Does God desire the salvation of all mankind?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
As long as you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that it was GOD who raised Jesus from the dead you will be saved. That’s an important distinction people seem to gloss over or entirely miss altogether.

Your statement reeks of eternal salvation by works.

I don't know if you have a concordance, but if you do, look up the meaning of the word "saved" in this scripture.

God's born again children are saved (delivered) here in time, by confessing, and believing, but they have no bearing on one's eternal deliverance.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
1 Timothy2 :

I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. 7 And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.
 
Nov 26, 2021
1,125
545
113
India
1 Timothy2 :

I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. 7 And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.
Amen.
 
Nov 26, 2021
1,125
545
113
India
See another verse proving Jesus Christ offered His Life as a Sacrifice for all - yes, including even Judas. Judas refused to receive it, and even when Jesus washed his feet, he refused to kiss Christ's Feet, and weep like the woman did, and repent. If he had, he could have been saved, by Christ's Blood. Since he didn't, therefore he wasn't. Even after his betrayal, if he had repented, and come to the Cross, and kissed Christ's Feet, in contrition, faith, humility, tears and repentance, the Blood of Christ would have fallen on him and washed him from his sins. But he did not. Here is the passage in 1 John 2:2.

"1 John 2:2 (KJV): "And He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

Which means, He offered His Life as a Propitiation, or Atoning Sacrifice, for the sins of the whole world. But some refused ...
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
"From ignorance of spiritual things" has no reference in this context. The context is about going to heaven or not.

Romans 10
5Moses writes this about the righteousness that is by the law: “The person who does these things will live by them.” 6But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7“or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.


The first verse of Romans 10:1-3 might give you a clearer view that salvation by works, is a false doctrine, which you are promoting.

Paul is praying for Israel (God's people, the lost sheep of the house of Israel) that they may be saved (delivered) from their dependence upon the law of Moses.

Paul says that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge, for they being ignorant of God's righteousness (the new law), and are going about to establish their own righteousness, having not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
 

Ted01

Well-known member
May 14, 2022
1,055
448
83
You are misinterpreting Rom 1, these are born again people who have backslid. (the lost sheep of the house of Israel) and do still have the promise of their eternal inheritance. They are in need of repentance to regain their fellowship with their God.
I think otherwise in regard to who Paul was talking about in this portion of Romans...

Rom. 1:16-22 (ESV)16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.” 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world,[g] in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.

Paul clearly is talking about both Jew and Gentile... ergo, all of mankind. Further, Paul says 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. Meaning that there is no particular type of "men" that is excluded.

I hope that you'll rethink your view for the Glory of God.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
You’re saved THEN you have faith?

We are saved (delivered) from our sins on the cross. When we are born into this world, by natural birth, we are dead in our sin, until God quickens us to the new spiritual life, (Eph 2:1-5) which includes the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, of whom we receive spiritual faith, which is a fruit of the Holy Spirit (Gal 5:22).

The natural man does not have spiritual faith, until he has been born again. (1 Cor 2:14).
 

NOV25

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2019
995
390
63
I believe that must have been your conversion (turn about).
That’s correct. I was horrific but God…

Ephesians 2:1-10

And you were dead in the trespasses and sins [2] in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—[3] among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. [4] But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, [5] even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—[6] and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, [7] so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. [8] For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast. [10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
The first verse of Romans 10:1-3 might give you a clearer view that salvation by works, is a false doctrine, which you are promoting.

Paul is praying for Israel (God's people, the lost sheep of the house of Israel) that they may be saved (delivered) from their dependence upon the law of Moses.

Paul says that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge, for they being ignorant of God's righteousness (the new law), and are going about to establish their own righteousness, having not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
It isn’t about being saved from ignorance of spiritual things though. All they need to do is be informed about what the spiritual things are.

Romans 10 is about salvation, it’s in the first verse.

Romans 10
1Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is for their salvation.

Head knowledge about spiritual things isn’t salvation and is useless. The goal is for them to have faith for salvation of their souls.

