Why Do We Pretend to know when JESUS was BORN?

[Papermonkey]

This is true for ALL of us, not one individual. He makes a lot of good points, but I think sometimes he likes to take things to the extreme... but I know a LOT of people that do that. I think he and I agree on more than we disagree on....
and I would NEVER accuse someone of being dead to grace..... that is not my call to make... it's WAY above our pay grade.

Righteous judgement is Biblical. And I believe how someone comports themselves at all times while presenting a defense of their understanding of scripture is subject to scrutiny when the persona of one who is suppose to be indwelt by God's Holy Spirit is inconsistent in demonstrating grace and his peace.

Not everyone on-line who says they're in Christ are.
Jesus knew who was of the Devil when he judged the Pharisee's being of their father the Devil.

 

[hornetguy]

Jesus knew who was of the Devil when he judged the Pharisee's being of their father the Devil.

Yes. That was Jesus.
The problem with "righteous judgment" is that it so often becomes self-righteous judgment.
It is not the place of believers to establish the salvation status of other believers.

 

[Papermonkey]

Yes. That was Jesus.
The problem with "righteous judgment" is that it so often becomes self-righteous judgment.
It is not the place of believers to establish the salvation status of other believers.

Status, no.
That's not what my observation concerned.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Jesus Christ could read hearts. We cannot. For us, it should be enough to say, I believe XYZ and here are verses ABC why I do.

Jesus Christ alone can read hearts:

Jer 17:10 “I the LORD search the heart and examine the mind, to reward each person according to their conduct, according to what their deeds deserve.”

Rev 2:23: "... I am the One who searches minds and hearts, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds."

 

[hornetguy]

Status, no.
That's not what my observation concerned.

This is turning into a silly argument, but I will address this last statement.... you DID question his status when you implied he was not in the proper state of grace... that is what I took issue with.
You can have the last word, and we can drop it.

 

[Papermonkey]

Jesus Christ could read hearts. We cannot. For us, it should be enough to say, I believe XYZ and here are verses ABC why I do.

Jesus Christ alone can read hearts:

Jer 17:10 “I the LORD search the heart and examine the mind, to reward each person according to their conduct, according to what their deeds deserve.”

Rev 2:23: "... I am the One who searches minds and hearts, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds."

Has that typically,consistently, been the case on this particular board?

 

[WillB]

There is no scriptural support for celebrating our birthdays either, but I wish you a happy WillB-mas anyway.

So please do tell me what is the basis for celebrating your birthday?

 

[oyster67]

So please do tell me what is the basis for celebrating your birthday?

The limited number of them that I have left.

 

[WillB]

I found nothing in the Anglican doctrine statements that requires any celebration of any kind.
The earlist writings we have concerning the celebration of Christmas dates to 336 ad. This writing is a letter that casually refers to the Christmas celebration. It reads as if the intended reader would know exactly what was being spoken of and therefore implies that it was common practice. Christmas hate began in the puritan circles in about the 1600s and was banned in 1644. But they didnt mind murdering folks they didnt like, accusing them of witchery and then burn them alive. (Much like the RCC, they made up rules to control folks' life and if they didnt adhere murder them). In my opinion that excludes them from setting christian standards.
As for what celebrating is found in the Bible. I find Angels, shepards, and wise men celebrating the incarnation of God on earth in Human flesh.
As for what you find the disciples doing; i dont find them setting in pews, or using hymnals, or pianoes or organs, nor rock bands playing soft rock as praise music, nor pulpits, or stages, or fellowship halls or childrens church or sunday school, or bible study or alter calls, also ya dont find personal Bibles. Also you see no examples of communing women. So lets skip the arguments from silence.
I know you dont really care what i have to say amd that it wont change your mind. Im only writing this for the sake of others who may read it.

WB: You found nothing in Anglican doctrines about celebrating Christmas ....But nonetheless the mainstream church does celebrate that festival ...and apparently so do you.

You can find no Scriptural references for Jesus and/or His apostles and early disciples celebrating that festival and you admit that it wasn't until 336 AD that the festival was instituted. And you have nothing to say about the only annual Remembrance of the Lord's Supper as it's called on Nisan 14 after sundown which replaced the Passover instructions given to Moses and which had to be remembered annually on that same date. Given that Paul saw fit - under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit - to make mention of that annual Remembrance it is most telling that he was silent on Christmas....because neither he nor any other Christians at that time celebrated a festival that hadn't been instituted by God.

 

[WillB]

I can certainly see the validity of that argument... I don't agree with it, personally, but I can see how one could understand it that way.
There are other scriptures that hint/indicate that the early church partook in it more frequently.
Where we often run aground is the term "break bread".... it was used interchangeably for a regular meal, and for the communion.
The apostolic fathers pretty much unanimously wrote about the brethren gathering together to "break bread" on the first day of the week.... and many scholars agree that in most cases, they were describing communion.

and, the instruction of "as often as you do this...." leads me to think that we could, if we wished, partake of communion EVERY day.
In fact, at least one of the apostolic fathers indicated that was his practice....

For me, the bottom line is... we NEED to "commune" with each other and with God, remembering the sacrifice that our Lord and savior made for us. How much of that would be too much? Is once a year often enough to proclaim Jesus' death to the rest of the world?

WB: None of which supports the worldview of celebrating Christmas.

