How many People Think the Jews Could Be Wrong?
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And some are so focused on heaven bound Temple, that they TOTALLY FORGET that there are two FOLDs, that make up one flock, FORGETTING there are STILL PROPHECIES in the O.T. and in Revelation that refer to ISRAEL; especially Dan. 9. and Zech. 14. AND NO, the 144,000 are NOT the CHURCH, it saws they will all be JEWS.
And some are so focused on heaven bound Temple, that they TOTALLY FORGET that there are two FOLDs, that make up one flock, FORGETTING there are STILL PROPHECIES in the O.T. and in Revelation that refer to ISRAEL; especially Dan. 9. and Zech. 14. AND NO, the 144,000 are NOT the CHURCH, it saws they will all be JEWS.
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From a Christian perspective, of course people of Jewish heritage can be Christian. Paul is a great example of a descendant of Benjamin and obviously could stand with the 144,000 as a Christian representing the tribe of Benjamin. And clearly the same can be true of all 144,000.
This entire earthly temple business is suspect. It comes from Talmudic Judaism and their belief that a temple needs to be built prior to the coming of the messiah that they are expecting. If we ignore the Talmudic religions and approach this only from Christianity, no earthly temple is required or indicated because the spiritual temple with Christ as cornerstone is built.
The entire pretrib "rapturing of the Church" to wait out the 1000 year kingdom is also contrary to scripture because any dead Christians brought back to life during the first resurrection reigns with Christ for 1000 years per Rev 20:6, meaning the Church cannot possibly be absent during the 1000 year kingdom. Also, 1 Thes 4:17 states that the living will also join the Lord, meaning that the entire Church would be present with the Lord during the 1000 year kingdom, not on some heavenly sidelines out of the kingdom. We also acknowledge that people of Jewish heritage that accept Christ are part of the Church. That would mean that all saints are part of the Church when Jesus comes back. De facto, there are no 'nonChurch saints' during the 1000 year kingdom.
Dispensationalism is a hybrid religion between Talmudic Judaism and Christianity, and as such it is forced to reject many books and passages from the New Testament, including Gal 3, Rom 9, 2 Cor 3, Rev 20:6, 1 Thes 4:17, etc. I don't see any reason why any Christian should pay any heed to the words of that false religion.
This entire earthly temple business is suspect. It comes from Talmudic Judaism and their belief that a temple needs to be built prior to the coming of the messiah that they are expecting. If we ignore the Talmudic religions and approach this only from Christianity, no earthly temple is required or indicated because the spiritual temple with Christ as cornerstone is built.
The entire pretrib "rapturing of the Church" to wait out the 1000 year kingdom is also contrary to scripture because any dead Christians brought back to life during the first resurrection reigns with Christ for 1000 years per Rev 20:6, meaning the Church cannot possibly be absent during the 1000 year kingdom. Also, 1 Thes 4:17 states that the living will also join the Lord, meaning that the entire Church would be present with the Lord during the 1000 year kingdom, not on some heavenly sidelines out of the kingdom. We also acknowledge that people of Jewish heritage that accept Christ are part of the Church. That would mean that all saints are part of the Church when Jesus comes back. De facto, there are no 'nonChurch saints' during the 1000 year kingdom.
Dispensationalism is a hybrid religion between Talmudic Judaism and Christianity, and as such it is forced to reject many books and passages from the New Testament, including Gal 3, Rom 9, 2 Cor 3, Rev 20:6, 1 Thes 4:17, etc. I don't see any reason why any Christian should pay any heed to the words of that false religion.
The Third Temple will be DEFILED by the Antichrist when HE SITS ON THE MERCY SEAT, to the POINT, the LORD will have to choose a new PLACE for the EARTHLY TEMPLE. That happens in the FOURTH TEMPLE, built by Christ in the Millennial KINGDOM, While the Third Temple happens in the TRIBULATION. Some say it happens WEST of JERUSALEM, while I think it happens 300 miles Northeast of JERUSLAM, on the Banks of the CHEBAR RIVER. Don't confuse it with the Chebar Canal, some cannot tell the difference from a Canal that Man made, and the River that GOD MADE. When I was in high school, I used to fish at night for Catfish, in the LOUP Power CANAL, and I NEVER called it the LOUP RIVER, which was 4 miles to the South.
