Is Calvinism the truth?
- Thread starter AndrewMorgan
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
yes the thing is Adam did have but then he sold mankind into the slavery tour talking about some people miss the part where man began in a relationship with God and God gave man freedom dominion and choice
then man blew it , and followed satans Will , was then cast out of Eden where God placed man , was the. Barred from eating the tree of life in paradise , and then only ten generations later mans already obviously enslaved by Satan and his corruption of thier hesrt and mind this is only ten generations later
“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth. And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.”
Genesis 6:5-6, 12-13
we get so wrapped up in modern takes like everything that ever happened was gods will , obviously he’s repenting here because of what man has done and in repentance decides to destroy them all but for a remnant saved by grace through faith
so already mans enslaved but many miss it because they don’t underrrsnd the term slavery to sin and what it means biblically ot hesrkens back to when Adam and Eve ate the fruit of the knowledge of good and also evil
this corrupted them because already they were the image of God and declared very good d already in e beginning god seperated good and evil light and darkness then made man in his image saw man and said very good
then he just warned them “ whatever you do don’t eat this one particular fruit it will bring you death “ it has evil in it it’s not for you “ be blessed and rule the earth and dwell with me in paradise “ but just don’t eat this fruit “
but then Satan led them astray in tbier minds and hearts the fruit caused this dilemma
“For we know that the law is spiritual:
but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. ( if I’m acting against what i know is right )
I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?”
Romans 7:14, 20-21, 23-24 KJV
you see mans design was never meant to have evil in our minds and hearts we weren’t made for it we were made to reflect Gods goodness and mercy the things we find in Christ and his word but we’re never meant to harbor both the knowledge of good and evil in our heart because we weren’t designed for it this happened and this is where our slavery and bondage exists this is the roots of our sin
“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: all these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
Mark 7:21-23 KJV
see the corruption isn’t there by Gods Will but because man transgressed his Will. And so the redemption comes when we start to acknolwedge the truth in our mind and heart hearing and believing the gospel the truth is what sets us free from the conflict of good and evil in our hearts that has us snared
we need this
“And be not conformed to this world:
but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind,
that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”
Romans 12:2 KJV
the way to have that is this
“Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.”
John 7:16-17 KJV
and freedom is here
“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”
John 8:31-32, 34, 36 KJV
it’s why we share the gospel captives being set free when we hear and believe
“in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
2 Timothy 2:25-26 KJV
Then we come into to freedom and instructions of repentance and righteousness and have the same choice adam was given we can dwell with the lord in his presence or keep letting Satan deceive us into not believing like he did then
if we are in Christ we are free to choose life but also are free to turn back to the world and follow the lies
then man blew it , and followed satans Will , was then cast out of Eden where God placed man , was the. Barred from eating the tree of life in paradise , and then only ten generations later mans already obviously enslaved by Satan and his corruption of thier hesrt and mind this is only ten generations later
“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth. And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.”
Genesis 6:5-6, 12-13
we get so wrapped up in modern takes like everything that ever happened was gods will , obviously he’s repenting here because of what man has done and in repentance decides to destroy them all but for a remnant saved by grace through faith
so already mans enslaved but many miss it because they don’t underrrsnd the term slavery to sin and what it means biblically ot hesrkens back to when Adam and Eve ate the fruit of the knowledge of good and also evil
this corrupted them because already they were the image of God and declared very good d already in e beginning god seperated good and evil light and darkness then made man in his image saw man and said very good
then he just warned them “ whatever you do don’t eat this one particular fruit it will bring you death “ it has evil in it it’s not for you “ be blessed and rule the earth and dwell with me in paradise “ but just don’t eat this fruit “
but then Satan led them astray in tbier minds and hearts the fruit caused this dilemma
“For we know that the law is spiritual:
but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. ( if I’m acting against what i know is right )
I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
but I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?”
