Exorcism

[ResidentAlien]

There are a few Catholic priests who claim to be exorcists. But those claims are generally not made by evangelicals. Unless one has personally seen what happens and what is the end result, it is best to reserve judgment.

Maybe best for you, not for me.

 

[Aaron56]

I have over 20 years experience in this area, although I never thought of it as "exorcism". It's one reason I left the Behavioral Health field: we spent more time inebriating the person with chemicals than we did addressing the spiritual issues.

These days I help believers in areas where they have ratified a deception or lie in their own lives. It's a process that edifies them in their own walk as they find liberty from traditions and mindsets that are incompatible with the Kingdom of God.

 

[Runningman]

A friend of mine was suffering from epilepsy somewhat controlled by medication, but it wasn’t perfect. I prayed for her and I had a dream where she was on an operating table in a small room surrounded by angels. They had all placed their hands on her and were praying/healing.

At the door was an angry little imp, but I was holding it closed with all of my strength while it was beating on door and almost overpowering me. I was told to trust God and she will not have anymore problems with that. Two years later there’s been no problems.

I guess that was an exorcism, though I didn’t do it. I believe I was shown what angels did, though I believe my prayer was instrumental.

 

[Blik]

they are real, and they are fake. You will know the difference because the holy Spirit will help one to discern

When it was realized that some people were even killed when they were accused of demon possession in error people decided to deny possession. The truth is that there is demon possession, but it requires training in psychology to correctly diagnose possession.

Evil was not studied much by psychology, now Dr/ Scott Peck lead in the study. But it is very difficult to find help, even today, if possession is suspected.

 

[CS1]

When it was realized that some people were even killed when they were accused of demon possession in error people decided to deny possession. The truth is that there is demon possession, but it requires training in psychology to correctly diagnose possession.

Evil was not studied much by psychology, now Dr/ Scott Peck lead in the study. But it is very difficult to find help, even today, if possession is suspected.

I disagree. today many "psychologists" provide mind-altering drugs to control a mental issue that doesn't help but makes it worst.
Demons don't listen to Psychologists they listen to the authority of the Lord Jesus Christ. there is no psychologist who has the ability to cast out a devil without Christ.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

While that view is interesting for sure, I dont see it that way for a few reasons, one being that the word nephilim only appears twice in the bible, and is translated as giants in the versions I read,

Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that

Num 13:33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.

It seems obvious that it is men refereed to here, as Caleb even saw them as physical beings of great stature, from this I even conclude that Goliath was a offspring and also a nephilim

I know this has become a popular view but I have trouble ascribing to it, there is just to many holes in the theory for me, The Line of Seth being faithful followers of God and becoming heirs(Sons) of Gods, is what makes the most sense to me.

I mean if angels are the reason for the flood we are basically blaming them for the sin that filled the earth, seems like we are trying to absolve mans role in Sin. And also if it was the women that willfully or un-willfully sleeping with angels why do we Men bare the brunt of the judgement of a flood?

Yet Gen 6:5 says it was because of mans wickedness not because of the angels wickedness

Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Also everything can only breed after its own kind, no matter how often you mate a dog with a sheep you are never going to get a hybrid sheep dog...

So to say a angel mating with a human will get a hybrid spirit being/demon seems far fetched on multiple scales.

Do you have a reference other than the one I gave before?

as you have stated Jesus did indeed cast them out but not directly into the abyss. Yet we have the account in Peter and Jude that concludes the fallen angels are now bound, interesting I presume you used the demoniac account in Mt 8 as reference to angels not being cast into Hell, as the swine ran into the deep sea(abyss) A word play that to me ironically confirms that demons are now in the abyss/pit but I suppose its a complicated parable, also in the sense of the 2 men, 2000 swine(yet the number of demons is unknown)and the inference to the gentiles.

Maybe Ill go over and explain in detail later.

Yet ive never seen one nor will I see one, considering I believe the bible says they are not out and about today thats not surprising really I suppose, but notice after a demon was cast out the man went and told the whole town, and the whole town was amazed at the mans exorcism and now normal state, What Im saying is demon possession was very real and everyone believed in them and saw them, both believers and unbelievers, the gospel accounts seem to show a very different picture to the very sneaky invisible demons of today.