Ezekiel 10:15-20 (NJB)
15 The winged creatures rose; this was the being I had seen by the River Chebar.
16 When the winged creatures moved, the wheels moved beside them; and when the winged creatures raised their wings to leave the ground, the wheels did not turn beside them.
17 When the former halted the latter halted; when the former rose, the latter rose with them, since they shared the same living spirit.
18 The glory of Yahweh then came out over the Temple threshold and paused over the winged creatures.
19 These raised their wings and rose from the ground as I watched, and the wheels were beside them. They paused at the entrance to the east gate of the Temple of Yahweh, with the glory of the God of Israel over them, above.
20 This was the winged creature I had seen beneath the God of Israel by the River Chebar; I knew that they were winged creatures.
The TEMPLE has never been BUILT on the River Chebar, and I believe it is future Prophecy, and Ezekiel was given a vision into that Future.
Also Read Ezekiel 40 and 41.
Ezekiel 43:3-6 (NJB)
3 This vision was like the one I had seen when I had come for the destruction of the city, and like the one I had seen by the River Chebar. Then I fell to the ground.
4 The glory of Yahweh arrived at the Temple by the east gate.
5 The Spirit lifted me up and brought me into the inner court; I saw the glory of Yahweh fill the Temple.
6 And I heard someone speaking to me from the Temple while the man stood beside me.
Zechariah 14:1-21 (HCSB)
1 A day of the LORD is coming when your plunder will be divided in your presence.
2 I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle. The city will be captured, the houses looted, and the women raped. Half the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be removed from the city.
3 Then the LORD will go out to fight against those nations as He fights on a day of battle.
4 On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which faces Jerusalem on the east. The Mount of Olives will be split in half from east to west, forming a huge valley, so that half the mountain will move to the north and half to the south.
5 You will flee by My mountain valley, for the valley of the mountains will extend to Azal. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come and all the holy ones with Him.
6 On that day there will be no light; the sunlight and moonlight will diminish.
7 It will be a day known ⌊only⌋ to Yahweh, without day or night, but there will be light at evening.
8 On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it toward the eastern sea and the other half toward the western sea, in summer and winter alike.
9 On that day Yahweh will become King over all the earth—Yahweh alone, and His name alone.
10 All the land from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem will be changed into a plain. But ⌊Jerusalem⌋ will be raised up and will remain on its site from the Benjamin Gate to the place of the First Gate, to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the royal winepresses.
11 People will live there, and never again will there be a curse of complete destruction. So Jerusalem will dwell in security.
12 This will be the plague the LORD strikes all the peoples with, who have warred against Jerusalem: their flesh will rot while they stand on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths.
13 On that day a great panic from the LORD will be among them, so that each will seize the hand of another, and the hand of one will rise against the other.
14 Judah will also fight at Jerusalem, and the wealth of all the surrounding nations will be collected: gold, silver, and clothing in great abundance.
15 The same plague as the previous one will strike the horses, mules, camels, donkeys, and all the animals that are in those camps.
16 Then all the survivors from the nations that came against Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, and to celebrate the Festival of Booths.
17 Should any of the families of the earth not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, rain will not fall on them.
18 And if the people of Egypt will not go up and enter, then rain will not fall on them; this will be the plague the LORD inflicts on the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Booths.
19 This will be the punishment of Egypt and all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Booths.
20 On that day, ⌊the words⌋ HOLY TO THE LORD will be on the bells of the horses. The pots in the house of the LORD will be like the sprinkling basins before the altar.
21 Every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah will be holy to the LORD of Hosts. Everyone who sacrifices will come and take some of the pots to cook in. And on that day there will no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the LORD of Hosts.
Attachments
Look at Ezek. 40 and 41. The dementions alone should tell you it is a physical Building.
AND YOU CANNOT FORGET IT IS IN GOD'S PLAN.
Isaiah 46:11-12 (HCSB)
11 I call a bird of prey from the east, a man for My purpose from a far country. Yes, I have spoken; so I will also bring it about.
I have planned it; I will also do it.
12 Listen to me, you hardhearted, far removed from justice:
Believe what you want believe.
As for me and my house, we will believe what the Scripture says.
I did not say they are not part of the ASSEMBLY, but the Word CHURCH was never use by JESUS, nor
the APOSTLES. LOOK IT UP, the word CHURCH was inserted into the Bible about 300 A.D.
