And the SMOKE of their torment...No eternal damnation for anyone, except the Devil

[Runningman]

Truth is only available to those who are willing to question what they think they believe

Agreed. I’m glad I questioned what I thought was true and arrived at the truth, but most importantly it was liberating to finally be honest with myself about it. I recommend everyone give it a try.

 

[Runningman]

I've told you what the word "perish" in the Greek language means. If you deny it's original meaning, I can't help you. Remember that Eph. 2:1-2 where Paul calls people that were breathing and moving as DEAD. They were dead on the inside, therefore when they died without Christ, they were dead twice. The second death is eternal.

Ephesians 2:1-2 (LSB) "And you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience."

Revelation 2:10-11 (MEV) "Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Look, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tried, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.
11 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death."

Have a nice evening my friend. 🤠

I’m not in disagreement about what the Koine Greek word for perish means. Those who perish, like you said, are utterly destroyed eternally. It means they die.

 

[Runningman]

Also let’s be clear about something. When John 3:16 says that those who don’t believe will perish, it isn’t just talking about just their bodies but their soul as well.

Even those who believe in the Son of God die a bodily death, so John 3:16 isn’t saying that non-believers will experience only a natural death since a natural death is true for everyone; everyone’s physical body perishes.

 

[VARob]

When God saves unbelievers and they will become believers.

That’s Calvinism. I don’t buy it. God requires that a person believes first.

 

[MISSION-IMPOSSIBLE]

I’m not in disagreement about what the Koine Greek word for perish means. Those who perish, like you said, are utterly destroyed eternally. It means they die.

Correct, but perishing does not annihilation. It simply existing without purpose and without healing or ever having hope of being restored. It means carrying all sinful and destructive baggage that will compound on an ongoing increase of self-inflicting spiritual deterioration that will never end.

God does not torture anyone. The eternal suffering means coming to terms with carnal self that cannot heal itself. The final rejection of Christ brings self condemnation.

We need help from the Lord at all times for without Him we are totally lost.

 

[VARob]

Correct, but perishing does not annihilation. It simply existing without purpose and without healing or ever having hope of being restored. It means carrying all sinful and destructive baggage that will compound on an ongoing increase of self-inflicting spiritual deterioration that will never end.

Perishing means perishing, not existing.

 

[soberxp]

That’s Calvinism. I don’t buy it. God requires that a person believes first.

I don't know anything about Calvinism, and I'm not a Calvinist. Your own version is truely Calvinism.

What I'm saying is that God can save unbeliever, I don't know how God does it.Whether it's through persuasion or what, I don't know at all, I just know the result.

It's not like that I still have five brothers in the Bible.

Why do I have to disagree with what the Bible says? You can choose not to believe it, or you can reserve judgment. I'm just saying what I know.

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave His only Begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Could you consider adding what I have said to the matter of believing him?

You can take your time and test whether this is a "revelation or reveal" from God. I don't expect you to accept it right away, and I didn't accept it all at once.

Hope make sense.

 

[VARob]

I don't know anything about Calvinism, and I'm not a Calvinist. Your own version is truely Calvinism.

What I believe is about as far as a person can get from Calvinism.

What I'm saying is that God can save unbeliever, I don't know how God does it.Whether it's through persuasion or what, I don't know at all, I just know the result.

God saves unbelievers when they decide to believe.

It's not like that I still have five brothers in the Bible.

???

Why do I have to disagree with what the Bible says? You can choose not to believe it, or you can reserve judgment. I'm just saying what I know.

You should not disagree with what the Bible says.

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave His only Begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Could you consider adding what I have said to the matter of believing him?

You can take your time and test whether this is a "revelation or reveal" from God. I don't expect you to accept it right away, and I didn't accept it all at once.

Hope make sense.

If you think God will save unbelievers, I do not and will not accept it.

 

[soberxp]

What I believe is about as far as a person can get from Calvinism.


God saves unbelievers when they decide to believe.


???


You should not disagree with what the Bible says.


If you think God will save unbelievers, I do not and will not accept it.

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave His only Begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.


Then take your perish.
It's not my idea, I'm just a messenger.

 

[soberxp]

Sorry, Don't get me wrong, my message is that God can save unbeliever.

If you believe that believes in Jesus, then you can't be perish.

It is recommended that you read the Bible carefully and think carefully about every word in the Bible.

 

[VARob]

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave His only Begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Exactly. Anyone (whosoever) can choose to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and when they do, God saves them.

Then take your perish.

???

It's not my idea, I'm just a messenger.

The Bible does not say that unbelievers will be saved. They can repent, but if they don't, they will perish.

