And the SMOKE of their torment...No eternal damnation for anyone, except the Devil
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Matt 25:46
New Living Translation
“And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life.”
English Standard Version
And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
King James Bible
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
New King James Version
And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
New American Standard Bible
These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Matt25:41
English Standard Version
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Mark 9:43And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell,h to the unquenchable fire.i 45And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell. 47And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, 48‘where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’
Jude 1:7 ESV
Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
2 Thessalonians 1:9 ESV
They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,
Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”
Jude 1:13
Wild waves of the sea, casting up the foam of their own shame; wandering stars, for whom the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved forever.
Daniel 12:2
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Luke 16:24 ESV
And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’
BTW, Jesus didn't lie. "There was a man"
Revelation 14:9-11
And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”
Isaiah 33:14 ESV
The sinners in Zion are afraid; trembling has seized the godless: “Who among us can dwell with the consuming fire? Who among us can dwell with everlasting burnings?”
Yeah, I know, late in the game again. But with such a multitude of witnesses how can somebody come up with such nonsense?
New Living Translation
“And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life.”
English Standard Version
And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
King James Bible
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
New King James Version
And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
New American Standard Bible
These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Matt25:41
English Standard Version
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Mark 9:43And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell,h to the unquenchable fire.i 45And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame than with two feet to be thrown into hell. 47And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, 48‘where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’
Jude 1:7 ESV
Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
2 Thessalonians 1:9 ESV
They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,
Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”
Jude 1:13
Wild waves of the sea, casting up the foam of their own shame; wandering stars, for whom the gloom of utter darkness has been reserved forever.
Daniel 12:2
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Luke 16:24 ESV
And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’
BTW, Jesus didn't lie. "There was a man"
Revelation 14:9-11
And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, he also will drink the wine of God's wrath, poured full strength into the cup of his anger, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”
Isaiah 33:14 ESV
The sinners in Zion are afraid; trembling has seized the godless: “Who among us can dwell with the consuming fire? Who among us can dwell with everlasting burnings?”
Yeah, I know, late in the game again. But with such a multitude of witnesses how can somebody come up with such nonsense?
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Give me an example, if you have one.
OK, give me ane example.
OK, show me any "insult" I've used again anyone. Then show me where I've been "contentious".
I would like post # for anyone who follows this thread so they can see for themselves. And actually include the specific quote. Just identifying a post # to a long response to one of your long posts won't be enough.
So, I need the post # and actual quote if you have any to prove what you claim.
My approach has always been to ask for verses that SAY what the poster claims. That is exactly how the Bereans checked out Paul's preaching in Acts 17:11. I do the same.
I think anyone who read my post would instantly realize that they are CHALLENGES to YOU. You made FALSE CLAIMS and I am challenging you to prove them with actual evidence.
No, I'm direct and blunt. Those who have accepted false doctrines just don't like facing the truth.
OK, keep crying about it. I already explained exactly how I use "maudlin sentiments", but go ahead and ignore it and keep trying to demonize me by your lies and deception.
I've never said anything about a "crying drunk". I DID say maudlin means "overly sentimental".
You proved that by the comment that ECT is CRUEL. That's being overly sentimental. God isn't like you. He is NOT even sentimental.
But you wouldn't know that.
And, my challenge stands. Can you prove your empty claims or not? Others read these threads too, even if they don't post.
If you don't/can't prove your claims, you will lose ALL credibility. That's how it works.
OK, give me ane example.
OK, show me any "insult" I've used again anyone. Then show me where I've been "contentious".
I would like post # for anyone who follows this thread so they can see for themselves. And actually include the specific quote. Just identifying a post # to a long response to one of your long posts won't be enough.
So, I need the post # and actual quote if you have any to prove what you claim.
My approach has always been to ask for verses that SAY what the poster claims. That is exactly how the Bereans checked out Paul's preaching in Acts 17:11. I do the same.
I think anyone who read my post would instantly realize that they are CHALLENGES to YOU. You made FALSE CLAIMS and I am challenging you to prove them with actual evidence.
No, I'm direct and blunt. Those who have accepted false doctrines just don't like facing the truth.
