What annoys me about people telling single Christians about dating
- Thread starter JohnB
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I think you have had a unique set of experiences. I haven't seen a number of these things in church-- pushing people to marry within the church, pushing them to marry off. Some east Asian churches may do that a bit. I could see how it could be a problem if a church were overly controlling and even cult-like from a sociological perspective.
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My wife and I were both virgins, but I was in my late 20's and she was in her early 20s, three years or so apart. And we were in an Asian culture where there was a stigma attached for either male or female not to be a virgin at marriage (unless they were widowed, etc.). The US needs to bring back the stigma. Bring back the stigma! (We could start an advertising campaign. What a catchphrase.)
I was picky. I wanted a physically beautiful wife (for my own personal standards for looks), who loved Jesus, who was a virgin. I prayed for a wife, then I started praying more intensely and soon after that, we met and started seeing each other. It turns out, we had met a year before, and I remember seeing her across a room that day and wondering if God would give me a woman that beautiful to be my wife.
I was picky. I wanted a physically beautiful wife (for my own personal standards for looks), who loved Jesus, who was a virgin. I prayed for a wife, then I started praying more intensely and soon after that, we met and started seeing each other. It turns out, we had met a year before, and I remember seeing her across a room that day and wondering if God would give me a woman that beautiful to be my wife.
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As an middle aged married man with a 5 in front of his age, I do kind of miss both myself and my wife having more 'energy' when we were younger. We are still active now... mainly when she isn't fasting....maybe at or above average frequency compared to statistics. But certain activities were extremely frequent when we were young, and I miss us both being young sometimes. But we did have a pretty good run, now as we go into a job or fast walk as we age. I miss the run.
Then I've thought there is neither marriage nor giving in marriage in the age to come. I presume that means no sex. In the resurrection, they are like the angels of God in heaven. If angels ever did have sex, then it didn't turn out well for them and it wasn't a good thing (according to a traditional interpretation of the Nephilim story.) So I'm thinking there will be no sexual intercourse in the age to come. Is that a sad thing?
I really believe that the glories of this coming age, and the experiences we will have as being manifested sons of God, more glorious creatures than we are now with our corruptible bodies now... will far outweigh the enjoyment of sex, both the physical and emotional aspects of it.
And I believe saints who are faithful to abstain from fornication though they want to marry but live in a culture where it is very hard to will be glad they did.
Then I've thought there is neither marriage nor giving in marriage in the age to come. I presume that means no sex. In the resurrection, they are like the angels of God in heaven. If angels ever did have sex, then it didn't turn out well for them and it wasn't a good thing (according to a traditional interpretation of the Nephilim story.) So I'm thinking there will be no sexual intercourse in the age to come. Is that a sad thing?
I really believe that the glories of this coming age, and the experiences we will have as being manifested sons of God, more glorious creatures than we are now with our corruptible bodies now... will far outweigh the enjoyment of sex, both the physical and emotional aspects of it.
And I believe saints who are faithful to abstain from fornication though they want to marry but live in a culture where it is very hard to will be glad they did.
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The partner you marry may not have the same idea of length and frequency as the one wanting 'long and often.' IMO, it makes sense to discuss this with a future potential partner before engagement, carefully in a way that doesn't lead to falling into temptation, to find out if your partner is going to be willing to meet your needs which will be 'long and often.' Memories are selective, so one may need to have the conversation more than once and at some point the other party should consider this as a factor in the decision to marry.
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I'd like to add, Paul warns against having sex with prostitutes, that he who does so is one with her in body, and Christ should not be joined with a harlot! Your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit.
I'm going in a bit different direction from your post here... but it is legitimate to tell people to marry if they are tempted with fornication, to help them avoid it. But that doesn't say ___who to marry___. Just grabbing the first Christian girl who is agreeable to marriage (or man for a woman) just to have sex doesn't make sense. Some people are poor potential marriage partners. And Paul also writes against divorce in this passage. If you marry someone who is a high flight-risk or someone who is hard to get along with, you may end up not having your sexual needs met, anyway.
A strong desire for sex, for the emotional connection related to it, for certain forms of emotional intimacy, family, etc. can all be drives to marry, that might lead one to fornication if one does not marry. These are things we can see about ourselves to tell us we should marry. But they do not tell us who to marry. Choosing a good spouse is another matter.
