Exorcism

[studentoftheword]

Rare, Unedited Recordings of the 67 Exorcisms of Anneliese Michel, the Real Emily Rose

Anneliese Michel, the real-life Emily Rose, underwent 67 exorcisms that eventually killed her,

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Rare, Unedited Recordings of the 67 Exorcisms of Anneliese Michel, the Real Emily Rose

Anneliese Michel, the real-life Emily Rose, underwent 67 exorcisms that eventually killed her,

i flipped through this recording and mostly was listening to the Catholic Priests. they really have no backing of Yeshua and the Holy Spirit. they say one Ritual after another and basically the Demons are laughing at them. they deserve their judgement of Murder because they never were a force to be used by God and only helped to KILL this poor girl.

on a second thought: isn't it ODD it's always Catholic people getting POSSESSED by Legions of Demons? if you're in a System where people are getting POSSESSED, why bring leaders of that System to cast them out?

just a shame!

i don't know why i am wondering this [it just popped into my thoughts], but the 2 Priests charged with Murder, wonder what SECRET lifestyle they were living besides being Catholic, which is Demonic and powerless towards Evil to begin with? they could be child molesters/homosexuals...not even sure why i thought this.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Totally agree, we should read scripture and let scripture influence us and it should form our views and we all we need to change how we think and what we think as our understanding of Gods word should be increasing as we mature on to the meat of the Word.



What I do when I have two views presented to me in scripture that appear to be contradictory is to apply this rule, for one will have a literal understanding and one a metaphoric so they will line up and compliment each other, the rule is if it appears to be literal in sense apply a literal understanding and if it appears metaphoric in sense apply a metaphoric understanding, anyway the verse you quoted is an obvious metaphor I dont even have to present the literal verse, but I will anyway.

John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.

It cant appear any more straight forward than that, and as you said we have to let scripture form our views not press our views into scripture. And its not surprising at all God communicates to us in this way and there are hundreds of examples of where we do this in our communication with each other, however God is the creator of relationships and communication and he talks to us in the same way or I could say that’s where we get this ability from.

Hos 12:10 I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.
The lord has spoken the word through the prophets, and uses similitudes which means compared things to, or likened things to.
Yes he uses metaphors, similes, symbols, types, parables, allegories, antitypes, emblems etc

Take baptism it’s a literal dunking in water, and the similtude of being saved is in this act, yet most of professing Christendom, ignore the picture or all the counsel of the bible and apply the literal water baptism as necessary for salvation.
Take the I am the bread of heaven, whoever eats of My flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, most of professing Christendom takes this is literal (I know its absurd) and performs rites to turn the bread into flesh and blood of Christ (yes cannibalism)


If 1 Pet 5:8 is Literal then it becomes an absurdity, Yes absurd which means wildly unreasonable, illogical, or inappropriate. synonyms: preposterous, ridiculous, ludicrous, farcical, laughable, if I apply a literal translation then in my head I have Satan as an actual Lion sneaking around in the Savannah, waiting for a person to come along and actually literally devouring or eating them.

Yet we apply a spiritual application to this verse, and make Satan like sin (since he is an example of sin) so when we lust or desire after worldly affections sin can indeed devour us. Peter would be absolutely horrified at a literal interpretation of this, as the Lord would be horrified of a literal translation of being eaten.

Yet, at the end of the day I wonder if its to let us know who has spiritual maturity, and who takes the whole counsel of God into consideration and who rests upon their own understanding?

The other way to prove my point is I could give an actual real life example of someone Satan has devoured and you could give me an actual real life example, and we will probably see that we see it the same way, we will be talking about someone who has given into temptation/sin. Not Actually Satan and we both actually will see 1Pet 5:8 as a metaphor with good practical application.




Thanks an interesting take, I guess I see that the war occured a couple of decades earlier, just because in rev 12:2 Then being in child she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth, then the dragon appeared in heaven, then His tail cast a third of the stars to earth and the dragon stood before the woman about to give birth.

To me when the war in heaven happened the Lord was not there, thats why it was Michael and his angels who fought.