OK, keep crying about it. I already explained exactly how I use "maudlin sentiments", but go ahead and ignore it and keep trying to demonize me by your lies and deception.
I've never said anything about a "crying drunk". I DID say maudlin means "overly sentimental".
You proved that by the comment that ECT is CRUEL. That's being overly sentimental. God isn't like you. He is NOT even sentimental.
But you wouldn't know that.
And, my challenge stands. Can you prove your empty claims or not? Others read these threads too, even if they don't post.
If you don't/can't prove your claims, you will lose ALL credibility. That's how it works.
There’s no example of the “real incident” in the Bible to compare it with. The only example to compare it with is that the unsaved are destroyed.
The rich man was said to go to torment because he received good things in life; that isn’t how it works. Lazarus went to comfort because he received bad things in life; that isn’t how it works. It’s definitely a parable. There is only one gospel and it isn’t based on receiving good or bad things.
The rich man was said to go to torment because he received good things in life; that isn’t how it works. Lazarus went to comfort because he received bad things in life; that isn’t how it works. It’s definitely a parable. There is only one gospel and it isn’t based on receiving good or bad things.
Of course you wouldn't. It challenges your claims. It's not a parable. The account of Lazarus and a rich man wasn't introduced as a parable, as all of Jesus' parables were. Further, Jesus never used proper names in His parables, much LESS an actual person. Yet, in the account Jesus mentioned Abraham having a conversation with the rich man and Jesus named the poor man. No parable has such features.
But, like the SDA, you gotta reject the reality of the account. However, Jesus gave us a glimpse of the afterlife for believers and unbelievers, before His resurrection.
But, like the SDA, you gotta reject the reality of the account. However, Jesus gave us a glimpse of the afterlife for believers and unbelievers, before His resurrection.
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Yes, their bodies will certainly be destroyed.
Jesus was simply contrasting how each man lived his life. However, what IS PERFECTLY CLEAR is that Lazarus believed in the Messiah to come and went to "Abraham's bosom" a term in the OT to describe where the saved went after death.
And the rich man wanted Abraham to send Lazarus up to earth to warn his 5 brothers about where he ended up so they wouldn't be joining him. That's quite clear that the rich man wasn't interested in the Messiah or promise of eternal life while he was alive.
Recall that Paul's only "Scripture" he cited was the OT and from it He proved that "Jesus was the Christ".
That wasn't even Jesus' point. The FACT that Laz was in "Abraham's bosom" proves that he believed in the Messiah.
Jesus was simply contrasting how each man lived his life. However, what IS PERFECTLY CLEAR is that Lazarus believed in the Messiah to come and went to "Abraham's bosom" a term in the OT to describe where the saved went after death.
And the rich man wanted Abraham to send Lazarus up to earth to warn his 5 brothers about where he ended up so they wouldn't be joining him. That's quite clear that the rich man wasn't interested in the Messiah or promise of eternal life while he was alive.
Recall that Paul's only "Scripture" he cited was the OT and from it He proved that "Jesus was the Christ".
That wasn't even Jesus' point. The FACT that Laz was in "Abraham's bosom" proves that he believed in the Messiah.
Nonsense. Open a dictionary or just look it up online. Maudlin means self-pityingly or tearfully sentimental, often through drunkenness. It’s wildly inappropriate here and it’s inexcusable. You failing to understand that words have meaning doesn’t change anything. You’re being told now and you’re unrepentant about.
No that isn’t how it works. I don’t need to prove my claims because you know they’re true and there are witnesses.
You’ve destroyed your witness as an alleged Christian and have lost all credibility. It was one thing to just be wrong about everything in the Bible, I can accept that even if my you aren’t teachable, but every time you reply you give me a wonderful chance to preach the truth and I love that. However, saying mean and nasty things toward others won’t be accepted under any circumstances.
You certainly don’t have any apparent fruits of the Holy Spirit or truth to fall back on. That’s glaringly obvious. Your solution is to repent and ask God to help you know the truth and ask Him to send the Holy Spirit to help you.
No that isn’t how it works. I don’t need to prove my claims because you know they’re true and there are witnesses.
