Should you say, 'Homosexuality is a Sin.'

[Bluesproverb]

That's probably why it's considered a crime to rape ("force") another that carries the death penalty. To justify the sin in the name of compassion as many denominations do, is not
😄

The vet I worked for had 3 ladies working for him. Guess who got chosen to go out to buy feminine hygiene products that we used for ear crops on dobies?
Yup. The one guy in the office.
That was back before it was "cool" and "brave" to be a guy who could chest feed and give birth. ,😄

🤣

He honorably and proudly served his country. Then he shyly bought Kotex for Dobermans.
😆

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

I've heard preachers preach on the sin of homosexuality. Some might even say homosexuals are going to Hell, gays are going to Hell, lesbians are going to Hell, etc.

When I grew up, the way 'homosexual', 'gay', etc. was used was to refer to people who did 'gay stuff'-- meaning sexual acts. So I thought.

It turns out based on the original meaning of the word and the way it is used in academia, a homosexual is someone attracted to the same sex. Now suppose you are a young person and you've never done any 'gay stuff', but you found yourself attracted to the same sex. Then you go to church, and you hear someone preach that if you have same-sex attraction, you are a sinner and you are going to Hell.

The sins that homosexuals commit that are related to homosexuality are things like actually performing same-sex sexual acts, and looking with lust. Having attraction for the same sex is a bad thing to have to deal with. But can't someone who struggles with this still be a Christian and just resist temptation?

Many of us men are attracted to beautiful women. Especially when we are/were young, a beautiful scantily clad woman might be a bit of an eye magnet for the flesh, but you can choose to avert your eyes and discipline your mind and not sin. There are ads on magazines and various other type of media. There is a difference between what we find attractive and the acts we commit. If a woman is attractive to a man, that doesn't mean he has committed fornication or adultery with her or that he has looked at her with lust.

And if a man struggles with same-sex attraction, that doesn't mean he constantly goes around sinning. At least with the Gen-Y and Gen-Z generations, and probably most of X now, and in academia, and certainly with LGBTI folks, in the US, 'gay', 'homosexual', and 'lesbian' refer to 'orientation'-- not what they do with their sex lives. Some Fundamentalists preachers who say 'Homosexuals are going to Hell' do no realize that what they are saying from the perspective of the listener is if you find yourself attracted to the same sex, even if you don't act on it, you are going to Hell. It sounds rather hopeless.

We do need to combat the ideas associated with 'orientation' that these types of inclinations or lusts are permanent problems. LBGT folks think of their sexual inclinations and propensities to be attracted as a big part of their identity. But the Bible tells Christians, to "reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Romans 6:11.)

Christian men who are attracted to women do not introduce themselves as "I am a Christian who has the propensity to fornicate with women", and so Christian men who struggle with same-sex attraction should not say, "I am a gay Christian." We should reckon ourselves dead to sin, and alive to God, and "make no provision for the flesh to fulfill the lusts thereof."

Some people with same-sex attraction who become Christians may have to constantly struggle against it and overcome it for years, like some men have to tame their eyes. Others may be delivered from the temptation and not worry about it. Marriage between a man and a woman is a Biblical remedy for decreasing the propensity to be tempted by sexual lust.

I used to hear pastors say that marriage keeps single men from becoming homosexual. I will be as kind as possible in this mixed audience, but he was either bisexuality tempted OR just constipated about that issue.

I am single and must admit that I have no more attraction to guys than I do to a bloated dog tick on the ear of a hound.
Maybe I'm the exception, but that's why I asked the question in the previous post.

Marriage is doubtless a remedy for reducing lust of the opposite sex IF the person is not prone to promiscuity. However temptation to commit fornication, normal kind and adultery will be present in the right circumstances.
Those are COMMON TO MAN.
I'm not speaking for anyone except for normal or what they call "straight" men.
When guys go hunting or fishing they would rather smooch a bass bait than their buddy.