Romans 7:14, 20-21, 23-24 KJV
you see mans design was never meant to have evil in our minds and hearts we weren’t made for it we were made to reflect Gods goodness and mercy the things we find in Christ and his word but we’re never meant to harbor both the knowledge of good and evil in our heart because we weren’t designed for it this happened and this is where our slavery and bondage exists this is the roots of our sin
“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: all these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
Mark 7:21-23 KJV
see the corruption isn’t there by Gods Will but because man transgressed his Will. And so the redemption comes when we start to acknolwedge the truth in our mind and heart hearing and believing the gospel the truth is what sets us free from the conflict of good and evil in our hearts that has us snared
we need this
“And be not conformed to this world:
but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind,
that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”
Romans 12:2 KJV
the way to have that is this
“Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.”
John 7:16-17 KJV
and freedom is here
“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”
John 8:31-32, 34, 36 KJV
it’s why we share the gospel captives being set free when we hear and believe
“in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
2 Timothy 2:25-26 KJV
Then we come into to freedom and instructions of repentance and righteousness and have the same choice adam was given we can dwell with the lord in his presence or keep letting Satan deceive us into not believing like he did then
if we are in Christ we are free to choose life but also are free to turn back to the world and follow the lies
-
1
- Show all
That is your opinion based upon your interpretation of the scriptures. Give me your interpretation of Ezk 10, about the wheel within a wheel. I believe that it harmonizes with Matt 7 about the two gates. The outer, larger, wheel being the wide gate, invisible church, and the smaller, inner wheel being the straight gate, the visible church.
If the scriptures do not harmonize to a person, then that person is not interpreting them right. Why don't you tell me how you interpret John 10:26-29, or do you just put them in a drawer that is labeled "this has no scriptural basis:?
1 Cor 2:14 says that the unregenerate person cannot discern the things of the Spirit, and thinks them to be foolishness.
God is Love. He did not create any soul for Hell. He loves all and died for all. No one is "predestined to damnation". God Bless.
1 Jn 4: "God’s Love and Ours
"7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. 10 This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. 11 Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us."
1 Jn 4: "God’s Love and Ours
"7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. 10 This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. 11 Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us."
I’ve noticed that people who do not claim to be Calvinist and actively reject Calvinism sometimes believe in Calvinistic theories. To varying degrees, depending on the denomination you visit, popular Christianity typically espouses a bit of Calvinism; just cross examine the preacher.
Popular Christianity is positively inundated with many false doctrines. Calvinism is a problem, but maybe the least of our concerns at the moment.
Popular Christianity is positively inundated with many false doctrines. Calvinism is a problem, but maybe the least of our concerns at the moment.
FreeGrace2 said:
Matt 7-
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Since Matt 7:13,14 describe the "wide gate that leads to destruction" and the "narrow gate leads to life", it is very obvious that the wide gate is where unbelievers travel and the narrow gate is where believers travel, your comment is beyond bizarre. How can unbelievers who are on the trail to destruction be "born again children of God".
It is precisely the born again children of God who are on the narrow gate, which leads to life.
Matt 7-
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Since Matt 7:13,14 describe the "wide gate that leads to destruction" and the "narrow gate leads to life", it is very obvious that the wide gate is where unbelievers travel and the narrow gate is where believers travel, your comment is beyond bizarre. How can unbelievers who are on the trail to destruction be "born again children of God".
It is precisely the born again children of God who are on the narrow gate, which leads to life.
-
1
- Show all
FreeGrace2 said:
John 20:31 - But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
Jesus taught that becoming His sheep is through faith in Him.
John 10:9 - I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture.
John 20:31 - But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
Jesus taught that becoming His sheep is through faith in Him.
John 10:9 - I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture.
-
1
- Show all
"God does not predestine his elect's every action."
Whatever you think and whatever the rights and wrongs of the issue, the debate is alive and kicking. I don't know if you're familiar with James White.
There are so many different people saying so many different things that it's easy to get mixed up, so maybe you've already stated your position, which I may have missed, but would you like to clarify?
