Are Former Christians Who Later Became Murderers and Anti-Christians Still Saved?
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FreeGrace2 said:
Now, the only question is WHEN does a person receive the gift of eternal life? Do you know? That would be the only way to support your view is by showing the gift is received at the end of one's life.
Your turn.
Thank you for your brutal honesty about being so anti-biblical. Prove to me that your claim is in the Bible. I've never seen the words "sincere" or "surrender" in regard to salvation.
The only words I find in regard to salvation are "believe" and "faith". Your view isn't even close to the Bible.
And once again, please prove your claim from the Bible. That means you must find where the Bible warns against "a mental salvation w/o a heart condition attached".
btw, what kind of "heart condition" are you referring to? 3 vessel blockage, 4 vessel blockage, ischemia, or what?
Now, the only question is WHEN does a person receive the gift of eternal life? Do you know? That would be the only way to support your view is by showing the gift is received at the end of one's life.
Your turn.
Thank you for your brutal honesty about being so anti-biblical. Prove to me that your claim is in the Bible. I've never seen the words "sincere" or "surrender" in regard to salvation.
The only words I find in regard to salvation are "believe" and "faith". Your view isn't even close to the Bible.
And once again, please prove your claim from the Bible. That means you must find where the Bible warns against "a mental salvation w/o a heart condition attached".
btw, what kind of "heart condition" are you referring to? 3 vessel blockage, 4 vessel blockage, ischemia, or what?
All they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. No murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. He that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. The fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Just because you "once believed in Jesus" means nothing. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. The question is, did they obey the gospel of God? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. Jesus Christ said, go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Just because you "once believed in Jesus" means nothing. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. The question is, did they obey the gospel of God? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. Jesus Christ said, go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
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How do you believe in God without surrendering to Him?
the demons believe, are you saying according to your logic they have eternal security?
Pharaoh had a hardened heart.
Believers do not!
did Pharaoh believe in God and accept Him as his God?
a hardened heart cannot be saved.
the Heart is the KEY to Salvation!
Romans 10:
9 For if you confess with your mouth
that Yeshua is Lord,
and [[((believe in your heart))]]
that God raised Him from the dead,
you will be saved.
notice, the mind Game you play on here is not BIBLICAL!
you must ...
confess with your mouth that Yeshua is Lord, and [[((believe in your heart))]]!!
the demons believe, are you saying according to your logic they have eternal security?
Pharaoh had a hardened heart.
Believers do not!
did Pharaoh believe in God and accept Him as his God?
a hardened heart cannot be saved.
the Heart is the KEY to Salvation!
Romans 10:
9 For if you confess with your mouth
that Yeshua is Lord,
and [[((believe in your heart))]]
that God raised Him from the dead,
you will be saved.
notice, the mind Game you play on here is not BIBLICAL!
you must ...
confess with your mouth that Yeshua is Lord, and [[((believe in your heart))]]!!
Your question reveals your lack of understanding. Salvation is a trust issue. Once faith in Christ, THEN the believer is commanded to obey, surrender, etc. You have the cart before the horse.
James 2:19 has been sooooo abused by well meaning but very ignorant pastors.
The verse that demons believe that "God is One", or they believe in monotheism, which was particular to Israel. All the Gentile religions were polytheistic.
Now, does believing that "God is One" salvific? No, it is not. So it's not even about believing for salvation.
So, you see, it is YOUR logic that is off. Not mine.
Some do. And the Bible reveals that.
No. So what? What's your point?
There are a LOT of people who had very hardened hearts who did come to faith. It seems you are quite naive about things.
Do you have a verse for this?
Do you what the "heart" is?
Please describethis "mind game" you accuse me of. I have no idea. Quote it please.
Of course. Where do you think the heart is? In your chest? Nope.
In the Bible, the "heart" is the seat of the person, their personality, their emotions, their thoughts, consciousness, conscience, etc.
Again, as I said, salvation is a trust issue.
