them and all kinds of sin. Was that God's will for those Corinthians? Nope. This is why we need scripture...to correct, to reprove, to instruct in righteousness that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto every good work.

 

[Magenta]

I don't disagree. But trying to get others to receive your message and not reject out of hand but allow for future discourse requires baby steps. If you are going to be so mature you will disrupt this delicate balance and create a tear in the information force and what then?

This comes to mind:

Art by XernonaEcho called A Rip in the Space Time Continuum