Romans 10
6But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ (that is, to bring Christ down)7or, ‘Who will descend into the Abyss?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).”
8But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,”that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming:9that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with your heart you believe and are justified, and with your mouth you confess and are saved.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
Your statement reeks of eternal salvation by works.

I don't know if you have a concordance, but if you do, look up the meaning of the word "saved" in this scripture.

God's born again children are saved (delivered) here in time, by confessing, and believing, but they have no bearing on one's eternal deliverance.
Do you consider Paul’s instruction to say something with your mouth a work? How about choosing to have faith in something? Both require some kind of exertion, whether mental or physical, and are therefore work.

There are different kinds of works. There are “works of the Law” which are the kind of works that salvation does not come by. There are works of the flesh, also a kind of work that salvation does not come by. There are good works and there are the works that God requires. God requires you to do something.

Also, we should try to get a way from just saying “works” without really explaining what we mean. Works is a biblical buzz word and people conflate it with naughty things all too often. Works is just a way of saying a deed, a labor, an action. Read James for the kind of works God requires.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
Jesus Christ is telling them the reason they are going to Hell. According to you, He should have said, "oops, sorry, guys, you lost the Heavenly Lottery! I chose 10% and damned all the remaining 90%, and you just had the bad luck to be the latter".

Do you think that you are a mind reader? I would advise you not try to make a living off of it, because you are not informed in the scriptures enough to know that there are many more that will inhabit heaven, than there are that will inhabit hell.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
I think otherwise in regard to who Paul was talking about in this portion of Romans...

Rom. 1:16-22 (ESV)16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.” 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world,[g] in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.

Paul clearly is talking about both Jew and Gentile... ergo, all of mankind. Further, Paul says 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. Meaning that there is no particular type of "men" that is excluded.

I hope that you'll rethink your view for the Glory of God.

You must have the truth, before you can suppress it.

Read about the natural man in 1 Cor 2:14, and tell me if he has the truth

This relates to the house of Israel,(God's people) who turned away from God, and worshiped idols, whom God blinded them to see the truth, until they repent.

If we do not see, from these scriptures, how nasty we are, when we are walking in the flesh, then we have missed the message of these scriptures,.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
1Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is for their salvation.

The failure to know that the salvation scriptures are deliverance scriptures is a stumbling block to most on this forum.

Most of the salvation scriptures are referencing deliverances that the child of God receives as he sojourns here on earth.

To interpret them all to have reference to eternal deliverance will tend to teach eternal salvation by works, which you are promoting.
 
Nov 26, 2021
1,125
545
113
India
Friend, I am not a mind reader. I was pointing out an implication of Limited Atonement. Let's say it was 60-40 and the point would still stand. Also, tell me one thing, what if God did not die for you? What if He does not love you and does not want you to be saved? According to you, He does not want all to be saved, so that is possible within your worldview.

According to me, and most of us, I think, who've responded on this thread, God clearly says He wants everyone to be saved.

Let's examine 3 verses:

1) God, "who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth." (1 Tim 2:4)

2) "He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." (2 Pet 3:9)

3) Christ died for everyone's sins, not just yours and mine:
"He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world." (1 Jn 2:2)

Please quote these 3 verses in your response and give us your exegesis of them. Then we can move forward. Thanks.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
Do you consider Paul’s instruction to say something with your mouth a work? How about choosing to have faith in something? Both require some kind of exertion, whether mental or physical, and are therefore work.

There are different kinds of works. There are “works of the Law” which are the kind of works that salvation does not come by. There are works of the flesh, also a kind of work that salvation does not come by. There are good works and there are the works that God requires. God requires you to do something.

Also, we should try to get a way from just saying “works” without really explaining what we mean. Works is a biblical buzz word and people conflate it with naughty things all too often. Works is just a way of saying a deed, a labor, an action. Read James for the kind of works God requires.