I honestly believe when the pit/abyss is opened and the demons once again roam the earth tormenting men, people and I mean believers and non believers will go ah... Demons are real and this is what they actually do.

it would be wise to forget the Textus Recptus views you have learned and understand what the Hebrew factually claims.

The Hebrew word nefilim (/ˈnɛfɪˌlɪm/; Hebrew: נְפִילִים Nəfīlīm) is directly translated to mean “the fallen ones” or “those causing others to fall. (from the Hebrew naphal, “to fall”).

“the fallen ones” or “those causing others to fall. = Offspring of the Fallen Angels


Jude: 6 And the angels—who did not keep their own position of authority but deserted their proper place—He has kept in everlasting shackles under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great Day.
7 In the same way as these angels, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them—having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after a different sort of flesh—are displayed as an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire.

the Fallen Angels have been shackled in Darkness since Genesis 6. they cannot be Demons!

but in the Gospels, Jesus cast out Demons. these are the [[spirits]] of the Nephilim. they are NOT BOUND and neither did Jesus bind them, but cast them out.


the Textus Receptus has blinded YOU like it has many others!

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

The voices schizophrenics hear are not usually hallucinations. Sometimes they are demons and other times they are due to deficiencies in essential nutrients.
What they label Schizophrenia has remedies but psychiatrists are only interested in selling drugs.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

When dealing with these demons/ devils they are cast out the same way now as in Bible times. Here's a quick observation that I will leave you all with until later when I have time.

A. Although some denominations, and religions, have a special office/designated "Exorcist", there's no special Biblical position or gift given to focus primarily on possession. Ie. Sons of Sceva, Acts 19:13

B. Casting out of devils is something that all disciples can attempt, but should be walking closely with the Lord. It can be dangerous and they attempt to deceive, destroy the host person they indwell and often those believers attempting to interfere. In cases like the one I mentioned on page one, sometimes believers who pose a threat in spiritual warfare are targeted for destruction/death.
Hit squads are summoned to kill the believer after a period of other tactics meant to disarm their enemy. This became clear as the Holy Spirit provided insight from His Word and specific circumstances.

C. Casting out the spirits is not a game and should not be approached lightly. Some of these are worshipped by entire cultures. The Aztecs and other pagans murdered people by the millions and controlled those cultures to make it socially desirable. That continues throughout time, even to this modern current time in history. The past century there were more murders motivated by these damned beings than any other time ever recorded.

They are controlling billionaires, politicians, corporate mogals, military generals, and teams of think tanks far smarter than us.

Because of the risks associated with devil's, I don't recommend that anyone get involved directly casting those out unless they are ready and have other believers ready to help. However, any believer can fast and pray. That said, the times that I have investigated those encounters, it wasn't always a planned or expected situation.
They were sometimes akin to a street mugging, where you were going along minding your own business. Out of nowhere you get attacked by a violent criminal armed and intending to kill you for what he wants. Devil's are much the same. Although the human might be tempted to steal valuables, the parasitic entity within often uses that to push them into murder. That's what they want. They want to take effectual warriors off of the battle field. However, Jesus The LORD of hosts/armies has told all of His soldiers......

"In the world, ye shall have tribulation:. but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world."
John 16:33

And the Holy Spirit spoke to me on one day when a powerful demon(s) tried to take my life....

"Greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world."

 

[Pilgrimshope]

When dealing with these demons/ devils they are cast out the same way now as in Bible times. Here's a quick observation that I will leave you all with until later when I have time.

A. Although some denominations, and religions, have a special office/designated "Exorcist", there's no special Biblical position or gift given to focus primarily on possession. Ie. Sons of Sceva, Acts 19:13

B. Casting out of devils is something that all disciples can attempt, but should be walking closely with the Lord. It can be dangerous and they attempt to deceive, destroy the host person they indwell and often those believers attempting to interfere. In cases like the one I mentioned on page one, sometimes believers who pose a threat in spiritual warfare are targeted for destruction/death.
Hit squads are summoned to kill the believer after a period of other tactics meant to disarm their enemy. This became clear as the Holy Spirit provided insight from His Word and specific circumstances.

