Divorce?

[BillG]

As a man who has suffered the fallout of a divorce in the family it's devastating and attaches so much baggage.

My mum (before she threw me out) was married 3 times and divorced and in between had sexual relations with other men as her then husband's did (my step dad)

One of my worst memories was when my step dad and mum came home after being out on the piss they were arguing and my step dad locked her out of the apartment.

She could not get in so she put her hand through the glass panel of the door.

I was awake because I heard what was going one.

She screams in pain and asked for help.
I got up and went to the door and my step dad was there.

Rather than help he shouts "I hope you die you f*****g b****tch. Then goes to bed.

At the age of 12 this young boy had to deal with this and comfort his younger brothers and his mum.

That's one of 3

Think about that when blanket saying that divorce is not a option unless physical adultery has happened.

 

[presidente]

“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

is what Jesus said in the gospel only for males ?

and is it okay for men to cheat on thier wives but not okay for a woman to cheat on her husband ?

Jesus commented on Moses' law in Matthew 19. Moses did not allow women to divorce their husbands with a certificate. Polygyny was also regulated in the Old Testament, but polyandry was not allowed.

But there are plenty of scriptures that clarify that both men and women are to be sexually moral.

 

[Dino246]

… Think about that when blanket saying that divorce is not a option unless physical adultery has happened.

The like is for your last sentence… the rest of your experience must have been terrible.

 

[BillG]

The like is for your last sentence… the rest of your experience must have been terrible.

Thank you brother.

Yes it was terrible.
The one thing I hold on to

Romans 8:28-30
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

It saddens me because I have heard the above quoted many times but only verse 28.

God promises to work good in all things?
Yes he does but I have heard people say he can make good what has happened.
You cannot make good of sin and to say so is abhorrent.

He works good in us by healing us and in doing so he conforms us to be like Jesus and do what we have been called to do.

That is to

Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Don't limit it to a man.

Your last paragraph I agree with you but as I say above dont limit it to the man.

I agree but most often it's the man beating up the wife and kids. But you're right, it goes both ways.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Thinking out of the box?

Amen to that.

That is what I was trying to convey.

I think I get what you are trying to convey and certainly a pause for thought for me.

Father bless you my precious brother in Jesus.

amen brother I think often my ways aren’t understood mostly always in just trying to envoke thought by presenting scripture that I myself think could be relevant

i do that because I believe that’s how God opens our mind from glory to glory and faith to faith in his time and by his word

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Thank you brother.

Yes it was terrible.
The one thing I hold on to

Romans 8:28-30
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

It saddens me because I have heard the above quoted many times but only verse 28.

God promises to work good in all things?
Yes he does but I have heard people say he can make good what has happened.
You cannot make good of sin and to say so is abhorrent.

He works good in us by healing us and in doing so he conforms us to be like Jesus and do what we have been called to do.

That is to

Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Absolutely wonderful thoughts and heart !!!

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Jesus commented on Moses' law in Matthew 19. Moses did not allow women to divorce their husbands with a certificate. Polygyny was also regulated in the Old Testament, but polyandry was not allowed.

But there are plenty of scriptures that clarify that both men and women are to be sexually moral.

“Moses did not allow women to divorce their husbands with a certificate”

Brother to explain what Moses taught you have to read Moses law it’s found from exodus to Deuteronomy here’s what Moses said about divorce

“When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.

And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife. And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife; her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭24:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this is what Jesus said

“And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you? And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away. ( they were absolutely right as you see above )

And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.

( Jesus recalls Eden and the true law of God regarding marriage before transgression )

But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; and they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter.

And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭10:3-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Moses said ot was fine to remarry Jesus says no that’s not right , it’s contrary go ahead and divorce if your not happy and remarry V no that’s not right that’s for hard hearted sinners , but in Jesus say unto you this true other thing not from transgression

 

[Shilo]

I believe divorce is not God's plan but he allows divorce because of the hardness of people's hearts.

Jer 3:1 “If a man divorces his wife and she leaves him and marries another man, should he return to her again? Would not the land be completely defiled? But you have lived as a prostitute with many lovers— would you now return to me?” declares the LORD.

Jer 3:8 I gave faithless Israel her certificate of divorce and sent her away because of all her adulteries. Yet I saw that her unfaithful sister Judah had no fear; she also went out and committed adultery.

Deut 24 1 If a man marries a woman who becomes displeasing to him because he finds something indecent about her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house,
2 and if after she leaves his house she becomes the wife of another man,
3 and her second husband dislikes her and writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, or if he dies,
4 then her first husband, who divorced her, is not allowed to marry her again after she has been defiled. That would be detestable in the eyes of the LORD. Do not bring sin upon the land the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance.

Lev 22:13 But if a priest’s daughter with no children becomes widowed or divorced and returns to her father’s house, she may share her father’s food as in her youth. But no outsider may share it.


1 cor 7:15But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so. In such cases the brother or sister is not enslaved. God has called you to peace.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

I would not advise any woman to stay in a marriage with a physically/ verbally abusive husband. Unfortunately, the ideal situation is lacking in some marriages.

Or the converse. Surprisingly there are men in relationships with physical and emotionally abusive women.

 

[tourist]

Or the converse. Surprisingly there are men in relationships with physical and emotionally abusive women.