I'm going in a bit different direction from your post here... but it is legitimate to tell people to marry if they are tempted with fornication, to help them avoid it. But that doesn't say ___who to marry___. Just grabbing the first Christian girl who is agreeable to marriage (or man for a woman) just to have sex doesn't make sense. Some people are poor potential marriage partners. And Paul also writes against divorce in this passage. If you marry someone who is a high flight-risk or someone who is hard to get along with, you may end up not having your sexual needs met, anyway.
A strong desire for sex, for the emotional connection related to it, for certain forms of emotional intimacy, family, etc. can all be drives to marry, that might lead one to fornication if one does not marry. These are things we can see about ourselves to tell us we should marry. But they do not tell us who to marry. Choosing a good spouse is another matter.
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This passage should be enough of a warning:
I Thessalonians 4
2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:
6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.
7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
There aren't a lot of passages written to New Testament believers about God getting vengence against them. There is also the 'shall not inherit the kingdom of God' passage in I Corinthians 6.
Hebrews 12 warns against the root of bitterness springing up that defiles many, listing fornication there in that passage also. And in I Corinthians 5, not delivering a fornicator over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh could cause leaven to spread in the church.
I Thessalonians 4
2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;
5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God:
6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.
7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
There aren't a lot of passages written to New Testament believers about God getting vengence against them. There is also the 'shall not inherit the kingdom of God' passage in I Corinthians 6.
Hebrews 12 warns against the root of bitterness springing up that defiles many, listing fornication there in that passage also. And in I Corinthians 5, not delivering a fornicator over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh could cause leaven to spread in the church.
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I don't see where he does that either, even though a lot of the prostitutes in Corinth, if not all of them, would have been temple prostitutes. I think they shaved their heads and painted themselves white with lead paint. I don't see how that was good for business, but it may have had to do with religious tradition.
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I find the fuzzy use of 'idolatry' to be a bit irksome. There is more than one sin. Paul equates greed with idolatry. But where does it say choosing sex over the Lord is 'idolatry.' One thing about David was that he never bowed the knee to an idol, as far as we know. But he did commit sexual sin, not just a case of fornication, but actually adultery.
I think the idea comes from interpreting 'having no other gods before me' to mean something like 'no other gods ahead of me' as opposed to 'no other gods in my presence' and that latter might not be the best way to understand it given God's unique presence. But I hope you get the picture. Then the argument turns into whatever you put before God is an idol. I don't see the word used so broadly in scripture. God wasn't saying not to have any God's before Him.... but Baal or Ashteroth in 2nd place is okay.
I think the idea comes from interpreting 'having no other gods before me' to mean something like 'no other gods ahead of me' as opposed to 'no other gods in my presence' and that latter might not be the best way to understand it given God's unique presence. But I hope you get the picture. Then the argument turns into whatever you put before God is an idol. I don't see the word used so broadly in scripture. God wasn't saying not to have any God's before Him.... but Baal or Ashteroth in 2nd place is okay.
It is worth discussing. A couple could go through passages of scripture on marriage. Even if you are not sure what you will want exactly, it is worth it to both commit prior to marriage to render 'due benevolence' in the marriage. There aren't a lot of voices out there in the world or the church encouraging this, it seems to me.
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@Dirtman and @presidente - you both have good points. Both my husband and I discussed this, but we had both been married before.
As far as not knowing yourself yet when you're a virgin, it would be worth considering whether one or the other had been sexually molested (even just "fondled") as a child - that and other things will have large impacts on behavior inside a marriage as relates to the marriage bed.
I think @presidente is correct in that the topic itself, even among those who never had sex, shouldn't be taboo and may help make a better match.
As far as not knowing yourself yet when you're a virgin, it would be worth considering whether one or the other had been sexually molested (even just "fondled") as a child - that and other things will have large impacts on behavior inside a marriage as relates to the marriage bed.
I think @presidente is correct in that the topic itself, even among those who never had sex, shouldn't be taboo and may help make a better match.
Btw, there are probably single women out there somewhere looking for a husband. Posting here with your picture might actually help you find an interested woman. 
From a statistical perspective it kind of makes sense... a pool of Christians that might have some singles or widows. Of course, if you are praying for a godly woman, then it's a matter of God providing, rather than statistics.
From a statistical perspective it kind of makes sense... a pool of Christians that might have some singles or widows. Of course, if you are praying for a godly woman, then it's a matter of God providing, rather than statistics.