C. Casting out the spirits is not a game and should not be approached lightly. Some of these are worshipped by entire cultures. The Aztecs and other pagans murdered people by the millions and controlled those cultures to make it socially desirable. That continues throughout time, even to this modern current time in history. The past century there were more murders motivated by these damned beings than any other time ever recorded.

They are controlling billionaires, politicians, corporate mogals, military generals, and teams of think tanks far smarter than us.

Because of the risks associated with devil's, I don't recommend that anyone get involved directly casting those out unless they are ready and have other believers ready to help. However, any believer can fast and pray. That said, the times that I have investigated those encounters, it wasn't always a planned or expected situation.
They were sometimes akin to a street mugging, where you were going along minding your own business. Out of nowhere you get attacked by a violent criminal armed and intending to kill you for what he wants. Devil's are much the same. Although the human might be tempted to steal valuables, the parasitic entity within often uses that to push them into murder. That's what they want. They want to take effectual warriors off of the battle field. However, Jesus The LORD of hosts/armies has told all of His soldiers......

"In the world, ye shall have tribulation:. but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world."
John 16:33

And the Holy Spirit spoke to me on one day when a powerful demon(s) tried to take my life....

"Greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world."

AMen a good read there

“Greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world."


“And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.

Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:9, 12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

just wanted to offer some scripture there showing us who’s in the world that we have been given authority to overcome and then we have the battle plans

“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭5:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; and your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭6:10-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the New Testament really is all about preparing us to overcome the spiritual evil of Satan and his servants in this world and making a way for us to leave this world and enter the eternal kingdom afterwards after our estate in this world depending on whether we serve the evil or accept the lord

we really are being tried by fire in this life

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Pilgrim,

Those are powerful verses on spiritual warfare we should all take seriously. 👍
This thread reminded me of the FMs that are required reading for each military branch.
Earlier I decided to put a margin note in my Bible at I John chapter 4 and Ephesians 6:10....
"Field Manuals for Spiritual Warfare"

 

[Clayman]

it would be wise to forget the Textus Recptus views you have learned and understand what the Hebrew factually claims.

The Hebrew word nefilim (/ˈnɛfɪˌlɪm/; Hebrew: נְפִילִים Nəfīlīm) is directly translated to mean “the fallen ones” or “those causing others to fall. (from the Hebrew naphal, “to fall”).

“the fallen ones” or “those causing others to fall. = Offspring of the Fallen Angels


Jude: 6 And the angels—who did not keep their own position of authority but deserted their proper place—He has kept in everlasting shackles under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great Day.
7 In the same way as these angels, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them—having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after a different sort of flesh—are displayed as an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire.

the Fallen Angels have been shackled in Darkness since Genesis 6. they cannot be Demons!

but in the Gospels, Jesus cast out Demons. these are the [[spirits]] of the Nephilim. they are NOT BOUND and neither did Jesus bind them, but cast them out.


the Textus Receptus has blinded YOU like it has many others!

Im no Hebrew linguist for sure, and when I look in the account in numbers where the spys saw the nephilim as men of LARGE stature, even if the translation literally should not be Giants, for I agree the meaning does appear to be those who fall or fell others, yet I can also understand why the translators did use the word Giants.

If you or anyone translated the verse as demons it would be be a bigger and more obvious mistake to make for example.

Gen 6:4 There were demons on the earth in those days and also afterwards, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them, Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

Notice the obvious contradiction, the bible calls them men, there is no way I can see the word meaning what you think it says.

Also the context seems to accommodate the fact they were already on the earth before the union took place.

I dont even need to bother with the numbers account but remember the bad report the spies gave refering to the Caananites "these people are too strong" etc etc

Anyway as I said, animals and men are made to go forth and multiply we have babies and a complex reproductive system, and God created things to bring forth after its own kind.

Angels do not reproduce, there are no baby angels and angel families in heaven, they have no need of angel sperm or a uterus, when they were created all were created without the intention of reproduction or the ability to pass on their DNA.

I cant seriously see how people think angels mated with all the woman, were the men all away on a hunting trip?
Were the women willing recipients?

