Speaking in Tongues
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Just a FYI moment for you here as most christians do not know this.
It is a serious sin to speak against or seek to change the words of God.
Every word of God is tested;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words
Or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar.
Proverbs 30:5-6
I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book.
Revelation 22:18-19
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.
Peace
It is a serious sin to speak against or seek to change the words of God.
Every word of God is tested;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words
Or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar.
Proverbs 30:5-6
I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book.
Revelation 22:18-19
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.
Peace
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That's funny . . . when I was actually saved, I stopped listening to John M. - When God began leading my life in this new direction, the direction of His Holy Son, the Lord impressed into my mind that I needed to begin reading the Bible in a timeline, chronological order so that I might have the best chance at understanding the True Gospel, the Story of God. And so I did just that . . . I left behind every teaching that I had heard and every belief that I had ever held. I'm so glad that the Lord caused me to do such a thing, for I am astonished to this day by what our preachers and teachers have kept from us. I have always been a part of the church. At 55 years of age, no one ever taught a stitch about the need to be Redeemed of the Lord's Curse, the day Adam and Eve discovered disobedience.
No one ever spoke about how humanity was under a dual curse, the curse that causes Spiritual death, and the Curse that causes physical death. I have heard perhaps hundreds of John M's sermons, even purchased 8-10 of his audio cassette series, and he never covered this all-important doctrine. How is that possible? How is it possible that our preachers and teachers aren't cramming down our throats the Purpose of Christ, the Work of Christ, and the Effect of Christ? We need to know these things backward and forwards. We need to understand the Gospel. There is so, so much Scripture to teach on this subject, where if I were a pastor, there wouldn't be a single sermon I would did not reference the Spiritual Circumcision of Christ, for it is the very fulcrum of Spiritual Life and Spiritual death. And so this is the Mysterious Plan that the Apostle Paul speaks of in Ephesians and Colossians. Knowing this Mystery could very well be the difference between Spiritual Life and Spiritual death.
As for yesterday's discussion . . . I really don't know what to say because I don't understand what that was all about. In the end I just sensed that you were troubled and gave you space. I don't know what's wrong and I don't know why you wouldn't ask clarifying questions before you wrote what you wrote . . . nor do I need to know. What I do know is that the approach didn't work and obviously suggest the use of another.
I hope you feel better soon.
No one ever spoke about how humanity was under a dual curse, the curse that causes Spiritual death, and the Curse that causes physical death. I have heard perhaps hundreds of John M's sermons, even purchased 8-10 of his audio cassette series, and he never covered this all-important doctrine. How is that possible? How is it possible that our preachers and teachers aren't cramming down our throats the Purpose of Christ, the Work of Christ, and the Effect of Christ? We need to know these things backward and forwards. We need to understand the Gospel. There is so, so much Scripture to teach on this subject, where if I were a pastor, there wouldn't be a single sermon I would did not reference the Spiritual Circumcision of Christ, for it is the very fulcrum of Spiritual Life and Spiritual death. And so this is the Mysterious Plan that the Apostle Paul speaks of in Ephesians and Colossians. Knowing this Mystery could very well be the difference between Spiritual Life and Spiritual death.
As for yesterday's discussion . . . I really don't know what to say because I don't understand what that was all about. In the end I just sensed that you were troubled and gave you space. I don't know what's wrong and I don't know why you wouldn't ask clarifying questions before you wrote what you wrote . . . nor do I need to know. What I do know is that the approach didn't work and obviously suggest the use of another.
I hope you feel better soon.
Well, there you have it. My recommendation is that you slow down a bit so that you do not stumble over your own feet.
One thing to remember is that I am always available to answer clarifying questions if you feel that I am off balance with Scripture. That approach works very, very well for me and I believe that you would appreciate the outcome much more. It would certainly be painless.
One thing to remember is that I am always available to answer clarifying questions if you feel that I am off balance with Scripture. That approach works very, very well for me and I believe that you would appreciate the outcome much more. It would certainly be painless.