Do you hold the Calvinist TULIP position re. these issues? - and particularly the their compatibalist form of freedom?
This misunderstands what free will is. It is only the freedom to choose between available options.
Man does NOT have the option to choose to be sinless.
This has no bearing on free will.
Spiritually dead in a live body. We still can choose to believe God's promises.
Right, physically dead do not make choices. They have no choices to make.
What verse shows clearly that regenerate precedes faith?
Rather, Paul equates salvation and being made alive (regeneration) in Eph 2:5.
made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.
Then, in v8, Paul STATES that salvation (along with regeneration) is through faith.
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
This proves that faith precedes both salvation and regeneration.
When man believes the gospel-
God saves the man, 1 Cor 1;21
God regenerates the man, Eph 2:8
God makes the believer His child, John 1:12 and Gal 3:26
Man does NOT have the option to choose to be sinless.
This has no bearing on free will.
Spiritually dead in a live body. We still can choose to believe God's promises.
Right, physically dead do not make choices. They have no choices to make.
What verse shows clearly that regenerate precedes faith?
Rather, Paul equates salvation and being made alive (regeneration) in Eph 2:5.
made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.
Then, in v8, Paul STATES that salvation (along with regeneration) is through faith.
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
This proves that faith precedes both salvation and regeneration.
When man believes the gospel-
God saves the man, 1 Cor 1;21
God regenerates the man, Eph 2:8
God makes the believer His child, John 1:12 and Gal 3:26
-
1
- Show all
It is destructive when born again children of God misinterpret scriptures and teach others a false doctrine. That is the wide gate. Just look at how many false doctrines are taught on this forum, yours being one of them. Your tactic of researching scripture is no good if you misinterpret scriptures.
The "whoever" are sheep of the shepherd. Verse 26 - but ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. As I have told you before, You are not interpreting the salvation scriptures rightly. His sheep, who already have the promise of being delivered (saved) eternally,. If they follow the shepherd (Jesus) they will be delivered (saved) from not enjoying the abundant life that he offers them while they are here on earth.
FreeGrace2 said:
How can unbelievers who are on the trail to destruction be "born again children of God".
Seems you really misunderstand the Word of God. The 2 verses are about those who will go to heaven and those who will go to the LOF.
You should say that while looking directly into a mirror.
That is exactly what you are doing. Unbelievably so.
How can unbelievers who are on the trail to destruction be "born again children of God".
Seems you really misunderstand the Word of God. The 2 verses are about those who will go to heaven and those who will go to the LOF.
You should say that while looking directly into a mirror.
That is exactly what you are doing. Unbelievably so.
The elect, chosen before the foundation of the world, are Jesus's sheep. When they are born into this world by natural birth, they are dead in trespasses and sins (Eph 2:1-3), But God, who had a great love for his sheep, even when they were dead in sins, hath quickened them together with Christ.. (Eph 2:4-5).
Those that are not his sheep, Are goats (Matt 25:32) and goats cannot be changed into sheep.
Those that are not his sheep, Are goats (Matt 25:32) and goats cannot be changed into sheep.
FreeGrace2 said:
John 10:9 - I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture.
Jesus used a figure of speech to refer to believing Him in v.9. That's when THE sheep become HIS sheep.
I reject your opinions.
I fully understand about deliverance from earthly dangers, etc.
So you seem to acknowledge that Jesus promised of being delivered (meaning saved eternally). So, please explain to the best of your ability what Jesus promised for Him to save anyone eternally.
From all your posts, I have no idea what you think.
John 10:9 - I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture.
Jesus used a figure of speech to refer to believing Him in v.9. That's when THE sheep become HIS sheep.
I reject your opinions.
I fully understand about deliverance from earthly dangers, etc.
So you seem to acknowledge that Jesus promised of being delivered (meaning saved eternally). So, please explain to the best of your ability what Jesus promised for Him to save anyone eternally.
From all your posts, I have no idea what you think.