Anyway I notice you didnt see my question in the previous post so ill ask it again, who in your opinion comes out of the pit in rev 9?

Ive already explained how I think its the demons who I think are also the angels who sinned as in the accounts of the gospels. As they were cast out into the pit till the day of judgment when God pours out His judgment in the coming day of wrath in the 7 years of tribulation.

According to 2Pet 2:4

2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment.

Also as you can tell I take this verse literally, yet I wonder if a lot of people do not even see what its saying?

For example is Satan an angel who sinned? If you agree he is then according to this 2Pet 2:4 then Satan is also bound until this day.

Does the bible support 2pet 2:4 else where, of course it does the bible is harmonious.

We know Satan was in the gospel accounts, so the binding of these angels must have been at that time not at or in Gen 6.

The strong man who is Satan was bound by the stronger man who is Christ.

Then when the demons are released their king is also released with them

Rev 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

Which is else where explained like in Rev 13 another synonymous account, Rev 13:11 Then I saw another beast coming out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon.

Any way ill ask again who in your opinion comes out of the pit in rev 9? I think you may see them as the angels from genesis 6 but im not sure, Im genuinely curious like when did the 1/3 angels fall in you view, Im just wondering if you relate this to Gen 6 and Im trying to understand your overall view...

 

[Clayman]

AMen a good read there

“Greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world."


“And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.

Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:9, 12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

just wanted to offer some scripture there showing us who’s in the world that we have been given authority to overcome and then we have the battle plans

“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭5:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; and your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭6:10-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the New Testament really is all about preparing us to overcome the spiritual evil of Satan and his servants in this world and making a way for us to leave this world and enter the eternal kingdom afterwards after our estate in this world depending on whether we serve the evil or accept the lord

we really are being tried by fire in this life

Hi Pilgrimshope I love your name

Thanks for all these verses, I cant but help reading through all the posts though that people seem to explain all the evil in the world as some evil supernatural influence and blame all our troubles upon this outside influence, and they interpret the verses that could be interpreted differently this way to reinforce their view.

I admit I approach these verses with the view that we men are sinful beings, and our sin leads to pride, envy, lust, murder, etc etc

I see humans as made up of body soul and spirit and see us as not just as physical bodies but also spiritual beings.

Ill be frank I dont see Satan in the world today and when you show us who is in the world today we both think different things.

just wanted to offer some scripture there showing us who’s in the world that we have been given authority to overcome and then we have the battle plans

When I read 1 John 4:4 I believe its talking about the spirit of antichrist, when people people sin and do not repent they end up trying to justify themselves and their sin, which snowballs more and more till it becomes a huge sin.

Then the continual denial of sin, leads to a denial of God and they either consciously or subconsciously become antichrist in their own spirit.

1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1Jn 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

Anyway I think the spirit in us and is greater than the spirit that is in the world is referring to the spirit of antichrist, in 1Jn 4:4 for example is speaking of false prophets those who claim to be of God yet are leading many to follow them down the broad road of destruction, look at some of the mega churches and so forth.

Anyway thats how I see it, and I see the problems in the world and world leaders to be simply the result of sin and not demonic,
And fear by blaming other entities it removes our abilty to see our own sin and the need for repentance.

 

[Blik]

I disagree. today many "psychologists" provide mind-altering drugs to control a mental issue that doesn't help but makes it worst.
Demons don't listen to Psychologists they listen to the authority of the Lord Jesus Christ. there is no psychologist who has the ability to cast out a devil without Christ.

This thread is not about drugs given by doctors of psychology, it is about demon possession. Scripture tells us it is a problem that gets worse as our earth ages.

Each of us needs to know about how demons act wen they are in a person, and how to protect ourselves from them. Scripture tells us, but there are several books by people who have worked with demon possession. it is good armor to have to learn from them. For example, man has to accept a sin as OK for them or demons have no way to enter. Ephesians 6 :10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Hi Pilgrimshope I love your name

Thanks for all these verses, I cant but help reading through all the posts though that people seem to explain all the evil in the world as some evil supernatural influence and blame all our troubles upon this outside influence, and they interpret the verses that could be interpreted differently this way to reinforce their view.