Fair enough I understand your stance. Well at least from the point of view I view myself in the same spiritual battlefield, just because I dont see the enemy as demons, does not mean I dont think the world is not in a spiritual battle for the very souls of men, we have the world and its trappings of money and greed, power and world dominion, its not a flesh and blood battle, its new age theologies, its political propaganda to make it alright to kill babies, I have to put on the full armor of God, I have to gird my waist with truth, put on the helmet of salvation, weild the sword and the shield etc, its madness out there bro, And people are choosing the world over God, we have to make them see the truth, Yet the fiery darts of the wicked one like evolution are taking their toll

yeah I don’t really look at it like you are it honestly seems to me like your reading scripture and then reasoning it away by saying it doesn’t really mean what it says it’s somehow all figurative

see what your saying here ?

“just because I dont see the enemy as demons, does not mean I dont think the world is not in a spiritual battle for the very souls of men”

see this this is identifying your adversary

“Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you. Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭5:6-9‬

there’s no figure no hidden meankng needed to be interpreted , but it’s just that you don’t see it that way the way to scripture is presenting it to you again this isn’t a figure

“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭6:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s truth telling you your enemy isn’t flesh and blood your enemies are spiritually wicked beings

that’s why when we start hearing the plan it sounds like this

“For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (for the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds

casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭10:3-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I honestly think your missing that even from Adam and Eve , Satan was influencing them to disbelieve Gods word , and break the commandment

if you look on genesis two you see Gods commandment “ don’t eat the fruit you will surely die “

then you have Satan come behind him and say “ that’s not true the fruit is good for you will make you wise “

so even from eve God forst blames the serpent , then blames eve , then lays the consequences of death upon Adam who was given dominion

Consider why hell is made brother

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:41‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Why ? Because the spiritual Rebellion In Heaven is now on earth corrupting and seeking to corrupt would be Christian’s and keep them away from salvation

I think we see it quite differently but do appreciate the conversation brother and kind spirit

if you let the new testsment be true and can not reason why it’s not really true or doesn’t really Mean what it says I think you would come to a stark realization that Satan and his fallen angels are always trying to deceive people , they can’t force anyone but if we invite them into our lives through sin and wockedness they can reek havoc on a life and they can steal a persons soul

to not accept that this is happening only disarms us and makes us an easy target because of we don’t know we even have an enemy trying to destroy us , how would we ever take anything in scriotire seriously ?

if we aren’t careful we end up rejecting everything by reasoning why it’s all nonsense or why it needs some drastic interpretation in the end we’re just not able to accept that’s there were limited to a natural view d need to intellectually figure it out but that’s not the way

the New Testament should be what shapes our understanding of God , the world , and ourselves

our enemies are clear but much of what man understand about those enemies is far off I do agree with you there prayer is a spiritual weapon , resisting temptation is a spiritual weapon , obeying the lords word is a spiritual weapon , faith is a shield the word a sword

we do these things because we have enemies in this world that are spiritual and are influencers of the minds and hearts of people it’s just about accepting the new testaments revelations we can’t know then until we accept what’s there and refrain from interpreting it independently and intellectually faith is when we start hearing and believing the word of Christ

very little in the new testsment doesn’t just mean what it says it’s God speaking plainly rather than in figures like the law and prophets the gospel is the reality of all those veiled shadows

 

[Blik]

Rare, Unedited Recordings of the 67 Exorcisms of Anneliese Michel, the Real Emily Rose

Anneliese Michel, the real-life Emily Rose, underwent 67 exorcisms that eventually killed her,

We need to know about demon possession, we need to understand the work of the exorcist, but looking to the entertainment industry is not the place to go for these truths.