You’ve destroyed your witness as an alleged Christian and have lost all credibility. It was one thing to just be wrong about everything in the Bible, I can accept that even if my you aren’t teachable, but every time you reply you give me a wonderful chance to preach the truth and I love that. However, saying mean and nasty things toward others won’t be accepted under any circumstances.
You certainly don’t have any apparent fruits of the Holy Spirit or truth to fall back on. That’s glaringly obvious. Your solution is to repent and ask God to help you know the truth and ask Him to send the Holy Spirit to help you.
This parable is pre-crucifixion so their salvation would have been based on their adherence to the Law. You don’t have a valid point. The reason they are where they were was literally because they received good or bad things in life. Even under the law a path to salvation isn’t “receive bad things and you go to comfort.” That’s why this is a parable. It contains spiritual truths and lessons.
Is this beast the human?
Revelation 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Revelation 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
is this the same man?
Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Revelation 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Is this an accurate description of the man you are referring to?
Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Revelation 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
Revelation 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
Revelation 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
Because this man seems to have ruled in heaven, to have lived through quite some time on earth, then seems to NOT be at all and then seems to be again for a short time. I was wondering what HUMAN could pull off such a devilishly long life?
or are you speaking of some other 'man'?
Revelation 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Revelation 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
is this the same man?
Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Revelation 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Is this an accurate description of the man you are referring to?
Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Revelation 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
Revelation 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
Revelation 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
Because this man seems to have ruled in heaven, to have lived through quite some time on earth, then seems to NOT be at all and then seems to be again for a short time. I was wondering what HUMAN could pull off such a devilishly long life?
or are you speaking of some other 'man'?
Luke 16:19
New Living Translation
Jesus said, “There was a certain rich man who was splendidly clothed in purple and fine linen and who lived each day in luxury.
English Standard Version
“There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day.
Berean Literal Bible
And there was a certain rich man, and he was clothed in purple and fine linen, making good cheer in splendor every day.
King James Bible
There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
New King James Version
“There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day.
New American Standard Bible
“Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, enjoying himself in splendor every day.
When Jesus says THERE WAS, that always means THERE WAS. This IS a true story.
New Living Translation
Jesus said, “There was a certain rich man who was splendidly clothed in purple and fine linen and who lived each day in luxury.
English Standard Version
“There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day.
Berean Literal Bible
And there was a certain rich man, and he was clothed in purple and fine linen, making good cheer in splendor every day.
King James Bible
There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
New King James Version
“There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day.
New American Standard Bible
“Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, enjoying himself in splendor every day.
When Jesus says THERE WAS, that always means THERE WAS. This IS a true story.
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FreeGrace2 said:
Give me an example, if you have one.
OK, give me ane example.
OK, show me any "insult" I've used again anyone. Then show me where I've been "contentious".
I would like post # for anyone who follows this thread so they can see for themselves. And actually include the specific quote. Just identifying a post # to a long response to one of your long posts won't be enough.
So, I need the post # and actual quote if you have any to prove what you claim.
My approach has always been to ask for verses that SAY what the poster claims. That is exactly how the Bereans checked out Paul's preaching in Acts 17:11. I do the same.
I think anyone who read my post would instantly realize that they are CHALLENGES to YOU. You made FALSE CLAIMS and I am challenging you to prove them with actual evidence.
Dodger. I TOLD you how I was using the word. So get over it. "overly sentimental". And you are. You think ECT, which is biblical, is CRUEL.
You are inexcusable. I TOLD you how I was using the word.
No, you just FAIL to read what I post.
You have not only unwittingly ADMITTED that you are overly sentimental about unbelievers, you demonstrate your hypersensitive emotions by how person you take all this.
Oh, are you confused. Anyone who says "I don't need to prove my claims" PROVES that they don't have any evidence. That's just a cheap cop-out.
And regarding witnesses, your claims need to be listed so those who read this thread can see them.
Nice try, but your transference gimmick doesn't work. If you WON'T/CAN'T provide evidence for your claims, you just PROVE that you have none.
Oh really. "everything" huh? You got any proof for that ridiculous charge? You are just full of these childish retorts.
OK, I'm adding "mean and nasty things toward others" to my challenge list of things you NEED to prove.