I admit I approach these verses with the view that we men are sinful beings, and our sin leads to pride, envy, lust, murder, etc etc

I see humans as made up of body soul and spirit and see us as not just as physical bodies but also spiritual beings.

Ill be frank I dont see Satan in the world today and when you show us who is in the world today we both think different things.



When I read 1 John 4:4 I believe its talking about the spirit of antichrist, when people people sin and do not repent they end up trying to justify themselves and their sin, which snowballs more and more till it becomes a huge sin.

Then the continual denial of sin, leads to a denial of God and they either consciously or subconsciously become antichrist in their own spirit.

1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1Jn 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

Anyway I think the spirit in us and is greater than the spirit that is in the world is referring to the spirit of antichrist, in 1Jn 4:4 for example is speaking of false prophets those who claim to be of God yet are leading many to follow them down the broad road of destruction, look at some of the mega churches and so forth.

Anyway thats how I see it, and I see the problems in the world and world leaders to be simply the result of sin and not demonic,
And fear by blaming other entities it removes our abilty to see our own sin and the need for repentance.

yes this seems to be born out of not believing what’s written though

“Thanks for all these verses, I cant but help reading through all the posts though that people seem to explain all the evil in the world as some evil supernatural influence and blame all our troubles upon this outside influence, and they interpret the verses that could be interpreted differently this way to reinforce their view.”

a Christian isn’t meant to have thier own independent “ views and opinions” of God were simply meant to hear the word and believe and let that be our view

do you see this part

“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭5:8-9‬ ‭

the point I was making is the Bible isn’t making excuses for us it is informing us of the truth of the spiritual things we can’t see and don’t understand

see above there until we come to this truth , we will never take up our armor and begin to fight the fight not because we’re lazy or don’t care but it’s simply because we aren’t accepting the truths the Bible is meant to make known to a believer

that’s why we need the Bible we’re supposed to learn from it out the truth of God and ourselves

there’s a spiritual war happening on earth it has been since this day

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That day when Jesus was taken from earth into heaven , this occurred

“And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. ….

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:5, 7-10, 12, 17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m not at all making any excuses what I’m saying is the Bible tells us of a spiritual war happening in this world there is much evil here and it is constantly trying to control and deceive and corrupt people to get them to deny Gods Will and accept satans Will

but the gospel is what gives us the power to overcome in this war against spiritual wickedness we have to accept the gospel that is what informs us of what’s happening in THe unseen realms my only point is that we are in a spiritual war Satan can’t force us to do anything but he’s always trying to influence us it’s our place to get th the plan of defense and attack the gospel prepares us to overcome but only not if we reject what it’s teaching us

things like this are revelations of immense value to a Christian believer

“Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; and your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭6:11-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬


in scripture like this a believer sees a valuable battle plan meant to keep us safe , but others find no value or any sense in sections of scripture like this they see it as irrelevant

until we acknolwedge this battle happening for our everlasting soul and accept our part in it we can’t even know it’s happening is my point of we come to acknolwedge those things the Bible’s explaining we’re going to understand those things d begin applying them to life which leads to freedom and victory over the evil spiritual powers in this world seeking to devour our soul and keep us from the inheritance Jesus Christ has offered believers

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Im no Hebrew linguist for sure, and when I look in the account in numbers where the spys saw the nephilim as men of LARGE stature, even if the translation literally should not be Giants, for I agree the meaning does appear to be those who fall or fell others, yet I can also understand why the translators did use the word Giants.

If you or anyone translated the verse as demons it would be be a bigger and more obvious mistake to make for example.

Gen 6:4 There were demons on the earth in those days and also afterwards, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them, Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

Notice the obvious contradiction, the bible calls them men, there is no way I can see the word meaning what you think it says.

Also the context seems to accommodate the fact they were already on the earth before the union took place.

I dont even need to bother with the numbers account but remember the bad report the spies gave refering to the Caananites "these people are too strong" etc etc

Anyway as I said, animals and men are made to go forth and multiply we have babies and a complex reproductive system, and God created things to bring forth after its own kind.

Angels do not reproduce, there are no baby angels and angel families in heaven, they have no need of angel sperm or a uterus, when they were created all were created without the intention of reproduction or the ability to pass on their DNA.

