The offer of Salvation is universal, but the application is only : "by Faith".
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Hi
I dispute that Esau never came into blessing. He reconciled to Jacob and seemingly had come to terms with being passed over, he had prospered during Jacob's absence i.e. God had blessed him. But he never could be that particular blessing.
Vessels of mercy, vessels of wrath is a very difficult scripture, it needs prayer. From memory the KJV has vessels fitted for destruction [not made for destruction] the vessels of mercy which He has prepared beforehand for glory.
This shows there is no predestination unto damnation, predestination is only here applied to the vessels of mercy.
God didn't make anyone to be damned, that is an AWFUL mistake.
fitted for destruction but it is not God who fits it for destruction
Whether vessels for mercy or vessels fitted to destruction they both began as one perfectly good lump of clay.
At the end of the day it comes down to do you trust God? that He is good and wise, that He is LOVE and that He will do what is right.
What makes Hitler Hitler or Stalin Stalin? what makes Pharoah Pharoah? or Judas Judas?
We see their outer form we do not see what they are inwardly. You can listen to Hitler speak in a normal voice on Youtube, or Stalin, they don't sound different to any other German or Russian but they were responsible for the murder of so many millions.
Evmur said:
God does not hate the world, the world hates God.
Sometimes I really do wonder what your agenda is, Forest. You seem to be doing your very best to sow confusion, discord, and strife here at CC.
John 17:9
“I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.”
Jesus was praying for His people at that particular moment, and you try to twist it into God hating the world?
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
God does not hate the world, the world hates God.
Sometimes I really do wonder what your agenda is, Forest. You seem to be doing your very best to sow confusion, discord, and strife here at CC.
John 17:9
“I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.”
Jesus was praying for His people at that particular moment, and you try to twist it into God hating the world?
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
Who is bringing up an un-regenerate person????
We were talking about Salvation.
It should be understood that we pray not for the things in the world, but For people who become people of Jesus.
The doctrine of Christ, according to a lot of people, has alway been accused of turning the world upside down (Acts 17:6). John 6:60 - Many therefore of his disciples, when they heard this, said, this is an hard saying, who can hear it?
All scriptures must harmonize, if the truth of Christ's doctrine is taught.
The scriptures teach us that there is a world that God tells his born again children not to love (1 John 2:15) Love not the world, (of the wicked antichrist), neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
The world in John 3:16 is referencing believers only, and not to include the world of the wicked antichrist, which is the world that Jesus does not pray for in John 17:9.
As comforting a doctrine that it is, it remains a mystery to me, as to why God refrains from revealing Christ's doctrine to the majority of his born again people, and only reveals it to but a few (Rev 3:4) (Matt 20:16) (Luke 10:21) (Matt 7:14).
Yes, I understand that you are talking about the natural man abandons his natural understandings before he has been born again (salvation) spiritually, which he cannot do according to 1 Cor 2:14.
Yes the scriptures teach us to pray for each other. Each other, being those that are born again, and not for the wicked antichrist.
According to Psalms 73:5, God does not chasten the wicked. They are not in trouble as other men, neither are they "plagued" (divinely punished) like other men.
The adopted children of God were chosen by Him before the world began and were given to his Son to redeem them from their sins and secure them for eternal heaven. No person will be saved eternally except those that Christ died for, which are only the ones that he died for.
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pablocito
Guest
The bible states that God's ways are past finding out.
The key to God's kingdom is simple, but cannot be rationalized by man's brains as God has hidden it from the foundation of the world.
The key is this. God chooses us and We choose God. Nothing more nothing less. End of Story.
Ecc 3:11 He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.
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pablocito
Guest
I am not at liberty to try and explain the bible as each person is accountable to God for an answer when God visits them.
Many are corrupt and often seek a shortcut into the kingdom of God and we already see God throwing them out or God striking their names from the book of life.
The bible is filled with so many traps and stumbling blocks that the natural man is already condemned before God. Seek and ye shall find. (The only way to seek God is from the bottom of your heart, with fear and trembling and in all sincerity and God just may grant you a way forward into his kingdom.)
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pablocito
Guest
Of course the bible makes no sense to the intellectual man.
Of course, God blocking the way to the tree of life to the natural man, makes no sense to him, because he (man) is looking for a merciful God who will overlook his sins and his wicked ways.
Lastly I will summarize in street terms the way of God. It is God's way or the highway.
In other words man does not dictate to God, it is God who dictates to man.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
NB! Belief is of the heart and it is God who knows the heart. (one may say a trillion times with his mouth that he believes in God but his heart does not lie and God is the one who reads the heart)
If you are not at liberty to try and explain the bible, then you do not have the foundation to uphold your beliefs.
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pablocito
Guest
I am not at liberty means that God did not send me to you to explain anything. Jesus commissioned his apostles (disciples) to go into the world, and today we have the word of the apostles in the bible as a witness to him.
Heb 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
Heb 2:4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
You apparently have been studying the bible for quite a while and if you cannot hear the voice of Christ then you are not one of his. Try and re-read John 3, the entire chapter very slowly and maybe hopefully you will understand what I mean.
Paul also said this:
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Now following your logical and rational understanding of the bible then the following verse could be translated to mean that Christ did not need to do anything because it was God who was inside of him doing everything. Yes, the verse says that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself.
But if you know the bible, we understand that Christ was faithful unto the death of the cross.
Also these verses are very clear:
Php_2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Heb_3:2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.
1Co_4:2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.
Yes Christ was faithful unto the cross,. so why do so many of God's, well intended children, try to take Jesus "faithfulness" in John 2:8, and claim that it is their faith, when Gal 2:16 reinforces the fact that it is Jesus faith that justifies his children?
It is my understanding that you are not rightly dividing the truth, when you cannot see that the scriptures plainly reveals that there is a "world" that God loves, and there is also a "world that God hates"
The world that God hates;
Matt 13:38 - The field is the world, the good seed are the children of the kingdom, (the world, that he loves, of his children), but the tares are the children of the wicked one ( the word of children that he hates).
John 14:17 - Even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive.
John 15:18-19 - If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated me. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own, but ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
John 16:19-20 - Now Jesus knew that they were desirous to ask him, and he said unto them, Do you inquire among yourselves of that I said, a little while, and ye shall not see me, and again, a little while, and ye shall see me? Verily, Verily, I say unto you, that ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice, and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy.
John 17:9 - I pray for them, I pray not for the world, but to them thou which hast given me.
John 17:14 - I have given them thy word, and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Rom 12:2 - And be not conformed to this world
1 Cor 2:6 - Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect, yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world that come to nought.
1 Cor 2:12 - Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God, that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1 Cor 3:19 - For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God.
1 Cor 5:9-10 - I wrote unto you in an epistle, not to company with fornicators, Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters, for then ye needs go out of the world.
Gal 1:4 - Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world.
Eph 6:12 - For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
James 4:4 - Know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is an enemy of God.
1 John 2:15 - Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him
1 John 3:13 - Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
1 John 4:5-6 - They are of the world, therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. We are of God he that knoweth God heareth us, he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the Spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
1 John 5:19 - And we know we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.