What is really going on is that you ARE overyly hypersensitive and sentimental and you get your feelings hurt quite easily when someone disagrees with you and even goes so far as to tell you that you are wrong.
Such a vacuous comment, when you are in NO POSITION to judge me, violates the Bible. Believers are told not to judge others.
Well, there you go again. Judging where you have NO authority or right. You have no facts, only your raw emotions.
I use the Berean Bible study method, where I search the Scripture for verses that SAY what others, like you, say. And I don't find any such verses. That's why I ask you for verses, because I can't find any.
As to the Holy Spirit helping, do you even know HOW to obey the command to be filled with the Spirit from Eph 5:18? All commands are to be obeyed. So, how do you obey that specific command?
So many people who bring in the Holy Spirit can't answer that question.
Give me an example, if you have one.
OK, give me ane example.
OK, show me any "insult" I've used again anyone. Then show me where I've been "contentious".
I would like post # for anyone who follows this thread so they can see for themselves. And actually include the specific quote. Just identifying a post # to a long response to one of your long posts won't be enough.
So, I need the post # and actual quote if you have any to prove what you claim.
My approach has always been to ask for verses that SAY what the poster claims. That is exactly how the Bereans checked out Paul's preaching in Acts 17:11. I do the same.
I think anyone who read my post would instantly realize that they are CHALLENGES to YOU. You made FALSE CLAIMS and I am challenging you to prove them with actual evidence.
Dodger. I TOLD you how I was using the word. So get over it. "overly sentimental". And you are. You think ECT, which is biblical, is CRUEL.
You are inexcusable. I TOLD you how I was using the word.
No, you just FAIL to read what I post.
You have not only unwittingly ADMITTED that you are overly sentimental about unbelievers, you demonstrate your hypersensitive emotions by how person you take all this.
Oh, are you confused. Anyone who says "I don't need to prove my claims" PROVES that they don't have any evidence. That's just a cheap cop-out.
And regarding witnesses, your claims need to be listed so those who read this thread can see them.
Nice try, but your transference gimmick doesn't work. If you WON'T/CAN'T provide evidence for your claims, you just PROVE that you have none.
Oh really. "everything" huh? You got any proof for that ridiculous charge? You are just full of these childish retorts.
OK, I'm adding "mean and nasty things toward others" to my challenge list of things you NEED to prove.
What is really going on is that you ARE overyly hypersensitive and sentimental and you get your feelings hurt quite easily when someone disagrees with you and even goes so far as to tell you that you are wrong.
Such a vacuous comment, when you are in NO POSITION to judge me, violates the Bible. Believers are told not to judge others.
Well, there you go again. Judging where you have NO authority or right. You have no facts, only your raw emotions.
I use the Berean Bible study method, where I search the Scripture for verses that SAY what others, like you, say. And I don't find any such verses. That's why I ask you for verses, because I can't find any.
As to the Holy Spirit helping, do you even know HOW to obey the command to be filled with the Spirit from Eph 5:18? All commands are to be obeyed. So, how do you obey that specific command?
So many people who bring in the Holy Spirit can't answer that question.
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FreeGrace2 said:
Of course you wouldn't. It challenges your claims. It's not a parable. The account of Lazarus and a rich man wasn't introduced as a parable, as all of Jesus' parables were. Further, Jesus never used proper names in His parables, much LESS an actual person. Yet, in the account Jesus mentioned Abraham having a conversation with the rich man and Jesus named the poor man. No parable has such features.
But, like the SDA, you gotta reject the reality of the account. However, Jesus gave us a glimpse of the afterlife for believers and unbelievers, before His resurrection.
You really aren't getting any of this. What Jesus told us isn't a parable, for the reasons I already noted.
Of course the Bible is in complete harmony. What isn't in harmony with the Bible are your opinions and views about unblelievers when they are cast into the LOF.
Of course you wouldn't. It challenges your claims. It's not a parable. The account of Lazarus and a rich man wasn't introduced as a parable, as all of Jesus' parables were. Further, Jesus never used proper names in His parables, much LESS an actual person. Yet, in the account Jesus mentioned Abraham having a conversation with the rich man and Jesus named the poor man. No parable has such features.
