Is It Anything About The Sabbath That We Must Know?

[Pilgrimshope]

The old covenant is truth, given by the Lord, it was not changed when we were given the new improved covenant. Matt. 5: 17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

In the OT, the law was explained to man through symbols. Perfect animals was used as a symbol of Christ, clean food was used as a symbol of what is spiritual pure and clean, cutting flesh was used as a symbol of belonging to Christ. The new covenant does not change the law, it changes the way the law is delivered to us-----from the material to the spiritual. The substance belongs to Christ,

Christ is the truth. God does not change, God is the same forever.

“The old covenant is truth, given by the Lord, it was not changed”

“For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect,

but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭7:12, 18-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For the law was given by Moses,

but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:17‬ ‭

“and not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: but their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament;

which vail is done away in Christ.

But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:13-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[TMS]

There are at least 2 laws

One is called the royal law. Jam 2:8-12
One is the "law contained in ordinances". Eph 2:15

God spoke one. Deu 4:12,13 and wrote it in stone Himself. Ex 24:12, 31:18
Moses spoke the other. Lev 1:1-3, and wrote then in a book. Chro 35:12

One was kept inside the Ark under the mercy seat. Deu 10:1-5.
The other laws were placed in the side of the Ark. Deu 31:24-26

One law gives a knowledge of sin. Rom 3:20, 7:7
One law was added because of sin. Gal 3:19

One is spiritual. Rom 7:14
One is carnal. Heb 9:1-10

A law points out sin. 1 John 3:4, and is the standard in Judgment. James 2:8-12.
Another law is a shadow, that pointed to Jesus, the Gospel, and the ministry of Christ. Lev 4:27, John 1:29,
And was abolished. Eph 2:15, Gal 4:13.

One is till heaven and Earth pass, Matt 5:18, Luke 16:17.
One was till the seed (Christ) comes. Gal 3:19.

One law is forever, Ps 111:7-8
One law was to end at the cross. Col 2:14-17.

The moral law that reveals Gods character, and shows us that we are sinful and need a saviour.
The cerimonial laws were added to help us see the plan of salvation.

There must be at least 2 different laws.

 

[TMS]

There are many sabbaths that were added because of sin in the cerimonial laws.
The sabbath that was given and made holy before sin is part of the the moral law.
There is a difference.

 

[Sipsey]

There are many sabbaths that were added because of sin in the cerimonial laws.
The sabbath that was given and made holy before sin is part of the the moral law.
There is a difference.

Thank you for this overview. I copied your listing for further reading and when I clicked on James 2:8 to look up the verse, my IPad carried me to an e-book in Logos I had forgotten about. It is an exposition of the book of James by someone I have read much from. It is the best study of James I have come across in many years. Are you familiar with Zodhiates?
Faith, Hope, and Love- An Exposition of the Epistle of James
Spiros Zodhiates, Th.D.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

There are many sabbaths that were added because of sin in the cerimonial laws.
The sabbath that was given and made holy before sin is part of the the moral law.
There is a difference.

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s based on God resting from creating this heaven and earth

God was about to do a new thing

“Thou hast heard, see all this; and will not ye declare it? I have shewed thee new things from this time, even hidden things, and thou didst not know them. They are created now, and not from the beginning; even before the day when thou heardest them not; lest thou shouldest say, Behold, I knew them.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭48:6-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65

you see how God was no longer resting from his work ? When Jesus healed on a sabbath the Jews were trying to condemn him by the sabbath command which is based on God resting from his labor creating the world

“And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:16-17‬ ‭

That rest had ended and he was working to crate the new people that will eventually fill the new creation he’s created and our rest is now found here in this new thing he has done

“Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

says the one who did his work upon the olds sabbath

the sabbath command is based on and part of this world Christ is our rest in the new to come

ever notice the sevens in the revelation of Jesus Christ ?

seven churches seven candles seven angels seven trumpets seven seals seven vials seven stars seven spirits of God Christ is our sabbath a particular day a week has nothing to do with the new creation it was based on God resting after he created this one but he went back to work to establish new things

 

[Inquisitor]

Monday 8-15-22 2nd. Day Of The Weekly Cycle, Av 16 5782 56th. Summer Day

• The Sabbath is a memorial of creation. Every time we rest upon the seventh day, as God did at creation, we commemorate that grand event. (Exodus Twenty:11) It is also a sign between God and us that He sets us apart as His special people.