I cant seriously see how people think angels mated with all the woman, were the men all away on a hunting trip?
Were the women willing recipients?

Anyway I notice you didnt see my question in the previous post so ill ask it again, who in your opinion comes out of the pit in rev 9?

Ive already explained how I think its the demons who I think are also the angels who sinned as in the accounts of the gospels. As they were cast out into the pit till the day of judgment when God pours out His judgment in the coming day of wrath in the 7 years of tribulation.

According to 2Pet 2:4

2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment.

Also as you can tell I take this verse literally, yet I wonder if a lot of people do not even see what its saying?

For example is Satan an angel who sinned? If you agree he is then according to this 2Pet 2:4 then Satan is also bound until this day.

Does the bible support 2pet 2:4 else where, of course it does the bible is harmonious.

We know Satan was in the gospel accounts, so the binding of these angels must have been at that time not at or in Gen 6.

The strong man who is Satan was bound by the stronger man who is Christ.

Then when the demons are released their king is also released with them

Rev 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

Which is else where explained like in Rev 13 another synonymous account, Rev 13:11 Then I saw another beast coming out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon.

Any way ill ask again who in your opinion comes out of the pit in rev 9? I think you may see them as the angels from genesis 6 but im not sure, Im genuinely curious like when did the 1/3 angels fall in you view, Im just wondering if you relate this to Gen 6 and Im trying to understand your overall view...

yes, the offspring of the Fallen Angels were Giants. that's the importance of David and Goliath, David [Believer of God] versus Goliath [offspring of fallen Angels becoming Demons after death].

here's what is more important than anything else. not caring what a modern day scholar believes but what did the Ancient Jews believe. they would have known this "directly" from God through the Prophets.

 

[Clayman]

yes this seems to be born out of not believing what’s written though a Christian isn’t meant to have thier own independent “ views and opinions” of God were simply meant to hear the word and believe and let that be our view

Totally agree, we should read scripture and let scripture influence us and it should form our views and we all we need to change how we think and what we think as our understanding of Gods word should be increasing as we mature on to the meat of the Word.

do you see this part

“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭5:8-9‬ ‭

What I do when I have two views presented to me in scripture that appear to be contradictory is to apply this rule, for one will have a literal understanding and one a metaphoric so they will line up and compliment each other, the rule is if it appears to be literal in sense apply a literal understanding and if it appears metaphoric in sense apply a metaphoric understanding, anyway the verse you quoted is an obvious metaphor I dont even have to present the literal verse, but I will anyway.

John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.

It cant appear any more straight forward than that, and as you said we have to let scripture form our views not press our views into scripture. And its not surprising at all God communicates to us in this way and there are hundreds of examples of where we do this in our communication with each other, however God is the creator of relationships and communication and he talks to us in the same way or I could say that’s where we get this ability from.

Hos 12:10 I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.
The lord has spoken the word through the prophets, and uses similitudes which means compared things to, or likened things to.
Yes he uses metaphors, similes, symbols, types, parables, allegories, antitypes, emblems etc

Take baptism it’s a literal dunking in water, and the similtude of being saved is in this act, yet most of professing Christendom, ignore the picture or all the counsel of the bible and apply the literal water baptism as necessary for salvation.
Take the I am the bread of heaven, whoever eats of My flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, most of professing Christendom takes this is literal (I know its absurd) and performs rites to turn the bread into flesh and blood of Christ (yes cannibalism)


If 1 Pet 5:8 is Literal then it becomes an absurdity, Yes absurd which means wildly unreasonable, illogical, or inappropriate. synonyms: preposterous, ridiculous, ludicrous, farcical, laughable, if I apply a literal translation then in my head I have Satan as an actual Lion sneaking around in the Savannah, waiting for a person to come along and actually literally devouring or eating them.

Yet we apply a spiritual application to this verse, and make Satan like sin (since he is an example of sin) so when we lust or desire after worldly affections sin can indeed devour us. Peter would be absolutely horrified at a literal interpretation of this, as the Lord would be horrified of a literal translation of being eaten.

Yet, at the end of the day I wonder if its to let us know who has spiritual maturity, and who takes the whole counsel of God into consideration and who rests upon their own understanding?