There are TWO ASSEMBLYS, and the TWO WILL BECOME ONE AT THE RAPTURE.
John 10:16-19 (ESV)
16 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd. {At the Rapture we BECOME ONE ASSEMBLY or FLOCK.}
17 For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again.
18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.”
19 There was again a division among the Jews because of these words. {The mortals have a difference Purpose (probably to repopulate Israel After WWIII and the Second Coming), than those of us that get the Glorified Body at the Rapture.}
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L
The Jews missed the Messiah when He came because they expected a physical Kingdom. But that didnt happen. There came a spiritual Kingdom that delivered all men rather than conquored them.
The plain and unignorable fact is; no physical temple or geographical place can usurp Jesus and his church as the temple. Sacrifices can not ever replace Jesus. Those things were a shadow of things to come, but the substance is Jesus.
The plain and unignorable fact is; no physical temple or geographical place can usurp Jesus and his church as the temple. Sacrifices can not ever replace Jesus. Those things were a shadow of things to come, but the substance is Jesus.
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L
So in this festival of booths according to Zechariah, is there plenty in egypt, is there bountiful harvests and abundant provision from the Lord? Have they repented of tgeir sins and turned to Christ? The thing is that the unsaved world has no peace no joy and even what one may call abundance is actually ashes in their mouths. And every would be blessing accompanied by a curse four times the would be blessing. Only those in Christ have the satisfaction of contentment and the joy of the provision of the Lord. Only we have repentance and uncanny provision like the days of the sojourn in the wilderness.
L
Festival of booths is a commemoration of the treck through the wilderness. Which is reflective of us now. They crossed the red sea baptised into Moses. We are baptized into Christ and we are in our sojourn where our every faith is in Christ; from food to clothes and even our shoes. One day we will cross over Jordan.
I have fairly recently changed my mind on this whole issue.
I think it is possible a 3rd temple could be built. But, they will not build it on the Ezekiel specs. It would be built on the specs given to David/Solomon.
I now completely believe that the temple Jesus and Paul is talking about is US.
Several places in Scripture say just that. Here is just one:
1 Corinthians 3:16-17
Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are
So if WE, (human beings) are the temple of God, how do you think Satan ca seat himself in us?
I think it is possible a 3rd temple could be built. But, they will not build it on the Ezekiel specs. It would be built on the specs given to David/Solomon.
I now completely believe that the temple Jesus and Paul is talking about is US.
Several places in Scripture say just that. Here is just one:
1 Corinthians 3:16-17
Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are
So if WE, (human beings) are the temple of God, how do you think Satan ca seat himself in us?
Israel will rebuild a Temple in Jerusalem, so that all prophecy will be fulfilled. It will follow the pattern of the Solomonic more or less.
However the Ezekiel/millennial Temple is vastly different. And huge.
The dimensions are given in “reeds”. One reed is equal to eleven feet. Five hundred reeds are equal to 5,500 feet or just over one mile. So the temple proper will be about one mile square.
Eze 42:15-19 Now when he had made an end of measuring the inner house, he brought me forth toward the gate whose prospect is toward the east, and measured it round about. 16 He measured the east side with the measuring reed, five hundred reeds, with the measuring reed round about. 17 He measured the north side, five hundred reeds, with the measuring reed round about. 18 He measured the south side, five hundred reeds, with the measuring reed. 19 He turned about to the west side, and measured five hundred reeds with the measuring reed.
In the next verses Ezekiel describes the land area around the temple that is dedicated to God himself. The outskirts of this holy parcel will be for the Levites who will serve at the temple site. The Levites will build their homes on the gentle foothills that surround the mountain of the temple of God. The entire land mass that is dedicated to God’s temple is about fifty two miles long by twenty one miles wide. That’s big.
Eze 45:1-2 Moreover, when ye shall divide by lot the land for inheritance, ye shall offer an oblation unto the LORD, an holy portion of the land: the length shall be the length of five and twenty thousand reeds, and the breadth shall be ten thousand. This shall be holy in all the borders thereof round about. 2 Of this there shall be for the sanctuary five hundred in length, with five hundred in breadth, square round about; and fifty cubits round about for the suburbs thereof.
However the Ezekiel/millennial Temple is vastly different. And huge.