But, like the SDA, you gotta reject the reality of the account. However, Jesus gave us a glimpse of the afterlife for believers and unbelievers, before His resurrection.
You really aren't getting any of this. What Jesus told us isn't a parable, for the reasons I already noted.
Of course the Bible is in complete harmony. What isn't in harmony with the Bible are your opinions and views about unblelievers when they are cast into the LOF.
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I guess you never read anything about Paul's ministry and evangelism. He certainly disagrees with you.
Acts 9:22 - Yet Saul grew more and more powerful and baffled the Jews living in Damascus by proving that Jesus is the Messiah.
Acts 17- 2 As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead. “This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Messiah,” he said.
Acts 18:5 - When Silas and Timothy came from Macedonia, Paul devoted himself exclusively to preaching, testifying to the Jews that Jesus was the Messiah.
Acts 18:28 - For he vigorously refuted his Jewish opponents in public debate, proving from the Scriptures that Jesus was the Messiah.
Acts 26- 22 But God has helped me to this very day; so I stand here and testify to small and great alike. I am saying nothing beyond what the prophets and Moses said would happen — 23 that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.”
The way of salvation in the OT was to believe in the promised Messiah, who is Jesus. That is what Paul preached. He never said the Law ever saved anyone.
lol. You don't have any point.
Paul strongly disagrees with your opinions.
I already explained it. Jesus' point was to contrast how they lived during their lives. It wasn't about how they got to where they were.
It is clear from where the poor man was that he believed what Paul preached about the Messiah, and he went to Paradise or Abraham's bosom.
Luke 16- 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
And this is what Jesus told some unbelieving Jews about how THEY viewed the OT:
John 5-
39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me,
40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
Very clearly, Jesus was telling them that the Law doesn't save. And then He pointed out that the OT testified about Jesus, just as Paul preached everywhere he went.
v.40 explains why they didn't "have life". They wouldn't believe in Him.
You have a lot to learn, grasshopper.
Acts 9:22 - Yet Saul grew more and more powerful and baffled the Jews living in Damascus by proving that Jesus is the Messiah.
Acts 17- 2 As was his custom, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that the Messiah had to suffer and rise from the dead. “This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Messiah,” he said.
Acts 18:5 - When Silas and Timothy came from Macedonia, Paul devoted himself exclusively to preaching, testifying to the Jews that Jesus was the Messiah.
Acts 18:28 - For he vigorously refuted his Jewish opponents in public debate, proving from the Scriptures that Jesus was the Messiah.
Acts 26- 22 But God has helped me to this very day; so I stand here and testify to small and great alike. I am saying nothing beyond what the prophets and Moses said would happen — 23 that the Messiah would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would bring the message of light to his own people and to the Gentiles.”
The way of salvation in the OT was to believe in the promised Messiah, who is Jesus. That is what Paul preached. He never said the Law ever saved anyone.
lol. You don't have any point.
Paul strongly disagrees with your opinions.
I already explained it. Jesus' point was to contrast how they lived during their lives. It wasn't about how they got to where they were.
It is clear from where the poor man was that he believed what Paul preached about the Messiah, and he went to Paradise or Abraham's bosom.
Luke 16- 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
And this is what Jesus told some unbelieving Jews about how THEY viewed the OT:
John 5-
39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me,
40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
Very clearly, Jesus was telling them that the Law doesn't save. And then He pointed out that the OT testified about Jesus, just as Paul preached everywhere he went.
v.40 explains why they didn't "have life". They wouldn't believe in Him.
You have a lot to learn, grasshopper.
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FreeGrace2 said:
This isn't debatable. 2 human beings are cast alive into the LOF.
The beast and the FP are both humans.
Huh? The "red dragon" in heaven isn't a human. It is the devil himself.
Obviously.
No that is another of your errors. The red dragon is Satan.
Is there a point to all this?
This isn't debatable. 2 human beings are cast alive into the LOF.
The beast and the FP are both humans.
Huh? The "red dragon" in heaven isn't a human. It is the devil himself.
Obviously.
No that is another of your errors. The red dragon is Satan.
Is there a point to all this?