The other way to prove my point is I could give an actual real life example of someone Satan has devoured and you could give me an actual real life example, and we will probably see that we see it the same way, we will be talking about someone who has given into temptation/sin. Not Actually Satan and we both actually will see 1Pet 5:8 as a metaphor with good practical application.

the point I was making is the Bible isn’t making excuses for us it is informing us of the truth of the spiritual things we can’t see and don’t understand

see above there until we come to this truth , we will never take up our armor and begin to fight the fight not because we’re lazy or don’t care but it’s simply because we aren’t accepting the truths the Bible is meant to make known to a believer

that’s why we need the Bible we’re supposed to learn from it out the truth of God and ourselves

there’s a spiritual war happening on earth it has been since this day

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That day when Jesus was taken from earth into heaven , this occurred

“And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. ….

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:5, 7-10, 12, 17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Thanks an interesting take, I guess I see that the war occured a couple of decades earlier, just because in rev 12:2 Then being in child she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth, then the dragon appeared in heaven, then His tail cast a third of the stars to earth and the dragon stood before the woman about to give birth.

To me when the war in heaven happened the Lord was not there, thats why it was Michael and his angels who fought.

I’m not at all making any excuses what I’m saying is the Bible tells us of a spiritual war happening in this world there is much evil here and it is constantly trying to control and deceive and corrupt people to get them to deny Gods Will and accept satans Will

but the gospel is what gives us the power to overcome in this war against spiritual wickedness we have to accept the gospel that is what informs us of what’s happening in THe unseen realms my only point is that we are in a spiritual war Satan can’t force us to do anything but he’s always trying to influence us it’s our place to get th the plan of defense and attack the gospel prepares us to overcome but only not if we reject what it’s teaching us

things like this are revelations of immense value to a Christian believer

“Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; and your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭6:11-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬


in scripture like this a believer sees a valuable battle plan meant to keep us safe , but others find no value or any sense in sections of scripture like this they see it as irrelevant

until we acknolwedge this battle happening for our everlasting soul and accept our part in it we can’t even know it’s happening is my point of we come to acknolwedge those things the Bible’s explaining we’re going to understand those things d begin applying them to life which leads to freedom and victory over the evil spiritual powers in this world seeking to devour our soul and keep us from the inheritance Jesus Christ has offered believers

Fair enough I understand your stance. Well at least from the point of view I view myself in the same spiritual battlefield, just because I dont see the enemy as demons, does not mean I dont think the world is not in a spiritual battle for the very souls of men, we have the world and its trappings of money and greed, power and world dominion, its not a flesh and blood battle, its new age theologies, its political propaganda to make it alright to kill babies, I have to put on the full armor of God, I have to gird my waist with truth, put on the helmet of salvation, weild the sword and the shield etc, its madness out there bro, And people are choosing the world over God, we have to make them see the truth, Yet the fiery darts of the wicked one like evolution are taking their toll

 

[Clayman]

yes, the offspring of the Fallen Angels were Giants. that's the importance of David and Goliath, David [Believer of God] versus Goliath [offspring of fallen Angels becoming Demons after death].

Sorry im not the sharpest tool in the shed, are you saying that Goliath was a man/Giant the offspring of an angel/human, and after he died he became a demon, this may be not what your saying I just want clarification, as i said im not the sharpest tool in the shed...

Any chance you might say who you believe comes out of the pit in Rev 9?

here's what is more important than anything else. not caring what a modern day scholar believes but what did the Ancient Jews believe. they would have known this "directly" from God through the Prophets.

Makes sense, cept I would add not taking too much stock into what ancient Jews believed as well, what i mean is that Peter an apostle needed corrected by Paul, Peters writings as inspired by God, and are Gods Words but the prophets had their mistaken opinions and made mistakes as well, I wont name too many names God did not hide the fact from us, probably so we didnt put fallible humans on a pedestal let alone any others.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Sorry im not the sharpest tool in the shed, are you saying that Goliath was a man/Giant the offspring of an angel/human, and after he died he became a demon, this may be not what your saying I just want clarification, as i said im not the sharpest tool in the shed...