Yeah, I was the recipient of that in my first marriage which ended in divorce.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Yeah, I was the recipient of that in my first marriage which ended in divorce.

Im very sorry. That is very rough. The good news is that you are relentant amd Jesus is forgiving and you are free.

 

[NOV25]

Thanks for all the feedback!

Don’t forget to vote please. I’m interested to see what is the majority/minority positions are. Thanks again.

 

[NOV25]

I chose "sexual infidelity" instead of "any reasonable cause", but I'll explain that:

I feel that "any reasonable cause" is too vague and open-ended. One person's "reasonable" is often another person's "frivolous".

On the other hand, I believe that sexual infidelity, physical abuse, severe verbal abuse and abandonment (or any combination thereof) are all suitable grounds for divorce. Doesn't mean that a divorce MUST take place, but rather that it should be an option on the table.

I hear you.
Just choose whichever one most closely describes your position.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Thanks for all the feedback!

Don’t forget to vote please. I’m interested to see what is the majority/minority positions are. Thanks again.

Your options arent nuanced enough. Complicated matters are not that cut and dry.

 

[NOV25]

Your options arent nuanced enough. Complicated matters are not that cut and dry.

What do you believe scripture teaches?
1. Under no circumstance.
2. For reasonable cause such as sexual immorality or physical abuse etc.
3. Sexual immorality only.
4. I don’t know.

 

[presidente]

“Moses did not allow women to divorce their husbands with a certificate”

Brother to explain what Moses taught you have to read Moses law it’s found from exodus to Deuteronomy here’s what Moses said about divorce

“When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.

And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife. And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife; her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭24:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this is what Jesus said

“And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you? And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away. ( they were absolutely right as you see above )

And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.

( Jesus recalls Eden and the true law of God regarding marriage before transgression )

But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; and they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter.

And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭10:3-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Moses said ot was fine to remarry Jesus says no that’s not right , it’s contrary go ahead and divorce if your not happy and remarry V no that’s not right that’s for hard hearted sinners , but in Jesus say unto you this true other thing not from transgression

I don't know enough Hebrew to know which translation is right, but the way the NIV renders it, the law of Moses lays out a scenario, then commands the wife in such a scenario not to remarry her first husband after marrying another man. That part is presented as the command. It may be that the Pharisees in Matthew 19 went with the idea your translation espouses, that it commands 'let him give her a writing of divorcement'.... but Christ responded that Moses because of the hardness of your hearts ____allowed__ divorce. Notice the question in Matthew 19, why did Moses command..., then Jesus said because of the hardness of your hearts, allowed....

Deuteronomy 24 in the NIV,

1If a man marries a woman who becomes displeasing to him because he finds something indecent about her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house,2and if after she leaves his house she becomes the wife of another man,3and her second husband dislikes her and writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, or if he dies,4then her first husband, who divorced her, is not allowed to marry her again after she has been defiled. That would be detestable in the eyes of the LORD. Do not bring sin upon the land the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance.


The first three verses there are narrative, not command as in 'let him', in this translation. I am not normally a big fan of the NIV, but I found this rendition interesting.

 

[justahumanbeing]

Paul encouraged people to get married to prevent fornication, if they could not contain. It is better to marry than to burn.

Paul gives marriage as an alternative instead of burning with passion. Yes, you're right on that. But, he did say. "It would better for everyone to be as I am." This is in 1 Corinthians Chapter 7 verse 7 I think.

In the same way, there's a conversation in Matthew Chapter 19 about divorce. And in verses 10 to 12, Jesus gives the teaching about living without marriage and adds, "let those who can accept this, accept it."

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yeah, I was the recipient of that in my first marriage which ended in divorce.

Im very sorry. That is very rough. The good news is that you are relentant amd Jesus is forgiving and you are free.

Àmen Jesus encounters a woman who's been married 5 times and was currwntly with a man not her husband in John Chapter 4 it's an amazing chain of events that follows


God isn't about what we did before but what we do from the point we hear Jesus and I mean hear and it sinks into us and becomes a conviction

We don't want to hear Jesus teachongs and apply them to wats already behind us but a woman on say a third marriage when she hears the gospel it's then that she needs to honor it as if her passed sins are gone so she would want to honor her current marriage and forget what's behind so she doesn't think her new marriage is adulterous but accepts an honors the gospel now that she hears
the past

 

[NOV25]

“Moses did not allow women to divorce their husbands with a certificate”

Brother to explain what Moses taught you have to read Moses law it’s found from exodus to Deuteronomy here’s what Moses said about divorce

“When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.

And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife. And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife; her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭24:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this is what Jesus said

“And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you? And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away. ( they were absolutely right as you see above )

And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.

( Jesus recalls Eden and the true law of God regarding marriage before transgression )

But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; and they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter.

And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭10:3-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Moses said ot was fine to remarry Jesus says no that’s not right , it’s contrary go ahead and divorce if your not happy and remarry V no that’s not right that’s for hard hearted sinners , but in Jesus say unto you this true other thing not from transgression

Would you expound on that last paragraph, your synopsis? Just want to make sure we all understand your position.

“Moses said is was fine to remarry but Jesus says no that’s not right…that’s for the hard hearted sinners…”