You trust from your heart. Believing and trusting are the same thing. If you believe someone, you trust them.
If you can't trust someone, how can you believe anything they say?
James 2:19 has been sooooo abused by well meaning but very ignorant pastors.
The verse that demons believe that "God is One", or they believe in monotheism, which was particular to Israel. All the Gentile religions were polytheistic.
Now, does believing that "God is One" salvific? No, it is not. So it's not even about believing for salvation.
So, you see, it is YOUR logic that is off. Not mine.
Some do. And the Bible reveals that.
No. So what? What's your point?
There are a LOT of people who had very hardened hearts who did come to faith. It seems you are quite naive about things.
Do you have a verse for this?
Do you what the "heart" is?
Please describethis "mind game" you accuse me of. I have no idea. Quote it please.
Of course. Where do you think the heart is? In your chest? Nope.
In the Bible, the "heart" is the seat of the person, their personality, their emotions, their thoughts, consciousness, conscience, etc.
Again, as I said, salvation is a trust issue.
You trust from your heart. Believing and trusting are the same thing. If you believe someone, you trust them.
If you can't trust someone, how can you believe anything they say?
you clearly are wrong and have been wrong the entire time. you are one when given facts and Biblical proofs will deny it over and over to believe as you do. you are now debating what heart means in a verse that claims "confess with your mouth that Yeshua is Lord, and [[((believe in your heart))]].
Paul uses the word [[καρδιά]] which means HEART, CORE of the body, the TICKER which all relates to the human HEART.
get over it, Dude, take your False Idealism's elsewhere!
Paul uses the word [[καρδιά]] which means HEART, CORE of the body, the TICKER which all relates to the human HEART.
get over it, Dude, take your False Idealism's elsewhere!
Well, thanks for your opinion. Now, can you prove your claim? How am I wrong about James 2:19? And be specific.
That's rather hard to believe since my views and beliefs come straight from biblical FACTS.
iow, I study the Bible the way Bereans did. They "searched the Scriptures DAILY to see if what __________ said is true." I plunk in the name of those who make statements regarding the Bible. And IF IF IF I can't find any verse that says what they are saying, I KNOW that is they THEY who are wrong.
No kidding. What did you think I think that "heart" means? I even gave you a definition of it.
Well, maybe YOU think with your "ticker", but that would mean you come from a different planet, or maybe even solar system.
So, which planet or solar system?
Said the apparent alien.
Just so you know, you have NO IDEA how kardia is used in the Bible. It is NEVER used for your "ticker". It's ALWAYS used for the inner being, where the conscience, emotions, etc reside. Basically, it is the soul.
But aliens who think with their "ticker" won't understand that. Sorry.
That's rather hard to believe since my views and beliefs come straight from biblical FACTS.
iow, I study the Bible the way Bereans did. They "searched the Scriptures DAILY to see if what __________ said is true." I plunk in the name of those who make statements regarding the Bible. And IF IF IF I can't find any verse that says what they are saying, I KNOW that is they THEY who are wrong.
No kidding. What did you think I think that "heart" means? I even gave you a definition of it.
Well, maybe YOU think with your "ticker", but that would mean you come from a different planet, or maybe even solar system.
So, which planet or solar system?
Said the apparent alien.
Just so you know, you have NO IDEA how kardia is used in the Bible. It is NEVER used for your "ticker". It's ALWAYS used for the inner being, where the conscience, emotions, etc reside. Basically, it is the soul.
But aliens who think with their "ticker" won't understand that. Sorry.
Your premise is a bit skewed. Belief doesn’t equate to being a Christian.
Also, read the warning to the newly converted Jews in Hebrews 6:6-7 regarding falling away which still is applicable if one does this today.
And murderers can be saved. Jeffrey Dahlmer was saved while in prison. He was baptized into Christ for the forgiveness of sins.
Also, read the warning to the newly converted Jews in Hebrews 6:6-7 regarding falling away which still is applicable if one does this today.