"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: "
I Corinthians 10

 

[presidente]

Let me assist your understanding. Osteen doesn't speak to or against the sin of homosexuality either. 😊📖🕊️
I hope that helps your understanding.💕🕊️

That's really out of the blue.

Also, men doing sexual stuff with each other is sinful. Yielding to lust is sinful, so homosexual porn is off limits just like porn that has the opposite sex.

It's a bad thing if a man can be attracted to other men, but men who have this propensity can become Christians and abstain from sin.

But the way you brought in Joel Osteen was a bit random and a potential derail.

 

[presidente]

1. "same-sex attraction" is a term that is PC and differs from the word of God which calls it lust and perversion

There are lusts in the flesh that we are not to yield to. 'Lust' can be for material goods, or sexual issues. And for most men, the temptation to lust is toward women. For some subset of men it is directed at men, and some people go for both. Then there are people with yet other weird attractions. There is something warped about the propensity to be sexually tempted by the same sex, but when someone with this becomes a Christian, they can live without falling into sin, whether they have to struggle a bit to avoid temptation or the whole propensity to be tempted by it goes away.

I don't know why you think 'same-sex attraction' is a PC term. I've heard Christians use it when they don't want to throw up the cloud of confusion that comes with the word 'homosexual.' The LGBT folks have loaded that word down with their idea of 'orientation.' Then there are Fundamentalists and older folks who thinks 'homosexual' means sex acts, but that is not what the LGBT people think.

 

[Bluesproverb]

That's really out of the blue.

Also, men doing sexual stuff with each other is sinful. Yielding to lust is sinful, so homosexual porn is off limits just like porn that has the opposite sex.

It's a bad thing if a man can be attracted to other men, but men who have this propensity can become Christians and abstain from sin.

But the way you brought in Joel Osteen was a bit random and a potential derail.

No it wasn't. Osteen is a pastor who doesn't preach about homosexuality.
Perfectly in line with your OP.

 

[Bluesproverb]

I used to hear pastors say that marriage keeps single men from becoming homosexual. I will be as kind as possible in this mixed audience, but he was either bisexuality tempted OR just constipated about that issue.

I am single and must admit that I have no more attraction to guys than I do to a bloated dog tick on the ear of a hound.
Maybe I'm the exception, but that's why I asked the question in the previous post.

Marriage is doubtless a remedy for reducing lust of the opposite sex IF the person is not prone to promiscuity. However temptation to commit fornication, normal kind and adultery will be present in the right circumstances.
Those are COMMON TO MAN.
I'm not speaking for anyone except for normal or what they call "straight" men.
When guys go hunting or fishing they would rather smooch a bass bait than their buddy.

"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: "
I Corinthians 10

I'd say such a pastor as those you described were projecting upon others their own condition.

Like you, when I was single I had no desire for the same sex.

It's just a very bad sermon for any pastor to give voice to.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Society says homosexuality is something an individual is born with when asking if it's that or a choice. The reason is because then the individual is not responsible for their behavior. It can't be a sin if they're born with it. However, identical twins are not both gay. So the DNA is not responsible. You could say they're prone to the behavior like alcoholism.

I wouldn't lean too far right or left with this. A lot of Christians are angry bc the LGBTQ+ movement has taken over and are actually taking away rights of citizens now with their propaganda and redefining words, etc. It makes a lot of people angry, rightfully so. The pastor you were listening to is only human so he's probably going by his emotions when he says "they go to h***" particularly if they are only being tempted at the time. That's a bold statement for anyone to make. That said, God calls homosexuality a sin of course. More than that really if we're being truthful.