 

[studentoftheword]

I agree that movies do add much for entertainment purposes -----the story behind the movie is true ---and with a little research on the truth of the story will give one a better view of the actual happenings --
The take away is---- that Possession and supernatural experiences do happen today ----and I personally can say that is true cause I experienced supernatural happenings in my home at one time and had an exorcism done through my home which stopped all happenings ------so I BELIEVE

So unless one has experienced such happenings there will be those who are skeptical -----

An example of checking the truth of the story in The Rite -------there is a scene in the Movie where the woman is spitting up Nails ----so pretty hard to believe that ------

This is what this article says about the nails -----this article gives an overhaul account of what may or not be true in the movie The Rite -----Read all for yourselves ------

https://www.chasingthefrog.com/reelfaces/therite.php

Questioning the Story:

Did a woman really spit up nails during an exorcism?
Yes, but the true story behind The Rite reveals that it was not witnessed by Father Gary Thomas himself. According to the book, The Rite: The Making of a Modern Exorcist by Matt Baglio, the incident was told to Father Thomas by a Franciscan priest who was present when a woman vomited seven black nails, one of which he kept after the rest liquefied before his eyes. Fr. Carmine De Filippis, who was the basis for Anthony Hopkin's character Father Lucas Trevant, has not seen this manifestation either. However, the Vatican’s chief exorcist who trained him,

Father Gabriele Amorth (pictured at right), has. He has more than 70,000 exorcisms to his name and says that he has seen nails and other objects, including shards of glass and radio equipment parts, vomited by possessed persons. - The Independent

I say ----So according to this it is possible -----so unless you are there as a witness to view these things --you may either believe or disbelieve what this Priest is saying ----that is our choice -----but what advantage would the Priest gain by lying about these things that he says he has seen --------

 

[Blik]

I agree that movies do add much for entertainment purposes -----the story behind the movie is true ---and with a little research on the truth of the story will give one a better view of the actual happenings --
The take away is---- that Possession and supernatural experiences do happen today ----and I personally can say that is true cause I experienced supernatural happenings in my home at one time and had an exorcism done through my home which stopped all happenings ------so I BELIEVE

So unless one has experienced such happenings there will be those who are skeptical -----

An example of checking the truth of the story in The Rite -------there is a scene in the Movie where the woman is spitting up Nails ----so pretty hard to believe that ------

This is what this article says about the nails -----this article gives an overhaul account of what may or not be true in the movie The Rite -----Read all for yourselves ------

https://www.chasingthefrog.com/reelfaces/therite.php

Questioning the Story:

Did a woman really spit up nails during an exorcism?
Yes, but the true story behind The Rite reveals that it was not witnessed by Father Gary Thomas himself. According to the book, The Rite: The Making of a Modern Exorcist by Matt Baglio, the incident was told to Father Thomas by a Franciscan priest who was present when a woman vomited seven black nails, one of which he kept after the rest liquefied before his eyes. Fr. Carmine De Filippis, who was the basis for Anthony Hopkin's character Father Lucas Trevant, has not seen this manifestation either. However, the Vatican’s chief exorcist who trained him,

Father Gabriele Amorth (pictured at right), has. He has more than 70,000 exorcisms to his name and says that he has seen nails and other objects, including shards of glass and radio equipment parts, vomited by possessed persons. - The Independent

I say ----So according to this it is possible -----so unless you are there as a witness to view these things --you may either believe or disbelieve what this Priest is saying ----that is our choice -----but what advantage would the Priest gain by lying about these things that he says he has seen --------

It takes only a little effort to find the truth of demon possession. Scripture tells us it is worse in the last days. If this time isn't the last days, at least the world is getting older.

We really need to learn the truth about this, and that truth should be in scripture and from the most truthful people who work with this problem. Movies may start with facts, but they are not a good source of truth. There are doctors and priests who are good sources of truthful information.

Demons are drawn to our churches, it is where the God they oppose is. They are our enemy. We need to know the truth about how to protect ourselves and our church.

 

[Clayman]

yeah I don’t really look at it like you are it honestly seems to me like your reading scripture and then reasoning it away by saying it doesn’t really mean what it says it’s somehow all figurative

It cuts both ways, I see you as doing the same with scripture with verses like John 12:31 and then the figurative verses you see them as literal for example some people think when a person is excommunicated he is literally handed over to Satan, and some think hes put out into the world, which is Satans domain, So they can see that Satan is figurative of the world. Im in the second camp.

see this this is identifying your adversary

“Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you. Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭5:6-9‬

there’s no figure no hidden meankng needed to be interpreted , but it’s just that you don’t see it that way the way to scripture is presenting it to you again this isn’t a figure

For me its like when John said "behold the lamb of God" I know this is figurative language, and if someone told me it wasnt I would find it absurd, John was not actually pointing to a little cute woolly lamb, he was looking at the Lord. Also the picture conveys a ginormous amount of information, the five words conveys enough material for men to write myriads of books on this one point that Jesus is the lamb of God.