Another forum member has tacitly admitted there's no Scriptural support for Jesus and His apostles and early disciples celebrating Christmas and that the earliest record is 336 AD. Whether the Early Church Fathers celebrated that festival - IF that is the case and maybe it's the case they didn't or maybe only some did - is not the issue. The only thing that counts is truth.

The Lord's Evening Meal/Supper was instituted for the purpose of the New Covenant by none other than Jesus Christ Himself to replace the old covenant and IF He wanted His followers to celebrate His birthday I will dare to say He would have instituted that festival. But he didn't.

 

[WillB]

The limited number of them that I have left.

Okay. A purely personal emotional need with no basis in Scripture...much like the emotional need for a Santa Claus and feelgood.

But as Marx said - Groucho, not Karl - there ain't no Sanity Clause.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

You'll never find a time RA isn't willing to argue. I think he sees it as a gift. smh

He is a good guy. He is doctrinally; fairly sound. He is very allergic to organized religion especially the RCC. Which is understandable, for uncountable reasons.

 

[oyster67]

I say it is a good thing to celebrate Jesus every day (that would include December 25, I think.)

 

[oyster67]

Okay. A purely personal emotional need with no basis in Scripture...much like the emotional need for a Santa Claus and feelgood.

But as Marx said - Groucho, not Karl - there ain't no Sanity Clause.

Comparing Jesus to Santa???? You had better take a closer look at that sanity clause.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

WB: None of which supports the worldview of celebrating Christmas.

Another forum member has tacitly admitted there's no Scriptural support for Jesus and His apostles and early disciples celebrating Christmas and that the earliest record is 336 AD. Whether the Early Church Fathers celebrated that festival - IF that is the case and maybe it's the case they didn't or maybe only some did - is not the issue. The only thing that counts is truth.

The Lord's Evening Meal/Supper was instituted for the purpose of the New Covenant by none other than Jesus Christ Himself to replace the old covenant and IF He wanted His followers to celebrate His birthday I will dare to say He would have instituted that festival. But he didn't.

I have already been over this with you. There is no reason for you to ever address me in any post or thread. Other than to be an antagonist. As i said before; we are done. We habe no conversation. Thanknyou good bye.

 

[oyster67]

Okay. A purely personal emotional need with no basis in Scripture...much like the emotional need for a Santa Claus and feelgood.

All this Santa-bashing is going to cost you some friends.

 

[BroTan]

Glad to read God's Word at any time. But that also has nothing to do with the subject of Christmas trees. There is nothing wrong with having a Christmas tree, nothing Biblically against it. If you don't partake that is up to you. But there is nothing in the Word that forbids it.





Yeah again, amen to the Word but maybe stop twisting it so badly out of context. It has nothing to do with the tree.

So you go and buy I tree or cut one down and install it in your home. Put a star on the top of it. Where are the stars? In the sky, which is called Heaven also. And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. (Genesis 1:14-16) Then you fix the tree to look good, buy gifts and put it under the tree. Every time you put a gift under that tree you bow down to it.

Also it’s written Daniel 5: 22 And thou his son, O Belshazzar, hast not humbled thine heart, though thou knewest all this; 23but hast lifted up thyself against the Lord of heaven; and they have brought the vessels of his house before thee, and thou, and thy lords, thy wives, and thy concubines, have drunk wine in them; and thou hast praised the gods of silver, and gold, of brass, iron, wood, and stone, which see not, nor hear, nor know: and the God in whose hand thy breath is, and whose are all thy ways, hast thou not glorified:

Now what is the tree mage out of, Wood.

"Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers that it move not. They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. (Jeremiah 10: 1-5)

 

[kinda]

Christ-Mass is a Catholic Holiday. A mass is a Catholic service and at one time it was banned in America, because America was once a very Protestant nation, but now I think the Protestant culture is pretty much gone, except maybe the Bible Belt. Even so, Christmas is pretty much celebrated by atheist, Catholics, and most Christians.

"Although some evidence suggests that his birth may have occurred in the spring (why would shepherds be herding in the middle of winter?), Pope Julius I chose December 25. It is commonly believed that the church chose this date in an effort to adopt and absorb the traditions of the pagan Saturnalia festival". Google search

After realizing what Biblical Holidays verses Catholic Holidays, I was lead to believe that Jesus was most likely born in the Feast of Tabernacles, but Johnathan Cahn has said, the most likely time when Jesus was born was in the Jewish New Year, or during the Passover Holiday.

Since April 1st in April fools day, I'm thinking that Jesus was born during Passover, because the world doesn't like Jesus, or his people.


Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also. John 15:20

When he saw Jesus passing by, he said, “Look, the Lamb of God!” John 1:36


Here is Johnathan Cahn pointing to the Jewish New Year or Passover.

Here is a video pointing to Feast of Tabernacles.

Michael Rood usually does a good job of uncovering things, so throwing this one in there also.

 

[Cameron143]

All this Santa-bashing is going to cost you some friends.

And earn a spot on the naughty list.

 

[kaylagrl]

He is a good guy. He is doctrinally; fairly sound. He is very allergic to organized religion especially the RCC. Which is understandable, for uncountable reasons.

Well apparently you haven't seen some of the people he's gone after on here. Nor his beliefs on Pentecostals. I'll believe RA is a "good guy" when I see a change of heart.