On the flip side there are people trying to change from their sin of homosexuality. There's a lot of anger from people even in that bc going from men to women cause a lot of diseases that then go to the heterosexual community or even infants with aids. So there's really no easy solution and people will judge no matter what. It's a terrible thing to go through. The people I know who are transgender and homosexual had a terrible upbringing. No parents or mother was a prostitute for the one. I guess you could say that about anything but it does make you wonder, if I was raised like that maybe I would be worse or even a murderer. While this isn't always the case. It is very common for there to be childhood abuse in the gay community, particularly if a boy is raped by a man. That also leads to pedophiles.... which is often used as the + in the LGBTQ movement if you didn't know. There's a lot they don't even agree on and it's creating a lot of pain overall.

I understand that children are a common target of some of the LBTPQ+ community.
The mayor of San Francisco and The owner of the Hormel company praised NAMBLA for what they stood for as they marched down the street with their float during a parade.

Jesus was not excusing all sin when he addressed the woman taken in adultery.
In fact, He said concerning those who would do some unmentionable to little ones...

" It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones."

 

[presidente]

What exactly is your point? All sinners -- including homosexuals -- are on their way to Hell. Until and unless they obey the Gospel and are saved by grace. So if a sexual pervert gets saved, he or she repents of their sins and turns away from them. Then the issue of "struggle" does not even arise. The Bible says "Sin shall NOT have dominion over you".

According to the book of Hebrews, there is a struggle against sin.
Hebrews 12:4
In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.
(ESV)

I assume by your handle that you are male. I don't know how old you are, but when you were a young single man, if a beautiful woman in a bikini walked by, did you have no urge at all to look a bit? You didn't have to consciously avert your eyes at all? There was no struggle at all?

The very serious problem which the Western world is facing today -- particularly very young children and teenagers -- is the evil LBGTQ agenda to convert everyone into either a homosexual or a transgender person. They want a drag queen messing up kids in every Kindergarten. This is purely demonic evil, and should be called out and preached against.

That's the way I think about it, also. But when you get people who either have attraction to the same sex or even act on it, then hear the gospel and repent, but still can be tempted, do you tell them they are going to Hell because it is possible for them to feel tempted in this area?

 

[presidente]

I used to hear pastors say that marriage keeps single men from becoming homosexual. I will be as kind as possible in this mixed audience, but he was either bisexuality tempted OR just constipated about that issue.

Maybe he meant marriage can help keep a man from becoming a homosexual... along with a fornicator, or adulterer, because he has a sexual outlet. He could have been totally non-homosexual himself and figured marriage would help those who are tempted by it.

The Bible gives two choices, marriage or celibacy. If a man is tempted by other men, marriage to a woman is still the only alternative to celibacy that is allowed.

I am single and must admit that I have no more attraction to guys than I do to a bloated dog tick on the ear of a hound.

I don't get it either. I don't see what's attractive or even good-looking about other men. I don't see the appeal. Being attracted to men is for women. The psychological literature gives a lack of connection or feeling of acceptance from one's father as a reason for boys eroticizing male attention. I don't know if that is the reason for it.

But Jesus said He did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance. The issue I am talking about is if there is a man who could be attracted to other men, he can be saved and just not give into temptation, even if the ability to be attracted to other men is still there. That propensity to be attracted to other men is what 'homosexuall' originally meant when the term was coined in German, and what it means not in academic literature, and what it generally means.

Marriage is doubtless a remedy for reducing lust of the opposite sex IF the person is not prone to promiscuity.

Where do you get that 'if' part. I Corinthians 7 says to avoid fornication to let every man have his own wife and let every woman have her own husband.

However temptation to commit fornication, normal kind and adultery will be present in the right circumstances.
Those are COMMON TO MAN.
I'm not speaking for anyone except for normal or what they call "straight" men.
When guys go hunting or fishing they would rather smooch a bass bait than their buddy.

"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: "
I Corinthians 10

I think you are eisegeting your own ideas about what 'common to man' means here. Paul was writing to Greeks from idolatrous backgrounds, and gay perversion and their own version of transgenderism (effeminate men dressed like women, some of them who'd become eunuchs) existed in their society. Philo addressed this stuff. In chapter 6, some of them had had same-sex sex before they were Christians.