I am not excluding works. God commands good works as instructions for his born again children of God to live their lives by, as they sojourn here on earth, but God does not require good works as a pathway to secure eternal deliverance.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,661
5,908
113
I was saved after an extremely sinful 38 years.
“And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at meat in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster box of ointment, and stood at his feet behind him weeping, and began to wash his feet with tears, and did wipe them with the hairs of her head, and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment. Now when the Pharisee which had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself, saying, This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner. And Jesus answering said unto him, Simon, I have somewhat to say unto thee. And he saith, Master, say on. There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty. And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most? Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged. And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon, Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head. Thou gavest me no kiss: but this woman since the time I came in hath not ceased to kiss my feet. My head with oil thou didst not anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment. Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭7:37-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬


same boat we’re all in brother , 38 years 12 years fifty years we are the prodigal everyone just needs to remember home and who is there

but today is always the day that matters

“Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, In the day of temptation in the wilderness: Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, And said, They do alway err in their heart; And they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; while it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭3:7-8, 10-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we learn lessons from the ot lessons happen when we take it to heart what the Bible is teaching us to believe ( faith )

“Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them;

as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink,

and rose up to play.

Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.

Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.

Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭10:6-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

salvation comes into our mind and heart because we hear and believe what Jesus said in the gospel

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

as believers who believe Jesus died for us need to start getting to know him by hearing and sharing the witnesses of the gospel , We’re able to hear, whether that is to share what we know about Jesus “dying for sin and being raised up to life “

some people really have a good understanding of that and good solid faith in it they should share that it’s the gospel , is when they go beyond that and start saying things to eliminate the word of the lord and his authority from the gospel pertaining to salvation they are subverting faith

It will always be true “Jesus died for my sins and was raised to life for my justification “

And the rest of the gospel the words of the lord teaching us what to believe about salvation , about him , about our own self , about our fellow man both male and female, he teaches us all the promises we believe all the comfort and assurance we can have if we just start letting Jesus teach us because we believe in him.

It doesn’t matter how much we grasp but how much we let be true the place to begin is Jesus law of mercy forgive and youll be forgiven said Jesus the Lord

It’s okay for us to say “ I believe Jesus died for my sins and I also believe what he said as he was headed to the cross that he said would save my living soul

that’s a covenant you tell everyone the covenant word and then you shed the blood of remission for the covenant
 

Snacks

Well-known member
Feb 10, 2022
1,410
771
113
The argument would be that one is made alive spiritually or regenerated and then are able to respond to spiritual reality
The same people probably agree with handing someone a parachute and pushing them out of an airplane telling them they’ll figure it out.
 

Snacks

Well-known member
Feb 10, 2022
1,410
771
113
We are saved (delivered) from our sins on the cross. When we are born into this world, by natural birth, we are dead in our sin, until God quickens us to the new spiritual life, (Eph 2:1-5) which includes the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, of whom we receive spiritual faith, which is a fruit of the Holy Spirit (Gal 5:22).

The natural man does not have spiritual faith, until he has been born again. (1 Cor 2:14).
The Ethiopian was a natural man who responded to reading and hearing the word.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,661
5,908
113
you asked “ does man cause regeneration by choosing to believe and receive the holt spirit ? “

Im saying this does

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s why he preached the gospel for a couple years and then later started teaching bout his death and resurrection in Jerusalem we need to hear the word to be born again so Jesus did this

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

said this

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And after his resurrection in Israel commanded all who believed in him to do this

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

To this end for his creation

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Salvation is free to anyone who converts to Christianity in truth and sincerity anyone in the world can hear the gospel and be saved some won’t hear or others will

God is just and fair so each person has to be judged for thier life between only Jesus and them one day salvation is when we start hearing and believing him now about important eternal matters

We don’t have to be perfect because of the sacrifice of Christ Jesus

we do have to be forgiving and merciful , and we do have to hear Jesus word and believe and follow where that leads us
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,661
5,908
113
The same people probably agree with handing someone a parachute and pushing them out of an airplane telling them they’ll figure it out.
what if they simply didn’t know this part

“but they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭40:31‬ ‭KJV‬‬