The same with 1Pet 5:8 I have the same reaction when people say its literal, for them its the go to verse that shows Satan must be in the world today, even though it flat out contradicts literal passages.

And like the Lamb of God 1Pet 5:8 it conveys a ginormous amount of Information that books could be written to explain.

To me even the fact that Peter is the one writing it conveys meaning, for example remember when Peter told the Lord Not to go to His death, and the Lord rebuked Peter and said get Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art a stumbling-block unto me: for thou mindest not the things of God, but the things of men

If the Lord rebuked me so, it would surly stick in my mind, Oh, just realised I am presuming here that we agree that it was not actually Satan but Peter opposing Gods will here. Another example of how Language works, the same as when my wife is bossy, I may affectionately refer to her as my little hitler.

Satan is a pattern for sin, if we want to look at how sin can lay hold of men and ruin peoples lives look at Satan's example, he was created perfect he had wisdom, he had beauty and splendor, yet because of pride he is laid low, if it can happen to him, it can happen to anyone,

1John 3:8 The one practicing sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning.

One who sins is of his father the devil, just like those of faith are of their father Abraham, does not mean Abraham gave us faith or that the devil made me sin.

“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭6:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s truth telling you your enemy isn’t flesh and blood your enemies are spiritually wicked beings

agree, except I think its talking about men, to me principalities are rulers, like Hitler was, rulers of darkness of this world, means that the world is in darkness and men who are sinful and rebellious will start changing things like normalising same sex marriages etc. spiritual wickedness in high places, includes world leaders like Hitler for sure but high places could be higher education where evolution is taught to the general population and we have to contend against such things with the whole armor of God

that’s why when we start hearing the plan it sounds like this

“For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (for the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds

casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭10:3-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Agree and I put those verses into practice, our weapon is the Word, For example I use it to witness to men and tell them God is the creator and the big bang is a made theory to undermine God and His Word, again its not a flesh and blood battle but a spiritual battle. We dont hop into a boxing ring and force men to agree with us, its not a flesh and blood battle, its a spiritual battle making one see they are a doomed sinner needing salvation.

To me you trying to make these verses as a battle against hordes of demons in another realm who are ruling over this world and causing all our problems, and I have no idea what it is your doing to battle these things unless its the same as me witnessing the truth to men while wearing the whole armor of God

I honestly think your missing that even from Adam and Eve , Satan was influencing them to disbelieve Gods word , and break the commandment

if you look on genesis two you see Gods commandment “ don’t eat the fruit you will surely die “

then you have Satan come behind him and say “ that’s not true the fruit is good for you will make you wise “

so even from eve God forst blames the serpent , then blames eve , then lays the consequences of death upon Adam who was given dominion

Satan definitely deceived Eve no argument there bro, yet Adam and Eve were sinless beings at this point they could not have disobeyed God without out an outside influence, now that they know (have a knowledge of Good and evil) sin they dont need an outside influence.

Consider why hell is made brother

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:41‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Why ? Because the spiritual Rebellion In Heaven is now on earth corrupting and seeking to corrupt would be Christian’s and keep them away from salvation

I think we see it quite differently but do appreciate the conversation brother and kind spirit

if you let the new testsment be true and can not reason why it’s not really true or doesn’t really Mean what it says I think you would come to a stark realization that Satan and his fallen angels are always trying to deceive people , they can’t force anyone but if we invite them into our lives through sin and wockedness they can reek havoc on a life and they can steal a persons soul

to not accept that this is happening only disarms us and makes us an easy target because of we don’t know we even have an enemy trying to destroy us , how would we ever take anything in scriotire seriously ?