1 And God spake all these words, saying,

2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
www.bibleinfo.com/en/questions/facts-about-the-sabbath
34 facts about the Sabbath | Bibleinfo.com

Love, Walter

Hebrews 8:13
When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete.

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

The sabbath is one of the 613 laws given to the nation of Israel.

We are not under the law be it moral, ceremonial, civil, health, etc.

We are under grace now and not under the letter of the law.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Hebrews 8:13
When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete.

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

The sabbath is one of the 613 laws given to the nation of Israel.

We are not under the law be it moral, ceremonial, civil, health, etc.

We are under grace now and not under the letter of the law.

amen the law is one unit

“And afterward he read all the words of the law, the blessings and cursings, according to all that is written in the book of the law. There was not a word of all that Moses commanded, which Joshua read not before all the congregation of Israel, with the women, and the little ones, and the strangers that were conversant among them.”
‭‭Joshua‬ ‭8:34-35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The intent of it was this

“Take this book of the law, and put it at the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭31:26‬ ‭

everything Moses commanded israel was for this purpose

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If you keep the law it can’t justify you because it’s meant to be a witness against you when you sin to point you out and say “ you are guilty “

Christ took away that witness against us

“And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

and having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:13-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬


he’s talking about this

“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

which is talking about this

“This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.

This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands.

Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices By the space of forty years in the wilderness? Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, And the star of your god Remphan, Figures which ye made to worship them: And I will carry you away beyond Babylon.

who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭7:37-38, 41-43, 53‬ ‭KJV‬‬


where as the gospel is a direct statement from God the fe thy r through Jesus Christ the son and offers thy e holt spirit in return for belief things required for salvation which the law bekng ordained of angels nd given through their dospostion of unforgiveness never even speaks of this disposition who chi God gave them under law when leading them to the promised land

“Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭23:20-21‬ ‭

this is not the ordination of Jesus Christ our lord it’s opposite he does forgive and pardon transgression whereas the dospostion which shapes the law is made to impute sin and hold Guilty and won’t forgive sin

this could never happen under Christs ordination , but if he had set his name on an unforgiving angel yes it can

“And they that found him gathering sticks upon the sabbath brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.

And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.”
‭‭Numbers‬ ‭15:33, 35-36‬ ‭

“Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭13:8


Jesus doesn’t command us to stone people for gathering firewood on a sabbath but an unforgiving angel who will Not pardon did

 

[Inquisitor]

amen the law is one unit

“And afterward he read all the words of the law, the blessings and cursings, according to all that is written in the book of the law. There was not a word of all that Moses commanded, which Joshua read not before all the congregation of Israel, with the women, and the little ones, and the strangers that were conversant among them.”
‭‭Joshua‬ ‭8:34-35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The intent of it was this

“Take this book of the law, and put it at the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭31:26‬ ‭

everything Moses commanded israel was for this purpose

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If you keep the law it can’t justify you because it’s meant to be a witness against you when you sin to point you out and say “ you are guilty “

Christ took away that witness against us

“And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

and having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:13-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬


he’s talking about this

“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

which is talking about this

“This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.

This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands.

Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices By the space of forty years in the wilderness? Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, And the star of your god Remphan, Figures which ye made to worship them: And I will carry you away beyond Babylon.

who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭7:37-38, 41-43, 53‬ ‭KJV‬‬


where as the gospel is a direct statement from God the fe thy r through Jesus Christ the son and offers thy e holt spirit in return for belief things required for salvation which the law bekng ordained of angels nd given through their dospostion of unforgiveness never even speaks of this disposition who chi God gave them under law when leading them to the promised land

“Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭23:20-21‬ ‭

this is not the ordination of Jesus Christ our lord it’s opposite he does forgive and pardon transgression whereas the dospostion which shapes the law is made to impute sin and hold Guilty and won’t forgive sin

this could never happen under Christs ordination , but if he had set his name on an unforgiving angel yes it can

“And they that found him gathering sticks upon the sabbath brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.

And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.”
‭‭Numbers‬ ‭15:33, 35-36‬ ‭

“Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭13:8


Jesus doesn’t command us to stone people for gathering firewood on a sabbath but an unforgiving angel who will Not pardon did

I can see that you have some history in dealing with legalism.

 

[TMS]

seven churches seven candles seven angels seven trumpets seven seals seven vials seven stars seven spirits of God Christ is our sabbath a particular day a week has nothing to do with the new creation it was based on God resting after he created this one but he went back to work to establish new things

There is a lot of presumption in your thinking.