 

[Bluesproverb]

I understand that children are a common target of some of the LBTPQ+ community.
The mayor of San Francisco and The Amen. of the Hormel company praised NAMBLA for what they stood for as they marched down the street with their float during a parade.

Jesus was not excusing all sin when he addressed the woman taken in adultery.
In fact, He said concerning those who would do some unmentionable to little ones...

" It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones."

Amen.

NAMBLA was permitted a float during a parade? Gay pride parade,right?

That says a lot about the owner of Hormel too. He praised NAMBLA for what they stand for?

Thompson silhouette's?🤔 😇

 

[Bluesproverb]

Maybe he meant marriage can help keep a man from becoming a homosexual... along with a fornicator, or adulterer, because he has a sexual outlet. ...

If that were the pastors sermon meaning, they were still wrong.

 

[Nehemiah6]

All the more reason for homeschooling.

Every parent should have pulled every child out of public school and found an alternative. Homeschooling is the best. And a group of parents working together on this could easily handle it.

 

[TheNarrowPath]

Isnt that just playing semantics? Yes you should call homosexuality a sin because it falls outside a marriage between a man and a woman.

 

[Adstar]

I've heard preachers preach on the sin of homosexuality. Some might even say homosexuals are going to Hell, gays are going to Hell, lesbians are going to Hell, etc.

When I grew up, the way 'homosexual', 'gay', etc. was used was to refer to people who did 'gay stuff'-- meaning sexual acts. So I thought.

It turns out based on the original meaning of the word and the way it is used in academia, a homosexual is someone attracted to the same sex. Now suppose you are a young person and you've never done any 'gay stuff', but you found yourself attracted to the same sex. Then you go to church, and you hear someone preach that if you have same-sex attraction, you are a sinner and you are going to Hell.

The sins that homosexuals commit that are related to homosexuality are things like actually performing same-sex sexual acts, and looking with lust. Having attraction for the same sex is a bad thing to have to deal with. But can't someone who struggles with this still be a Christian and just resist temptation?

Many of us men are attracted to beautiful women. Especially when we are/were young, a beautiful scantily clad woman might be a bit of an eye magnet for the flesh, but you can choose to avert your eyes and discipline your mind and not sin. There are ads on magazines and various other type of media. There is a difference between what we find attractive and the acts we commit. If a woman is attractive to a man, that doesn't mean he has committed fornication or adultery with her or that he has looked at her with lust.

And if a man struggles with same-sex attraction, that doesn't mean he constantly goes around sinning. At least with the Gen-Y and Gen-Z generations, and probably most of X now, and in academia, and certainly with LGBTI folks, in the US, 'gay', 'homosexual', and 'lesbian' refer to 'orientation'-- not what they do with their sex lives. Some Fundamentalists preachers who say 'Homosexuals are going to Hell' do no realize that what they are saying from the perspective of the listener is if you find yourself attracted to the same sex, even if you don't act on it, you are going to Hell. It sounds rather hopeless.

We do need to combat the ideas associated with 'orientation' that these types of inclinations or lusts are permanent problems. LBGT folks think of their sexual inclinations and propensities to be attracted as a big part of their identity. But the Bible tells Christians, to "reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Romans 6:11.)

Christian men who are attracted to women do not introduce themselves as "I am a Christian who has the propensity to fornicate with women", and so Christian men who struggle with same-sex attraction should not say, "I am a gay Christian." We should reckon ourselves dead to sin, and alive to God, and "make no provision for the flesh to fulfill the lusts thereof."

Some people with same-sex attraction who become Christians may have to constantly struggle against it and overcome it for years, like some men have to tame their eyes. Others may be delivered from the temptation and not worry about it. Marriage between a man and a woman is a Biblical remedy for decreasing the propensity to be tempted by sexual lust.