if we aren’t careful we end up rejecting everything by reasoning why it’s all nonsense or why it needs some drastic interpretation in the end we’re just not able to accept that’s there were limited to a natural view d need to intellectually figure it out but that’s not the way

the New Testament should be what shapes our understanding of God , the world , and ourselves

our enemies are clear but much of what man understand about those enemies is far off I do agree with you there prayer is a spiritual weapon , resisting temptation is a spiritual weapon , obeying the lords word is a spiritual weapon , faith is a shield the word a sword

we do these things because we have enemies in this world that are spiritual and are influencers of the minds and hearts of people it’s just about accepting the new testaments revelations we can’t know then until we accept what’s there and refrain from interpreting it independently and intellectually faith is when we start hearing and believing the word of Christ

very little in the new testsment doesn’t just mean what it says it’s God speaking plainly rather than in figures like the law and prophets the gospel is the reality of all those veiled shadows

You say lots of good things here just we approach from different angles, I think Sin is the great enemy and pride eats at us all, I think we have to look to our own hearts and realise they are incredibly deceitful, when we understand this danger, to me it makes me not trust, or lean upon my self but wholly lean upon God for understanding and help.

When men succumb to sin and pride they can become malignant which even leads to false prophets which spreads everywhere, this spirit of antichrist is pervasive in the world, Yet we dont lose hope for greater is He that is in you then he that is in the world.

I honestly think those who believe in demons, the ones I know in real life struggle with sin, and are continually backsliding into sin, its a sorry sight, to me and Ive counseled them to their face, that the sin comes from them and their own desires and they are trying to make excuses. For the bible is clear we are not tempted except by our own desires and lusts.


Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Be humble be vigilant for your enemy satan(SIN) prowls around seeking whom he may devour.

AS the Lord said to Cain beware Sin lies at the door, its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.

 

[Clayman]

and who said the Prophets made mistakes and Paul corrected Peter because he ate with Gentiles but in front of Jews was 2-faced?

I said it, my point is man is fallible, you said not to put all my trust in modern scholars, and that the ancient Jews knew directly from the prophets, I dont know what your point was going to be, but those at Corinth knew the apostles directly and made huge mistakes, Peter an actual apostle stopped eating with the uncircumcised and needed corrected. I presumed maybe wrongly, I dont know, you were going to say a 2nd or 3rd century Jew would be 100% accurate and he said 2+2+3 equals 10 so it must be true.

Yet I think all men are fallible, and we should just go to the scriptures for reasoning out things with each other, is all.

And I find it interesting that God shows believers warts and all, David was a murderer/ adulterer, Moses was not allowed to cross the Jordan etc right through the bible.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I said it, my point is man is fallible, you said not to put all my trust in modern scholars, and that the ancient Jews knew directly from the prophets, I dont know what your point was going to be, but those at Corinth knew the apostles directly and made huge mistakes, Peter an actual apostle stopped eating with the uncircumcised and needed corrected. I presumed maybe wrongly, I dont know, you were going to say a 2nd or 3rd century Jew would be 100% accurate and he said 2+2+3 equals 10 so it must be true.

Yet I think all men are fallible, and we should just go to the scriptures for reasoning out things with each other, is all.

And I find it interesting that God shows believers warts and all, David was a murderer/ adulterer, Moses was not allowed to cross the Jordan etc right through the bible.

the Beautiful thing about God's Holy Word is many times it can be backed by historical written proofs. we have a Bible, but we also have Garden of Eden to the Flood Period, Flood to the First Temple, First temple to its destruction, destruction to the Second Temple, Second Temple to it's destruction, and then Book of Revelation at end of First century.

but between these Key Periods, we have other Ancient Writings. now, they are not considered Inspired even though we see Jesus, Peter, Paul, Jude, John writing/quoting Oral book of Enoch. it's much like Joshua and king David quoting Book of Jasher. to the Ancient Jews, these were Godly Books. the Roman Catholics decided they were not. but not here to debate that but to say the information was good enough for GOD in flesh to quote like it was the Gospel Truth. that should tell us something whenever God uses Materials the HUMANS claim not Inspired!

but i mention those Materials because this is where we learn that the Ancient Jews, even God Himself in the flesh, spoke about the Nephilim spirits being current day Demons. if God did not correct this belief then [[((IT MUST BE TRUE))]]!