Jesus kept the sabbath perfectly.

The leaders were trying to find fault and according to their understanding Jesus wasn't keeping the sabbath.

If Jesus wasn't keeping the sabbath, why did He call them hypocrites?
Why did Jesus call Himself Lord of the sabbath?

Mat 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. 8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Jesus is planly saying He is guiltless of breaking the sabbath. If He was breaking the sabbath because it no longer existed, He would have said so.

He does not say the sabbath is not to be kept.

 

[gb9]

There is a lot of presumption in your thinking.

Jesus kept the sabbath perfectly.

The leaders were trying to find fault and according to their understanding Jesus wasn't keeping the sabbath.

If Jesus wasn't keeping the sabbath, why did He call them hypocrites?
Why did Jesus call Himself Lord of the sabbath?

Mat 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. 8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Jesus is planly saying He is guiltless of breaking the sabbath. If He was breaking the sabbath because it no longer existed, He would have said so.

He does not say the sabbath is not to be kept.

nor does He say that gentiles are to keep it.

Jesus said at the end of Matthew that they were " teach the things that I have commanded you"

not what the Father said to Moses, but what He said while on earth.

and He never told gentiles to keep the Jewish Sabbath.

 

[TMS]

The seventh day sabbath was blessed, sanctified and made holy.

Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Exo 16:23 And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD:....
Exo 20:8 KJV Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD:.....
Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

It is presumption to say that the seventh day is not holy, not blessed, and not sanctified, when there is no bible verse to say so.

There is no bible verse that tells us that the sabbath is not holy, sanctified or blessed.

 

[gb9]

The seventh day sabbath was blessed, sanctified and made holy.

Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Exo 16:23 And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD:....
Exo 20:8 KJV Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD:.....
Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

It is presumption to say that the seventh day is not holy, not blessed, and not sanctified, when there is no bible verse to say so.

There is no bible verse that tells us that the sabbath is not holy, sanctified or blessed.

nor is there any verse that tells gentiles to keep it.

 

[TMS]

nor does He say that gentiles are to keep it.

Jesus said at the end of Matthew that they were " teach the things that I have commanded you"

not what the Father said to Moses, but what He said while on earth.

and He never told gentiles to keep the Jewish Sabbath.

But are we Jews or are we Gentiles?
If i have been adopted into the family of Christ, I've become a Jew, by adoption. Spiritual Jews, and the law is spiritual.
Paul tells us we are grafted into the olive tree. Our roots are Jewsih.
There is no difference between jew and gentile today we are all the same in Gods eyes. We are all saved the same way.

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Jesus said that He is Lord of the sabbath, and that He didn't come to change the law.

 

[TMS]

nor is there any verse that tells gentiles to keep it.

What about....
Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

 

[Lafftur]

REST with God on the Sabbath…ALL is FINISHED IN CHRIST… Rest…..peace….abide….know you are loved and provision has been made for you… rest….

 

[TMS]

We are under grace now and not under the letter of the law.

Were Adam, Noah, Abraham, moses, David, and Jeremiah saved by works or by keeping the law, or were they saved by faith? Were they under grace or did they earn salvation?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

“Jesus kept the sabbath perfectly. “

what’s the commandment ?

“Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20:9-11‬ ‭

what’s Jesus defense ?

“The man departed, and told the Jews that it was Jesus, which had made him whole. And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day. But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:15-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Clearly Jesus didn’t deny doing work on a sabbath day and clearly the commandment is to do no work.

No gathering any food is specifically named in Moses word ? Didn’t Jesus disciples do that also On a sabbath ?
when Jesus came forth you have to let the shadows go and embrace the reality

This is what the law invited

“And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him.

And he saith unto the man which had the withered hand, Stand forth. And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? ( note either is a work )

But they held their peace. And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other. And the Pharisees went forth, and straightway took counsel with the Herodians against him, how they might destroy him.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭3:2-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬
he’s revealing the truth God doesn’t care if we do good on a sabbath if it involves work he cares that every day we do good and not evil

“But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, ( the two tablets with the commandments on them ) was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

how shall not the ministration of the spirit ( the gospel ) be rather glorious?