Homosexuality is a sin.. But Christianity 101 is that Jesus secured atonement for all sinners on the cross and the only sin Jesus said would never have forgiveness was Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.. So if a person is afflicted by same sex sexual attraction and Believes Jesus acknowledges their need for His Atonement and trusts in His atonement their sins will be covered by the blood of The LORD Jesus on the day of judgement..

But those who support gay pride.. who refuse to acknowledge it as a sin but promote it with pride they are not acknowledging their sin to the Lord and thus they are not accepting the gift of the Atonement of Jesus to cover their sin and therefore on the day of judgement they shall not be covered by the atonement of The LORD Jesus..

Repentant Sinners will be forgiven through Jesus..
Willful Sinners will not be forgiven though Jesus..

 

[Adstar]

I am not sure how anyone could successfully argue this since we are all born with the
sin nature Can it really be an argument when the natural man is enmity to God?

Yes everyone born on earth has been born with a sin nature.. And that's why each and every one of us needs the Atonement of The LORD Jesus.. People trying to justify their sin as not being sin because they where born with a tendency to sin are sabotaging their salvation and the salvation of anyone who is deceived by them into believing that being born with a sin nature makes sin no longer sin..

 

[pottersclay]

The exploitation of sexual lust as a kind of love in any manner out side of marriage and male and female should be addressed.
Condoning love is love no matter how its expressed is the focal point.
To teach such abomination to others as normal and accepted is where the sin lies.
If there were such a thing as a heterosexual parade displaying in the same manner as the pride parade it would be considered lewed and offensive and against the law.
Some people are just wired wrong. Some from a trauma, others from a chemical imbalance and yes others that are demonic.
Sexual lust that has developed into a perversion is not from the Lord.
A willingness to entertain, act out and except this as normal is the sin.

 

[presidente]

Homosexuality is a sin..

So lets say a homosexual man repents and becomes a Christian. He finds that he can still be attracted to other men, but doesn't act on it. Is that a sin... being attracted to other men? Is that what you are saying?

What about women who can tell if another woman is pretty. Is that a sin?

 

[Adstar]

So lets say a homosexual man repents and becomes a Christian. He finds that he can still be attracted to other men, but doesn't act on it. Is that a sin... being attracted to other men? Is that what you are saying?

Yes.. Jesus said if i even look at a woman to lust for her then i am guilty of adultery.. A sin that needs the Atonement of the LORD Jesus just as much as committing actual physical adultery..

(Matthew 5:27-28) "¶ Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: {28} But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."

So the same goes for a homosexual who looks at another man and lusts for him.. Same goes for all kinds of other sexual types..

What about women who can tell if another woman is pretty. Is that a sin?

Thinking that another woman is pretty is not the same as lusting over her and wanting to engage in lesbian sex.. If she is lusting over another woman then yes it is sin..

Christianity is not designed to create sinless people in this world in these bodies..

Christianity is the Way God has made for sinners to have their transgressions Atoned for.. Christianity is Gods way to justifiably forgive sinners.. Sinners who cannot be righteous in the flesh but can acknowledge that the Will of God is just and good and that anything they have done against the will of God is sin and needs the Atonement of the LORD Jesus..

There seems to be a lot of people who call themselves Christians who believe their religion is all about striving to achieve a sinlessness in this life to justify their entry into Gods Perfect Eternal existence.. That's Works based religion and Not Christianity.. That's an impossible standard that no human one can achieve because we still carry with us the sin nature.. And that's why salvation is a gift from God to those who love the Word of God.. Saving people with the right spirit.. Who are righteous in Spirit..

 

[presidente]

Yes.. Jesus said if i even look at a woman to lust for her then i am guilty of adultery.. A sin that needs the Atonement of the LORD Jesus just as much as committing actual physical adultery..

(Matthew 5:27-28) "¶ Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: {28} But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."