Complete word of God.. equals finished inspiration of scripture.
It's the process christendom went thru to come to this point. Not the paper itself.
It isn't the time when people said 'this is the canon' .. it's when God finished inspiring the writers of the NT. Also there is the point with the death of the apostles .. who carried their gifts with them till death.
It's the process christendom went thru to come to this point. Not the paper itself.
It isn't the time when people said 'this is the canon' .. it's when God finished inspiring the writers of the NT. Also there is the point with the death of the apostles .. who carried their gifts with them till death.
Personally: When the message in tongues is being spoken, typically I'll sense a "burden" to give interpretation, and be "aware of" (not really "hear") a few words in English which I understand (by experience) to be the beginning of the "interpretation". When the tongues speaker has finished, then I'll speak the few words I have, knowing that more words will follow, until the "interpretation" is finished. Then the flow of words will stop, and I'll shut up, and sit down. Mentally, I contribute NOTHING, and simply speak the words I'm given. It's the same with prophetic utterance, except there's no "Tongues" as a lead-off.
Note: The "Interpretation" isn't necessarily a "Translation" of the spoken tongues. I've come to the conclusion that the "Tongue" is sometimes only a "Trumpet sound" to prime the congregation for the message to come by interpretation. On the other hand (unless all our pastors, and missionaries are bald-faced liars), there are instances where the "Tongue" will be understood by persons in the audience in their own language, including cases where a gifted interpretation is spoken that matches what the one understanding heard. There are also cases where something spoken in the "common language" is heard and understood in one or more different languages in the audience. God, after all isn't a "One trick pony"
I recall once in Marion Ohio at a FGBMFI meeting, there was a message in a tongue, and immediately the fallow on my immediate left stood and began to interpret, but immediately, I was also burdened to interpret, and got a few words. then the fellow on my left stopped speaking, and I immediately got up and spoke the words I had, for another 30-40 seconds, then I ran out of words, and the fellow om my immediate Right stood, and continued the interpretation from where I left off, and finished it. (A "hat trick" as it were). That's never happened again.
Note: The "Interpretation" isn't necessarily a "Translation" of the spoken tongues. I've come to the conclusion that the "Tongue" is sometimes only a "Trumpet sound" to prime the congregation for the message to come by interpretation. On the other hand (unless all our pastors, and missionaries are bald-faced liars), there are instances where the "Tongue" will be understood by persons in the audience in their own language, including cases where a gifted interpretation is spoken that matches what the one understanding heard. There are also cases where something spoken in the "common language" is heard and understood in one or more different languages in the audience. God, after all isn't a "One trick pony"
I recall once in Marion Ohio at a FGBMFI meeting, there was a message in a tongue, and immediately the fallow on my immediate left stood and began to interpret, but immediately, I was also burdened to interpret, and got a few words. then the fellow on my left stopped speaking, and I immediately got up and spoke the words I had, for another 30-40 seconds, then I ran out of words, and the fellow om my immediate Right stood, and continued the interpretation from where I left off, and finished it. (A "hat trick" as it were). That's never happened again.
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Paul wrote the scriptures or most of 'em ... here is what the written, complete word says
"I would that ye did all speak in tongues ... earnestly desire the gifts"
The written scriptures are not greater than the preaching of Paul or Peter when they spoke the word of God in person.
Paul who wrote the scriptures prophesied and spoke in tongues, healed the sick and did mighty miracles. The churches he set up had these ministries and gifts in them.
I don't think what you wrote makes much sense.
"I would that ye did all speak in tongues ... earnestly desire the gifts"
The written scriptures are not greater than the preaching of Paul or Peter when they spoke the word of God in person.
Paul who wrote the scriptures prophesied and spoke in tongues, healed the sick and did mighty miracles. The churches he set up had these ministries and gifts in them.
I don't think what you wrote makes much sense.
This is a clear case of looking for in scripture what you want it to say, not what it says. " . . . the multitude came together, and were confounded, because they were hearing each one speaking in his own language."