And murderers can be saved. Jeffrey Dahlmer was saved while in prison. He was baptized into Christ for the forgiveness of sins.
Yes, Jesus will make the final judgement for each of us. "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad." (Corithians)
Unusual that Corinthians doesn't say we'll be judged by 'faith alone' but instead by our own deeds???????????
Unusual that Corinthians doesn't say we'll be judged by 'faith alone' but instead by our own deeds???????????
The key here is "abiding". John's concept of abiding is always of that it is a reciprocal relationship, even as Jesus said in John 15, "Abide in Me and I in you".
Since Jesus Christ Himself IS eternal life, to say that someone does not have eternal life abiding in him is equivalent to saying that he does not have Christ abiding in him. iow, abiding is about fellowship. A believer who murders is clearly OUT OF FELLOWSHIP with the Lord. He is grieving (Eph 5:18) or quenching (1 Thess 5:19) the Holy Spirit.
Exactly! And the FATE of EVERY believer is to NEVER PERISH, as Jesus clearly stated in John 10:28.
If any believer who commits murder goes to the LOF, then Jesus lied in John 10:28. It's that clear.
I refuse to believe that Jesus ever lied. So you need to square yourself with John 10:28.
Since Jesus Christ Himself IS eternal life, to say that someone does not have eternal life abiding in him is equivalent to saying that he does not have Christ abiding in him. iow, abiding is about fellowship. A believer who murders is clearly OUT OF FELLOWSHIP with the Lord. He is grieving (Eph 5:18) or quenching (1 Thess 5:19) the Holy Spirit.
Exactly! And the FATE of EVERY believer is to NEVER PERISH, as Jesus clearly stated in John 10:28.
If any believer who commits murder goes to the LOF, then Jesus lied in John 10:28. It's that clear.
I refuse to believe that Jesus ever lied. So you need to square yourself with John 10:28.
I agree with the other member, this isn't the place to correct historic inaccuracies.
Though as pertains to Nazi Germany, AH was intolerant of any who didn't fall into lockstep.
Go along,live. Don't, die.
Same with Tzar Russia.
Are they Christians?
Soldiers kill under orders. And there are chaplains in every unit.
For me, I believe Father is Sovereign and all knowing. The fact he is such and calls us to himself eternally tells me he knows who are his own no matter what comes.
No one takes us from Jesus hand.
I'd think that includes ourselves being unable to leave what God alone bestowed and sealed in us.
Just my thoughts.💞🕊️
Though as pertains to Nazi Germany, AH was intolerant of any who didn't fall into lockstep.
Go along,live. Don't, die.
Same with Tzar Russia.
Are they Christians?
Soldiers kill under orders. And there are chaplains in every unit.
For me, I believe Father is Sovereign and all knowing. The fact he is such and calls us to himself eternally tells me he knows who are his own no matter what comes.
No one takes us from Jesus hand.
I'd think that includes ourselves being unable to leave what God alone bestowed and sealed in us.
Just my thoughts.💞🕊️
Correction: OSAS does not teach that. Calvinists teach that.
Jesus taught that believer have eternal life in John 5:24. He also taught that recipients of eternal life shall never perish in John 10:28.
It's not difficult to connect the dots here. Once given the gift of eternal life, the recipient shall not (cannot) perish.
In Matt 7:21-23, what is clear is that the crowd had never believed, as you correctly note. Their entire appeal for entering the kingdom is based on what THEY did for Him, not what He did for them. Which is a big difference.
Jesus taught that believer have eternal life in John 5:24. He also taught that recipients of eternal life shall never perish in John 10:28.
It's not difficult to connect the dots here. Once given the gift of eternal life, the recipient shall not (cannot) perish.
In Matt 7:21-23, what is clear is that the crowd had never believed, as you correctly note. Their entire appeal for entering the kingdom is based on what THEY did for Him, not what He did for them. Which is a big difference.