All I can say is I agree. However, the passage says He is able. I still don't see anything about eternal security.
Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked
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All I can say is I agree. However, the passage says He is able. I still don't see anything about eternal security.
Eternal Security is based on the quality of the Redemption that Christs Blood provided or effected Heb 9:12
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
This redemption effects liberation from the penalty and power of sin, hence no one for whom its redeems can ever come back under the penalty or power of sin, without it being a detriment to Christs Own Blood. So those who would say Christ died for an individual and that individual comes back under the power of sin, thats an attack on the Blood of Christ !
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
This redemption effects liberation from the penalty and power of sin, hence no one for whom its redeems can ever come back under the penalty or power of sin, without it being a detriment to Christs Own Blood. So those who would say Christ died for an individual and that individual comes back under the power of sin, thats an attack on the Blood of Christ !
When does one lose salvation? At what point? I may have missed this in previous posts.
This an eloquent post, and true up to a point. Christ obtained eternal redemption but it's only available through faith. You're confusing Christ's eternal redemption with eternal security. No faith, no obedience, no salvation.
Fortunately, I'm not the one who has to answer that question. It's a question of a person's faith and heart. God sees the heart.
I see myself getting drawn into something I really don't have the time for, so I'm done. Carry on without me.
Eternal redemption IS eternal security.
John 15:-5-6
I am the vine and you are the branches. The one who remains in Me, and I in him, will bear much fruit. For apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not remain in Me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers. Such branches are gathered up, thrown into the fire, and burned.
Being confident of this very thing, that He which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.
False. Redemption is a done deal for them Christ shed His Blood for, and it provides Faith, faith is proof that they been redeemed from the power of sin and the devil. What you are insinuating is the Christs own Blood isnt effective unless a person believes.
No Faith, No obedience from an individual means Christ didn't die for them, He never redeemed them.
The Holy Spirit is Salvation. If we have the Holy Spirit, we have Salvation. If we die having the Holy Spirit, we go to Heaven. But we can lose the Holy Spirit by serious and willful sins. There are many examples of this in the Gospels and elsewhere.
Take the Kings of Israel: Saul, David and Solomon. Did they lose the Holy Spirit at any point in their lives. Saul almost certainly did. David did when he sinned but then received Him back and was saved. Solomon too. Otherwise, the Holy Spirit would not have inspired King David to write: "10Create in me a pure heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit within me.11Do not cast me from your presence or take your Holy Spirit from me.12Restore to me the joy of your salvation and grant me a willing spirit, to sustain me.13Then I will teach transgressors your ways, and sinners will turn back to you." (Psa 51).
King David confessed and repented of his sin, and he was forgiven as it says in 2 Chron 7:14 as well as 1 Jn 1:9.
In the NT, we see numerous examples, from Christ Himself, of persons committing serious sins, not repenting, and being lost, though they were originally forgiven/justified.
Mat 18:
"32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.
Here the Master is very clear that He first forgave that servant. He says the servant should have forgiven his brother/neighbor even as he himself was forgiven by God/Christ. But that servant refused to do so. Hence, he was lost.
Luk 12:
42And the Lord said, “Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his master will make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of food in due season? 43Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. 44Truly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all that he has.
45But if that servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and be drunk, 46the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
47And that servant who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more.
Here the Lord says (1) the servant who faithfully perseveres in doing the Master's Will till death/the Lord's Return will receive Salvation, be rewarded for it, made ruler of all things etc. (2) but that same servant if he does not patiently wait for the Lord's Coming, and falls into drunkenness, and abuses the other servants etc, will be punished by the Lord and lose Salvation. The Lord says this servant will now have the same place as unbelievers, i.e. hell. (3) in the final portion, the Lord says, the more we know, by e.g. reading the Word, the more faithfully we are obliged to practice what we know. Those who do not know will be beaten with fewer stripes. But those who do know, but did not obey, more. Let us try to follow the e.g. of the first faithful servant who faithfully obeyed the Lord, not for a single hour, but until his own death, or the Lord's Coming.
God Bless.
Finally gave up on your “who justifies the ungodly” thread?
Saw you talking to yourself over there for a few weeks.
Exactly. The word redemption in Heb 9:12 is the word lytrōsisEternal redemption IS eternal security.
- a ransoming, redemption
- deliverance, esp. from the penalty of sin
The deliverance from the penalty of sin is eternal, because of whose Blood it was that Shed. The freedom from the penalty of sin cannot be reversed, so where the death penalty has been abolished, there is nothing but life to be communicated, and all hinges on His Own Blood.
Something that is eternal by definition must last in perpetuity. And the thing that possesses this characteristic cannot be separated from it. For example, let's say there is such a thing as an eternal rock and you are in possession of it. You may lose possession of the rock but the rock will continue to be eternal because the eternal nature was in the rock, not you. Likewise, if you are given eternal life that becomes part of your nature and because the life is eternal it cannot end by definition.