For if the ministration of condemnation ( the law ) be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: and not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: but their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:7-9, 11-15‬ ‭

“knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1:9-10‬ ‭

when you can’t get past what Moses said It’s going to hinder the ability to accept the gospel.

the law was born of sin for sinners without the spirit and was only ever meant to last until Christ came and died and rose

“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions,

till the seed should come ( Christ ) to whom the promise was made;

and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s not at all a presumption it’s just being able to accept what’s there in Christ and hear what the apostles are saying

one day is not more than another whether you do good or evil in Christ is what matters

and those stone tablets aren’t how we worship God anymore that’s how those sinners Paul explains about did

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the law proves we are all sinners it cannot save us to jeep
It’s deeds like the sabbath commandment given to israel

But the gospel has come now and can save believers

“But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

note it’s not saying parts of the law or just this or that commandment but the law as a whole

once your convicted of breaking say a sabbath command under the law it’s death

“And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.”
‭‭Numbers‬ ‭15:32, 35-36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

hopefully you understand Jesus isn’t the one commanding that but the angel who God set over them is .

“Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭23:20-21‬ ‭

That’s what Paul’s talking about so often and what Stephen is explaining ordained of angels “ disposition of angels “ receivers the law from an angel who spoke to Moses on Sinai who bore the lords name because of thoer transgressions worshipping idols

It was an angel all along even when Moses was called

“This Moses whom they refused, saying, Who made thee a ruler and a judge? the same did God send to be a ruler and a deliverer by the hand of the angel which appeared to him in the bush.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭7:35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭7:30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And on the Mount

“This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭7:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s why Paul goes into “ don’t be worshipping angels when he’s explaining don’t let people judge you by those laws from Sinai given to Moses

“And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands. Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven; ( angels ) as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices By the space of forty years in the wilderness?”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭7:41-42‬ ‭

“who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭7:53‬ ‭KJV‬‬
“Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Even this wasn’t actually God but was the mediation of angels like Paul teaches

“And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭3:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m not sure how much clear evidence you would require Sometimes it doesn’t matter what we see in scripture because we already know in our own mind.

 

[TMS]

REST with God on the Sabbath…ALL is FINISHED IN CHRIST… Rest…..peace….abide….know you are loved and provision has been made for you… rest….

Thanks. The Provision Christ has made is pure love beyond comprehension.

But can i murder and steal, can i continue in sin thinking all is finished and Jesus loves me ?
Because of His grace and Justification, i choose to obey Him, not continue in sin.

Not that I'm perfect and never fail. But I try to keep His commandments because i love Him.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Psa 119:163 I hate and abhor lying: but thy law do I love. .....165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.

 

[TMS]

“But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

note it’s not saying parts of the law or just this or that commandment but the law as a whole

once your convicted of breaking say a sabbath command under the law it’s death

You talked about many points...

In regard to the one above....

Before Christ came how did people see Gods character, and righteousness?
Through the principles, the witness of prophets, past events and nature etc.
Now that Christ has come we no longer need sacrifices and priests, because we have the true sacrifice and the true high priest.
We can see the righteousness of God in Jesus.
David loved the law, because it showed Gods love.

The "law" can be all of the OT teachings, the moral law, the cerimonial laws, so it is important to understand which law is being talked about.

It is clear that the moral law identifies sin.

Please understand, ....
Law reveals Sin.
Sin = death.
No Law = no death.

One sin = death. To steal, murder, lie, or not keep the sabbath holy. = death

The Law is death to us because it identifies us as sinners.

Does the gospel save us from sin, or does it remove the Law that reveals sin?

All have sinned. So all have transgressed the law.
If you have transgressed the law. How did it disappear at the cross?
If the law ended at the cross how are we classed as sinners today?

We are saved from death but we are told to go and sin no more.
Is the law present today or not present today?
I know grace and mercy is present today.

 

[Inquisitor]

Were Adam, Noah, Abraham, moses, David, and Jeremiah saved by works or by keeping the law, or were they saved by faith? Were they under grace or did they earn salvation?

Hmmm. I know Moses and David were law breakers, Moses did not make the holy land. King David was definitely a law breaker. So it would be impossible for those two to be saved by the law. Both would have had a deep understanding of their own sinfulness. So legal obedience merely grants the knowledge of sin and not much else.

Abraham believed God and was credited with righteousness. So faith is looking good.

The trouble with the examples you gave is that they were all flawed people.

Two better examples are Enoch and Elijah.

These two did not see death. They must have been free from the law of sin and death.

Are they already in heaven?

Mwhaaaaaaaa.