It doesn't say they were hearing them in their own language, but they heard them speaking their own language. This can't be an early form if interpretation because it's not an example of someone hearing and comprehending a language not their own.
There are other problems: 1) 1 Corinthians 14:39 says, "Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues." The gift of tongues is speaking in tongues; there is no hearing in tongues.; 2) The gift of interpretation is necessary precisely because there is no gift of hearing in tongues. The interpreter hears and understands but his gift isn't hearing in tongues, but interpreting; 3) If there were such a thing as hearing in tongues, every member of a congregation would have to have it; otherwise, only those with the gift could understand. This seems pretty unlikely in light of the fact that spiritual gifts are spread around. No one gift is given to everyone.
It doesn't say they were hearing them in their own language, but they heard them speaking their own language. This can't be an early form if interpretation because it's not an example of someone hearing and comprehending a language not their own.
There are other problems: 1) 1 Corinthians 14:39 says, "Therefore, brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues." The gift of tongues is speaking in tongues; there is no hearing in tongues.; 2) The gift of interpretation is necessary precisely because there is no gift of hearing in tongues. The interpreter hears and understands but his gift isn't hearing in tongues, but interpreting; 3) If there were such a thing as hearing in tongues, every member of a congregation would have to have it; otherwise, only those with the gift could understand. This seems pretty unlikely in light of the fact that spiritual gifts are spread around. No one gift is given to everyone.
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Do you agree there is formal prayer and prayer that is unctioned? just as there is preaching which is just perfunctory and preaching which is ALIVE and anointed?
When preaching or praying is anointed it can be extempore and you wait upon the Lord to give you each sentence as you go along.
So it is with tongues and with interpretation. The anointing comes and your words come one line at a time, you step out in faith with the first line and the second line follows and so on.
Now you see ... some folks do not wait on the anointing but launch out on their own, this is always bad.
But then this is what goes on in all evangelical churches or a good many of them. Formal prayer and unanointed preaching.
Tongues and interpretation are just an example of extemporaneous prayer and prophesying.
When preaching or praying is anointed it can be extempore and you wait upon the Lord to give you each sentence as you go along.
So it is with tongues and with interpretation. The anointing comes and your words come one line at a time, you step out in faith with the first line and the second line follows and so on.
Now you see ... some folks do not wait on the anointing but launch out on their own, this is always bad.
But then this is what goes on in all evangelical churches or a good many of them. Formal prayer and unanointed preaching.
Tongues and interpretation are just an example of extemporaneous prayer and prophesying.
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The real question is: What is this "anointing?" Paul wasn't as polished as some of those he referred to as "super-apostles"; but is there any doubt his preaching was anointed? Kenneth Copeland preaches extemporaneously. Are we to believe he's anointed? I've listened to many rock musicians say they become "possessed" onstage. I can hear it already: These are Satan's counterfeits. Well, that goes both ways. How do we know an "anointed" preacher is anointed by the Holy Spirit and not a stream of consciousness conjured from their own mind?
How about something that can't be produced by human effort: Fruit of the Spirit, sound Biblical exegesis, and the like.
How about something that can't be produced by human effort: Fruit of the Spirit, sound Biblical exegesis, and the like.
Where do people get the idea that the Corinthian church was a model church we should emulate? 1 Corinthians 12-14 are the go-to chapters for tongue talkers to justify their practices. But what do these chapters actually say? They don't say the Corinthian church was a model church. They say how much they got wrong!
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Not so. It is God's word and His indwelling Spirit that sheds light on what is and is not true. Why do you think the enemy fights so hard to make people question what the bible actually reveals happens when a person is indwelt by the Holy Ghost? He knows that once a person actually accepts that God's initial presence in one's body results in their renewed spirit speaking to their Savior in an unknown tongue, he is done. He will have lost those who ask for and receive the Holy Ghost as Jesus states in Luke 11:13. Gone will be the days of manipulating. God will have arrived and His indwelling light will shatter the enemy's darkness into smithereens.
"How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth!
Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path." Ps 119:103-105
"How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth!
Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path." Ps 119:103-105
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