Is life eternal if it doesn't last eternally?
Is life eternal if it doesn't last eternally?
When Christ shed His Own Blood and secured Eternal Redemption, the following effects were accomplished for them which ensures their Eternal Security lest His Blood loses its Power of Redemption,
#1 It redeemed them from the penalty of sin and the curse of the Law Gal 3:13
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
#2 It abolished death 2 Tim 1:10
10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel
#3 It destroyed the works of the devil over us if He died dor us
1 Jn 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Heb 2:14
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Redemption by His Blood effects a new life from a vain life of dead works 1 Pet 1:18-19
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
If a redeemed soul by the blood of Christ can loose their Salvation, all this is denied the success of His Blood.
#1 It redeemed them from the penalty of sin and the curse of the Law Gal 3:13
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
#2 It abolished death 2 Tim 1:10
10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel
#3 It destroyed the works of the devil over us if He died dor us
1 Jn 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Heb 2:14
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Redemption by His Blood effects a new life from a vain life of dead works 1 Pet 1:18-19
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
If a redeemed soul by the blood of Christ can loose their Salvation, all this is denied the success of His Blood.
Hi Snacks. Well, Col 1:27 says Christ in us is the "hope of glory". How does Christ dwell in us? By His Spirit. Hence, having the Holy Spirit in us is the hope of glory. Here is the reference: "To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory." (Col 1:27)
Also, 1 Jn 5:20 says Christ Himself is Eternal Life. Christ is an Eternal Person, and so is the Holy Spirit, the Third Person of the Holy Trinity, an Eternal Person. "20And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true—in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life."
So when it says we have Eternal Life in us, that means we have Christ, or His Holy Spirit, in us. Likewise, when it says murderers, or those who hate their brothers etc, don't have Eternal Life, it means those who commit the sin of murder or hate their brother etc lose Christ or lose the Holy Spirit. Here is the reference for the verse on murder in 1 Jn 3:
"14We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death. 15Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that eternal life does not reside in a murderer."
"Eternal Life" here is just another reference to Christ in us, or the Holy Spirit in us, as the parallel verse in 5:20 makes clear.
As we know, King David committed adultery and murder in the case of Uriah. Hence, he prayed: "Take not Thy Holy Spirit from me" in Psalm 51 quoted earlier, the Holy Spirit showing us by those inspired words that such is really possible imo.
If we see, during the rest of King David's life, apart from this one major fall, he walked faithfully with the Lord, showing again that that also is really possible. And the Word bears witness to this when it says: "For David had done what was right in the eyes of the LORD and had not failed to keep any of the LORD’s commands all the days of his life—except in the case of Uriah the Hittite." (1 Kings 15:5). Hence, as David in the OT could do this, so much more can we in the NT.
God Bless.
Also, 1 Jn 5:20 says Christ Himself is Eternal Life. Christ is an Eternal Person, and so is the Holy Spirit, the Third Person of the Holy Trinity, an Eternal Person. "20And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true—in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life."
So when it says we have Eternal Life in us, that means we have Christ, or His Holy Spirit, in us. Likewise, when it says murderers, or those who hate their brothers etc, don't have Eternal Life, it means those who commit the sin of murder or hate their brother etc lose Christ or lose the Holy Spirit. Here is the reference for the verse on murder in 1 Jn 3:
"14We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death. 15Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that eternal life does not reside in a murderer."
"Eternal Life" here is just another reference to Christ in us, or the Holy Spirit in us, as the parallel verse in 5:20 makes clear.
As we know, King David committed adultery and murder in the case of Uriah. Hence, he prayed: "Take not Thy Holy Spirit from me" in Psalm 51 quoted earlier, the Holy Spirit showing us by those inspired words that such is really possible imo.
If we see, during the rest of King David's life, apart from this one major fall, he walked faithfully with the Lord, showing again that that also is really possible. And the Word bears witness to this when it says: "For David had done what was right in the eyes of the LORD and had not failed to keep any of the LORD’s commands all the days of his life—except in the case of Uriah the Hittite." (1 Kings 15:5). Hence, as David in the OT could do this, so much more can we in the NT.
God Bless.
Most poster here do not believe , rightfully so, that Mary is a co-redemptorist. Yet they embrace the idea they themselves are co-redemptory.
King David himself explains how to be blameless before the Lord. Blameless doesn't mean sinless. Blamelessness means to pray for forgiveness and to abstain from or resist deliberate or wilful sins.
Reference: "Psalm 19:13, NIV: Keep your servant also from willful sins; may they not rule over me. Then I will be blameless, innocent of great transgression.
Reference: "Psalm 19:13, NIV: Keep your servant also from willful sins; may they not rule over me. Then I will be blameless, innocent of great transgression.