The dimensions are given in “reeds”. One reed is equal to eleven feet. Five hundred reeds are equal to 5,500 feet or just over one mile. So the temple proper will be about one mile square.
Eze 42:15-19 Now when he had made an end of measuring the inner house, he brought me forth toward the gate whose prospect is toward the east, and measured it round about. 16 He measured the east side with the measuring reed, five hundred reeds, with the measuring reed round about. 17 He measured the north side, five hundred reeds, with the measuring reed round about. 18 He measured the south side, five hundred reeds, with the measuring reed. 19 He turned about to the west side, and measured five hundred reeds with the measuring reed.
In the next verses Ezekiel describes the land area around the temple that is dedicated to God himself. The outskirts of this holy parcel will be for the Levites who will serve at the temple site. The Levites will build their homes on the gentle foothills that surround the mountain of the temple of God. The entire land mass that is dedicated to God’s temple is about fifty two miles long by twenty one miles wide. That’s big.
Eze 45:1-2 Moreover, when ye shall divide by lot the land for inheritance, ye shall offer an oblation unto the LORD, an holy portion of the land: the length shall be the length of five and twenty thousand reeds, and the breadth shall be ten thousand. This shall be holy in all the borders thereof round about. 2 Of this there shall be for the sanctuary five hundred in length, with five hundred in breadth, square round about; and fifty cubits round about for the suburbs thereof.
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Eze 43:7
And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.
And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places.
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Rom 11:25
For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
THEN WHAT?
Luk 21:24
“And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
THEN WHAT?
The rapture of the Church and then the 70th week of Daniel tribulation is what. During which Israel finally recognizes and receives their Lord and Savior Jesus.
Zec 12:10
“And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.
Hos 5:14
For I will be like a lion to Ephraim,
And like a young lion to the house of Judah.
I, even I, will tear them and go away;
I will take them away, and no one shall rescue.
Hos 5:15
I will return again to My place
Till they acknowledge their offense.
Then they will seek My face;
In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me.”
Hos 6:1
Come, and let us return to the LORD;
For He has torn, but He will heal us;
He has stricken, but He will bind us up.
Hos 6:2
After two days He will revive us;
On the third day He will raise us up,
That we may live in His sight.
For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
THEN WHAT?
Luk 21:24
“And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
THEN WHAT?
The rapture of the Church and then the 70th week of Daniel tribulation is what. During which Israel finally recognizes and receives their Lord and Savior Jesus.
Zec 12:10
“And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.
Hos 5:14
For I will be like a lion to Ephraim,
And like a young lion to the house of Judah.
I, even I, will tear them and go away;
I will take them away, and no one shall rescue.
Hos 5:15
I will return again to My place
Till they acknowledge their offense.
Then they will seek My face;
In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me.”
Hos 6:1
Come, and let us return to the LORD;
For He has torn, but He will heal us;
He has stricken, but He will bind us up.
Hos 6:2
After two days He will revive us;
On the third day He will raise us up,
That we may live in His sight.
It seemed as though you were against the scriptures that he posted.
The scriptures he posted are beautiful and they were not misrepresented in any way.
The third temple in earthbound Israel will not help the Jewish people.
YES, all prophecy will be fullfilled in HIS Time.
ONLY when the LORD returns will HE revive their hearts unto Salvation.
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling!
Look, your house is left to you desolate.
For I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’i”
Matt 23:37-39
Why do you think the 144,000 are Jews of the flesh?
The scriptures he posted are beautiful and they were not misrepresented in any way.
The third temple in earthbound Israel will not help the Jewish people.
YES, all prophecy will be fullfilled in HIS Time.
ONLY when the LORD returns will HE revive their hearts unto Salvation.
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling!
Look, your house is left to you desolate.
For I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’i”
Matt 23:37-39
Why do you think the 144,000 are Jews of the flesh?
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Either you get it or you are in denial man.....
Eze 37:11
Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
Eze 37:12
Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
Eze 37:13
And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
Eze 37:14
And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.
Eze 37:21
And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
Eze 37:22
And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
Eze 37:25
And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
Eze 37:11
Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
Eze 37:12
Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
Eze 37:13
And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
Eze 37:14
And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.
Eze 37:21
And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
Eze 37:22
And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
Eze 37:25
And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
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