 

[Clayman]

the Beautiful thing about God's Holy Word is many times it can be backed by historical written proofs. we have a Bible, but we also have Garden of Eden to the Flood Period, Flood to the First Temple, First temple to its destruction, destruction to the Second Temple, Second Temple to it's destruction, and then Book of Revelation at end of First century.

but between these Key Periods, we have other Ancient Writings. now, they are not considered Inspired even though we see Jesus, Peter, Paul, Jude, John writing/quoting Oral book of Enoch. it's much like Joshua and king David quoting Book of Jasher. to the Ancient Jews, these were Godly Books. the Roman Catholics decided they were not. but not here to debate that but to say the information was good enough for GOD in flesh to quote like it was the Gospel Truth. that should tell us something whenever God uses Materials the HUMANS claim not Inspired!

but i mention those Materials because this is where we learn that the Ancient Jews, even God Himself in the flesh, spoke about the Nephilim spirits being current day Demons. if God did not correct this belief then [[((IT MUST BE TRUE))]]!

I dont put any stock in the book of Enoch, it's obviously not inspired, if Jude quoted from it, which I don't think he did (I agree, that's another topic), it does not necessarily mean God put his trust in it enough to treat it as gospel truth, To me Satan or a heretical book could be quoted if something they said turned out to be true or of consequence, not that that means I believe Jude quoted the book of Enoch although it makes no difference to me, for I have other reasons why I don't think he did, as for God Himself in the flesh referring to the nephilim you will have to elaborate, I suspect it's not as straight forward as you have said.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I dont put any stock in the book of Enoch, it's obviously not inspired, if Jude quoted from it, which I don't think he did (I agree, that's another topic), it does not necessarily mean God put his trust in it enough to treat it as gospel truth, To me Satan or a heretical book could be quoted if something they said turned out to be true or of consequence, not that that means I believe Jude quoted the book of Enoch although it makes no difference to me, for I have other reasons why I don't think he did, as for God Himself in the flesh referring to the nephilim you will have to elaborate, I suspect it's not as straight forward as you have said.

You clearly don't read specifically what I said. Not only did Jude quote Enoch but Jesus, Peter, Paul, and John quoted Enoch.

 

[Clayman]

You clearly don't read specifically what I said. Not only did Jude quote Enoch but Jesus, Peter, Paul, and John quoted Enoch.

I did, and I also read and maybe mistakenly thought that you were also not here to debate if the book of Enoch was inspired. If someone says they dont think Jude was actually quoting Enoch, Ive given a heads up on my position and You probably already know my arguments, no doubt you would have heard them before, and if you already know this you already know I dont think the others were quoting the book of Enoch either, and I agreed its another topic I also think for another thread, but one I probably wont partake in as it doesnt really interest me that much, I much rather just hear your thoughts on scripture friend.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I did, and I also read and maybe mistakenly thought that you were also not here to debate if the book of Enoch was inspired. If someone says they dont think Jude was actually quoting Enoch, Ive given a heads up on my position and You probably already know my arguments, no doubt you would have heard them before, and if you already know this you already know I dont think the others were quoting the book of Enoch either, and I agreed its another topic I also think for another thread, but one I probably wont partake in as it doesnt really interest me that much, I much rather just hear your thoughts on scripture friend.

since i happen to be online and caught this post immediately, i will answer it quickly.

there is no other source for the things Jesus said, Peter, Paul, John, and Jude write. what Jesus said and the others wrote can be find directly in the Book of Enoch. there's not another book in existence with the exact things like they exist in Enoch.

Enoch was a Righteous Man who never died like Elijah. Noah comes from Enoch's Lineage.

since no other source but Enoch had the same sayings and writings Jesus used, Peter-Paul-John-Jude used...if they were not quoting Enoch then who were they quoting. the sayings are not considered Inspired so it's not quoting the Holy Spirit. who else then are they quoting?