Giants in the Land: A Biblical Theology of the Nephilim ...
https://knowingscripture.com › articles › giants-in-the-l...
Jul 2, 2019 — Goliath's connection to the Nephilim is strengthened by his description as a gibbor, a “mighty” one (1 Samuel 17:51; cf. Genesis 6:4).

Any chance you might say who you believe comes out of the pit in Rev 9?

3 Then from the smoke came locusts upon the earth

in the Word of God, Locust represents PLAGUE! this is part of the Wrath against those who took the Mark of the Beast!

What Do Locusts Symbolize in the Bible? - Crosswalk.com
https://www.crosswalk.com › Faith › Bible Study
Apr 14, 2022 — God used the 10 plagues—blood, frogs, gnats/lice, flies, livestock pestilence, boils, hail, locusts, darkness, and death of the firstborn—to

Makes sense, cept I would add not taking too much stock into what ancient Jews believed as well, what i mean is that Peter an apostle needed corrected by Paul, Peters writings as inspired by God, and are Gods Words but the prophets had their mistaken opinions and made mistakes as well, I wont name too many names God did not hide the fact from us, probably so we didnt put fallible humans on a pedestal let alone any others.

a few mistakes has nothing to do with God revealing the spirits of the Nephilim are Demons!

and who said the Prophets made mistakes and Paul corrected Peter because he ate with Gentiles but in front of Jews was 2-faced?

 

[studentoftheword]

I say ---this priest in this video below explains the 2 categories of demonic activity ---which are ordinary or extraordinary ----he explains the 4 types of extraordinary demonic activity ----Infiltration ---vexation---obsession and possession ---He says that casting out evil and inviting Christ in go hand and hand -------he also explains the protocol for determination of demonic activity -----

Here is the thing Folks ---we can say we don't believe in demonic activity or Satan himself but that does not mean that it doesn't exist -----Satan wants people to believe that he and his tribe of demons don't exist -------this is his greatest hope ---so he can deceive people and there are many who have taken his bait ----and who do disbelieve in demons and demonic activity -----Satan has the ability to parade as an angel of light -----


Video is informative --if you DARE to LISTEN -----

Fr. Vincent Lampert, exorcist for the Archdiocese of Indianapolis, gives an overview of the ministry of exorcism and the power Christ holds over the demonic world.

 

[studentoftheword]

The Exorcist the movie was based on a true happening to a boy -not a girl -----

The Movie----- the Exorcism of Emily Rose was based on a true Story and the Priest was charged with her death ---

http://www.chasingthefrog.com/reelfaces/emilyrose.php

Was The Exorcism of Emily Rose a true story?
Though many may not know it, the horrifying events of the 2005 film The Exorcism of Emily Rose were not entirely fictional but rather were based on the actual experiences of a German girl named Anneliese Michel

How many people were found guilty in Anneliese Michel's death?

Anneliese's parents and the exorcists were found guilty of negligence.
In the 2005 film, The Exorcism of Emily Rose, only one of the characters, Father Richard Moore (Tom Wilkinson), was found guilty of negligent homicide surrounding the death of Emily Rose. In the real-life case of Anneliese Michel (pictured left), which took place in 1978, there were four defendants, not just one. They were Father Arnold Renz, Pastor Ernst Alt, and Anneliese Michel's parents, Josef and Anna. All four were found guilty of negligent homicide and sentenced to six months in prison, suspended with three years' probation. -washingtonpost.com



The Movie ---The Rite was based on the true story as well ----

'The Rite' is based on a real priest trained in exorcism
https://www.latimes.com › entertainment › la-xpm-201...

Jan 27, 2011 — O'Donoghue plays Michael Kovak, a skeptical seminarian sent to Rome to become an exorcist who ends up hooking up with an eccentric Welsh priest,

I say ------We have free choice to Believe or Disbelieve ------

Also you can ---Look up Ed and Loraine Warren ---they were involved with the true story of the conjuring -----they are demonologists who are still doing their work today ------


https://allthatsinteresting.com/true-story-of-the-conjuring-perron-family-enfield-haunting


The True Story Of The Conjuring: The Perron Family And Enfield Haunting

, this is the oldest known photo of the Perron family house, taken many years before the family moved in.