Thanks persistent for your comment. God heard Abraham's prayer regarding Ishmael and promised to bless him and to make him a great nation. However, this has often been thought of by various congregations as meaning Islam or Muslims. This is not the case at all, since the word 'blessed' in the Bible means to be saved. Rather, Ishmael was a picture of true believers in Christ which Muslims are not particularly, since they do not receive Christ in most cases. Rather, I think Islam is like any other religion of the world outside of Christ, based on works and so forth, often neglecting the idea of Christ's forgiveness as the means of salvation, rather than retribution and upholding rules, etc.
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Thanks persistent for your comment. God heard Abraham's prayer regarding Ishmael and promised to bless him and to make him a great nation. However, this has often been thought of by various congregations as meaning Islam or Muslims. This is not the case at all, since the word 'blessed' in the Bible means to be saved. Rather, Ishmael was a picture of true believers in Christ which Muslims are not particularly, since they do not receive Christ in most cases. Rather, I think Islam is like any other religion of the world outside of Christ, based on works and so forth, often neglecting the idea of Christ's forgiveness as the means of salvation, rather than retribution and upholding rules, etc.
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persistent
Guest
Hey Birdie that is very interesting. I did have some suspicion about the possibility that many so called preachers or teachers of scripture don't understand what they are talking about.
My introduction to 'Christianity' was with WWCG, Armstrong, and now I see splinter groups everywhere and none of them know or consider any other understanding and it seems they have all been led astray. My experience with them was on and off for maybe 4yrs but all I recall is that the focus they had was proving their viewpoint and understanding was correct and everyone else was deceived. Now just as you point out here, the blessing, and the eventuality of the 'great nations', are to be reconsidered. Definitely for me. What I say about Muslims in general is an understanding I have come to after finding on Bible Hub a reference of, possibly Vincent's word studies, that blasphemy is not pointing a person to the truth. Maybe the Muslims are not blasphemous in that in general they are blinded to the truth. I have been very well acquainted with several Muslims in the recent past and keep thinking that now that I have had my eyes opened to the Savior I should get in contact with these folks as it seems they, some of them, were trying to get me to accept Islam. One of them even gave me a Koran and kept giving me little gifts but some of it was because I helped him get a good job.
Thanks persistent. As with people from all countries and religious backgrounds, it is always possible that Christ will call this or that person to himself. People from all walks of life could potentially experience this, and groups are sometimes best thought of as a diverse array of unique individuals. Jesus noted in the gospel of John that salvation is of the Jews: "Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews." But remember that a Jew, the Bible says, is one inwardly and not outwardly. Further, Jesus said: "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
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persistent
Guest
Thanks for that Birdie. Would you know about the 'idea' that today we are to consider 'spiritual Israel'. We see Israel 'restored' 1948. OT Israel was 12 tribes not just Judah (Jews). Then the split Samaria north and Judah/Benjamin south. And now, today, Israel. I have been in phone conversations with a teacher of a spin-off of Israel of God (IoG) here in Chicago and he tells me that he sees Israel as Edom and that IoG are true Israel. Uncanny, the idea of OT Israel spending 450 yrs in slavery and today the 1619 movement. And "my thought' there are scriptures that mention the eventuality of people in fear of 'Israel' or ? and there are many ghettoes in the world where even the police are reluctant to patrol. Crazy me maybe? Isaiah 41:10 ¶ Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness. 11 Behold, all they that were incensed against thee shall be ashamed and confounded: they shall be as nothing; and they that strive with thee shall perish. 12 Thou shalt seek them, and shalt not find them, even them that contended with thee: they that war against thee shall be as nothing, and as a thing of nought. 13 For I the LORD thy God will hold thy right hand, saying unto thee, Fear not; I will help thee. 14 Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer, the Holy One of Israel. 15 Behold, I will make thee a new sharp threshing instrument having teeth: thou shalt thresh the mountains, and beat them small, and shalt make the hills as chaff. 16 Thou shalt fan them, and the wind shall carry them away, and the whirlwind shall scatter them: and thou shalt rejoice in the LORD, and shalt glory in the Holy One of Israel.
Thanks persistent. I enjoyed very much the Isaiah 41 scripture you quote. There are many congregations that have the idea that a political nation of Israel will show up in the end times and God will save this political nation of Israel. They see the current nation state of Israel in the Middle East as important in this idea. However, I do not see this as they do. In my opinion, this idea of a political nation of Israel in the end times comes from a misinterpretation scriptures like Romans 11. Romans 11 mentions: "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins." This verse is talking about all believers in Christ, which are called Israel (the spiritual Israel you mention) It says that part of the cultural Jews were blinded (unsaved) and part of the Gentiles also, but when all of the cultural Jews and Gentiles who are saved is finished (the last Gentile to be saved is saved) then that will be it. All done. It says SO all Israel will be saved, meaning IN THIS MANNER all spiritual Israel (all in Christ) will be saved. The word SO is not talking about and THEN all political Israel will be saved, as some would-be theologians say. Notice the covenant spoken of is the covenant we are all familiar with: The Deliverer (Jesus) comes from Zion (heaven) and turns people to be saved to him (Jacob is a picture of all believers in Christ). That's God's covenant. He takes away our sins.
from Deuteronomy 4 and Isaiah 55
the law
“Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.”
Exodus 23:20-21
The gospel
“Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David. Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.”
Isaiah 55:3, 6-7 KJV
“Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, And whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.”
Romans 4:6-8 KJV
“She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.”
John 8:11-12 KJV
“And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.”
Luke 7:48 KJV
“And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.”
Luke 5:20
“I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.”
1 John 2:12 KJV
“Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.”
Luke 7:47 KJV
He Abundantly pardons and calls to repentance those he loves and who love him in return
“Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
Luke 24:45-47 KJV
let the wicked forsake his way and turn to the lord he will abundantly pardon freely and to his joy and pleasure like the prodigal he wants us back on his arms even though we went astray to change our garments , and give us shoes and a family crest , and kiss our heads in a long embrace he’s waiting and watching willing that all should return home
Chapters 38 and 39 are still future and chapters 40 to the end of the book relate to the millennium reign of Christ'