 

[Clayman]

since i happen to be online and caught this post immediately, i will answer it quickly.

there is no other source for the things Jesus said, Peter, Paul, John, and Jude write. what Jesus said and the others wrote can be find directly in the Book of Enoch. there's not another book in existence with the exact things like they exist in Enoch.

Enoch was a Righteous Man who never died like Elijah. Noah comes from Enoch's Lineage.

since no other source but Enoch had the same sayings and writings Jesus used, Peter-Paul-John-Jude used...if they were not quoting Enoch then who were they quoting. the sayings are not considered Inspired so it's not quoting the Holy Spirit. who else then are they quoting?

Jude was inspired, he could have been informing us directly what Enoch the seventh from Adam prophesied with or with out the existence of the Book of Enoch, it would not be the only time scripture does this, obviously you dont believe Enoch the seventh from Adam wrote the book of Enoch? And as I said even if it is a quote from the the actual book of Enoch it makes no difference to me, it does not give proof that the book of Enoch is inspired, What I mean is if the Lord returns and quoted out of mother gooses nursery rhymes that Mary had a little lamb, it does not mean mother gooses nursery rhymes is inspired.

And as for the Book of Enoch, you already know alot of people think alot of it was written 2nd-3rd century as its a fractured book but I said I didnt want to go there and ive already steeped into the rabbit hole, lol.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Jude was inspired, he could have been informing us directly what Enoch the seventh from Adam prophesied with or with out the existence of the Book of Enoch, it would not be the only time scripture does this, obviously you dont believe Enoch the seventh from Adam wrote the book of Enoch? And as I said even if it is a quote from the the actual book of Enoch it makes no difference to me, it does not give proof that the book of Enoch is inspired, What I mean is if the Lord returns and quoted out of mother gooses nursery rhymes that Mary had a little lamb, it does not mean mother gooses nursery rhymes is inspired.

And as for the Book of Enoch, you already know alot of people think alot of it was written 2nd-3rd century as its a fractured book but I said I didnt want to go there and ive already steeped into the rabbit hole, lol.

agreed about when it was written but if you read the Yiddish Talmud the Oral Version of Enoch has been around since the First Temple that Solomon built.

 

[persistent]

I honestly think those who believe in demons, the ones I know in real life struggle with sin, and are continually backsliding into sin, its a sorry sight, to me and Ive counseled them to their face, that the sin comes from them and their own desires and they are trying to make excuses. For the bible is clear we are not tempted except by our own desires and lusts.

But where do those thoughts come from? Why I ask myself did that thought just come to mind? Now I can appreciate what you are saying but just now as I am typing this it occurs to me that the physiological, that is necessary and characteristic functions, of the whole person must be considered. Think about it. And I am not trying to diminish your views and have not read many of your comments but came upon your statement in this post as I was searching for some answers regarding the reality of the 'metaphysical' or 'supernatural' or 'spiritual' or however you may want to think of something other than the physical. From your statement it sounds as though you have a simplistic view when even science is coming to the realization of the incredible complexity of even the most simple organism and many of those involved in such investigations are non-believers in God and those who claim they believe it seems may be suspect to a degree. I really think you are unaware of the oversimplification your statement presents. I am not real familiar with scripture but as I understand the Bible presents to us God as Spirit and creation of things seen and unseen. So again I say that even secular science in the understanding of the physiology of the simplest organism is seemingly coming to the realization that this is more than just some mechanistic matter that suddenly came to be alive. At least some do.

 

[persistent]

yeah I don’t really look at it like you are it honestly seems to me like your reading scripture and then reasoning it away by saying it doesn’t really mean what it says it’s somehow all figurative

see what your saying here ?