 

[VARob]

Sorry, Don't get me wrong, my message is that God can save unbeliever.

When they choose to become believers, yes.

If you believe that believes in Jesus, then you can't be perish.

People who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ will not perish. Those who reject him, will.

It is recommended that you read the Bible carefully and think carefully about every word in the Bible.

Indeed....

 

[soberxp]

When they choose to become believers, yes.


People who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ will not perish. Those who reject him, will.


Indeed....

Bro, I hope you believe in him,

But lest you become, Lord, Lord, do I not preach in your name and cast out demons in your name? Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, I do not know you.

Jesus is the key of life. When the door is opened, no one can close it.
If it's closed, it won't open.

You embrace the idea of old wine, this is new wine.

You are not saved only by believing in the name of Jesus, But to believe him and obey him.

This is not a wide door for those who already know Jesus.This is actually a narrow door.
If you don't open minded level.
You can't get through this narrow door.

People used to believe in Jesus, believing in his name to be saved,Now believe in Jesus and believe that He can save those who do not believe.

Matthew 24:13
But he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

 

[VARob]

Bro, I hope you believe in him,

I do, absolutely.

But lest you become, Lord, Lord, do I not preach in your name and cast out demons in your name? Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, I do not know you.

Jesus is the key of life. When the door is opened, no one can close it.
If it's closed, it won't open.

You embrace the idea of old wine, this is new wine.

There is no "new wine" that says people who reject the gospel will be saved.

You are not saved only by believing in the name of Jesus, But to believe him and obey him.

Then people who don't believe don't even have a foot in the door.

This is not a wide door for those who already know Jesus.This is actually a narrow door.
If you don't open minded level.
You can't get through this narrow door.

???

People used to believe in Jesus, believing in his name to be saved,Now believe in Jesus and believe that He can save those who do not believe.

No verse in the Bible says that. People need to believe.

Matthew 24:13
But he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

People who do not believe cannot endure.

 

[Runningman]

Correct, but perishing does not annihilation. It simply existing without purpose and without healing or ever having hope of being restored. It means carrying all sinful and destructive baggage that will compound on an ongoing increase of self-inflicting spiritual deterioration that will never end.

God does not torture anyone. The eternal suffering means coming to terms with carnal self that cannot heal itself. The final rejection of Christ brings self condemnation.

We need help from the Lord at all times for without Him we are totally lost.

If I read you correctly, you’re basically saying that those in hell have eternal life. John 3:16 says that non-believers don’t have eternal life.

 

[Runningman]

Bro, I hope you believe in him,

But lest you become, Lord, Lord, do I not preach in your name and cast out demons in your name? Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, I do not know you.

Jesus is the key of life. When the door is opened, no one can close it.
If it's closed, it won't open.

You embrace the idea of old wine, this is new wine.

You are not saved only by believing in the name of Jesus, But to believe him and obey him.

This is not a wide door for those who already know Jesus.This is actually a narrow door.
If you don't open minded level.
You can't get through this narrow door.

People used to believe in Jesus, believing in his name to be saved,Now believe in Jesus and believe that He can save those who do not believe.

Matthew 24:13
But he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

@VARob is a believer. He isn’t saying he would prefer to perish, rather than receive eternal life, like John 3:16 says.

 

[MISSION-IMPOSSIBLE]

If I read you correctly, you’re basically saying that those in hell have eternal life. John 3:16 says that non-believers don’t have eternal life.

Existing eternally does not equal "LIFE". Life must have a divine quality that makes it worth living. Existing eternally with a broken self that will never heal is HELL.

 

[MISSION-IMPOSSIBLE]

Perishing means perishing, not existing.

Do some research on a Greek Reverse-Interlinear and find out what perishing means. I already provided its meaning yesterday but it went over your head. You are bent on believing a lie.

Good luck with that.

 

[VARob]

Do some research on a Greek Reverse-Interlinear and find out what perishing means. I already provided its meaning yesterday but it went over your head. You are bent on believing a lie.

Good luck with that.

I know what "perishing" means. It seems you don't.

Existing eternally does not equal "LIFE". Life must have a divine quality that makes it worth living. Existing eternally with a broken self that will never heal is HELL.

If someone is existing, they are alive.

 

[Runningman]

Existing eternally does not equal "LIFE". Life must have a divine quality that makes it worth living. Existing eternally with a broken self that will never heal is HELL.

If someone exists eternally then they didn't perish, they didn't die, and they weren't destroyed. That means you're applying a non-literal interpretation of what it means to perish, but when John 3:16 says those who believe will have eternal life, it's literal?

I believe eternal life is literal. To maintain consistency, I suggest the perishing in John 3:16 is literal too.