“just because I dont see the enemy as demons, does not mean I dont think the world is not in a spiritual battle for the very souls of men”

see this this is identifying your adversary

“Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you. Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭5:6-9‬

there’s no figure no hidden meankng needed to be interpreted , but it’s just that you don’t see it that way the way to scripture is presenting it to you again this isn’t a figure

“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭6:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s truth telling you your enemy isn’t flesh and blood your enemies are spiritually wicked beings

that’s why when we start hearing the plan it sounds like this

“For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (for the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds

casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭10:3-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I honestly think your missing that even from Adam and Eve , Satan was influencing them to disbelieve Gods word , and break the commandment

if you look on genesis two you see Gods commandment “ don’t eat the fruit you will surely die “

then you have Satan come behind him and say “ that’s not true the fruit is good for you will make you wise “

so even from eve God forst blames the serpent , then blames eve , then lays the consequences of death upon Adam who was given dominion

Consider why hell is made brother

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:41‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Why ? Because the spiritual Rebellion In Heaven is now on earth corrupting and seeking to corrupt would be Christian’s and keep them away from salvation

I think we see it quite differently but do appreciate the conversation brother and kind spirit

if you let the new testsment be true and can not reason why it’s not really true or doesn’t really Mean what it says I think you would come to a stark realization that Satan and his fallen angels are always trying to deceive people , they can’t force anyone but if we invite them into our lives through sin and wockedness they can reek havoc on a life and they can steal a persons soul

to not accept that this is happening only disarms us and makes us an easy target because of we don’t know we even have an enemy trying to destroy us , how would we ever take anything in scriotire seriously ?

if we aren’t careful we end up rejecting everything by reasoning why it’s all nonsense or why it needs some drastic interpretation in the end we’re just not able to accept that’s there were limited to a natural view d need to intellectually figure it out but that’s not the way

the New Testament should be what shapes our understanding of God , the world , and ourselves

our enemies are clear but much of what man understand about those enemies is far off I do agree with you there prayer is a spiritual weapon , resisting temptation is a spiritual weapon , obeying the lords word is a spiritual weapon , faith is a shield the word a sword

we do these things because we have enemies in this world that are spiritual and are influencers of the minds and hearts of people it’s just about accepting the new testaments revelations we can’t know then until we accept what’s there and refrain from interpreting it independently and intellectually faith is when we start hearing and believing the word of Christ

very little in the new testsment doesn’t just mean what it says it’s God speaking plainly rather than in figures like the law and prophets the gospel is the reality of all those veiled shadows

Hey Pilgrimshope I did a search of forums for 'strong hold' and it brought up two posts with 'exorcism' in addition to the not a few posts where 'strong hold' is mentioned. So I decided to look at what is this about and saw a comment by 'clayman' implying there is no influence on us from the devil to which I replied in a fashion and then I scrolled to the next post and see your reply to virtually the same thing. And I see, as usual, you can zero in on the Bible passages which apply. So here you reference 1 Peter 5:6-9 and the passage speaks of a "roaring lion". Now I get troubled by what seems to be not so aggressive as a lion but just thoughts that pop in to my head. I see you also reference 2 Cor 10:3-5 which I discovered by calling a local AoG affiliate and was surprised that my contact there knew that passage off the top of her head. I wonder if all these thoughts are related to all our reluctance to respond to Jesus having been at our door knocking and us refusing to have even so much as cracked the door to see who was there and now 'Satan" or a 'minion' of his can somehow influence us and what we are thinking. I know there are references to this type of thing in the secular world; ESP, hypnosis and maybe mediums which my mother liked to go and take me too and even reading horoscopes? These things seem more tame than a roaring lion. Maybe they aren't as tame as I think? I read your 'poem' and see it is a very interesting way to do a testimony and see that maybe some of the things there may be more of a roaring lion. In AA a word used regarding the effects of alcohol is 'insidious', which implies stealth and then harm. In my own case, I wonder about this too.

 

[Randy4u2c]

Is demonic possession and Christian exorcism still going on today? Or is it all fake?

Just as Satan entered into Judas and caused him to betray Jesus, evil spirits can influence the behavior of men. But in Luke 10:19-20, the Lord gave us power over all our enemies including Satan, to cast them out in the name of the Lord. James 5:14-15 says to anoint the person with oil and pray over him in the name of the Lord. The evil spirits have no choice but to obey the Lord