So the same goes for a homosexual who looks at another man and lusts for him.. Same goes for all kinds of other sexual types..

How is your answer 'yes' to my question. There are probably some women who walk by, and you just aren't going to look at them with lust. If you have a grandmother whose aged, or someone else's grandmother. There are women you just aren't going to be attracted to.

But lets say a woman with supermodel good looks walks by in a bikini. She is attractive to you. Does that mean you looked at her with lust?

If any man walks by, I am not going to be attracted to him. If he's young, if he's muscular. They don't appeal to me. I suspect that is the case with most men. But some men might find them attractive, but they can choose not to look with lust.

The men who find other men attractive are 'homosexual' according to how the term is used. Do you think their propensity to be attractive is looking with lust.

If a pretty girl walks by, did you automatically lust after her, whether you wanted to or not?

The Matthew passage says if a man looks at a woman ___in order___ to lust after her, he has committed adultery with her already in his heart. There is the yielding of the members to sin, involved, to borrow Paul's terminology from Romans 6.

Thinking that another woman is pretty is not the same as lusting over her and wanting to engage in lesbian sex.. If she is lusting over another woman then yes it is sin..

What if the woman is not only pretty, but someone who could appeal to your desires, from a physical perspective? If she walks in the room, do you have no choice.... you just lusted? Or can you choose not to look with lust?

Christianity is not designed to create sinless people in this world in these bodies..

I Corinthians 10 says that with every temptation there is a way of escape, 'that ye may be able to bear it.' Jesus said that He that commits sin is the servant of sin. Paul says do not yield your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin. Peter quotes the Old Testament, "Be ye holy, for I am holy."

There seems to be a lot of people who call themselves Christians who believe their religion is all about striving to achieve a sinlessness in this life to justify their entry into Gods Perfect Eternal existence..

Some Christians believe that as sin reigned unto death, grace reigns through righteousness. (Romans 5:21.

It seems like you have this attitude that every Christian is just going to sin and it doesn't matter that much because they can be forgiven. Is that an accurate understanding?

 

[Hazelelponi]

I've heard preachers preach on the sin of homosexuality. Some might even say homosexuals are going to Hell, gays are going to Hell, lesbians are going to Hell, etc.

When I grew up, the way 'homosexual', 'gay', etc. was used was to refer to people who did 'gay stuff'-- meaning sexual acts. So I thought.

It turns out based on the original meaning of the word and the way it is used in academia, a homosexual is someone attracted to the same sex. Now suppose you are a young person and you've never done any 'gay stuff', but you found yourself attracted to the same sex. Then you go to church, and you hear someone preach that if you have same-sex attraction, you are a sinner and you are going to Hell.

The sins that homosexuals commit that are related to homosexuality are things like actually performing same-sex sexual acts, and looking with lust. Having attraction for the same sex is a bad thing to have to deal with. But can't someone who struggles with this still be a Christian and just resist temptation?

Many of us men are attracted to beautiful women. Especially when we are/were young, a beautiful scantily clad woman might be a bit of an eye magnet for the flesh, but you can choose to avert your eyes and discipline your mind and not sin. There are ads on magazines and various other type of media. There is a difference between what we find attractive and the acts we commit. If a woman is attractive to a man, that doesn't mean he has committed fornication or adultery with her or that he has looked at her with lust.

And if a man struggles with same-sex attraction, that doesn't mean he constantly goes around sinning. At least with the Gen-Y and Gen-Z generations, and probably most of X now, and in academia, and certainly with LGBTI folks, in the US, 'gay', 'homosexual', and 'lesbian' refer to 'orientation'-- not what they do with their sex lives. Some Fundamentalists preachers who say 'Homosexuals are going to Hell' do no realize that what they are saying from the perspective of the listener is if you find yourself attracted to the same sex, even if you don't act on it, you are going to Hell. It sounds rather hopeless.

We do need to combat the ideas associated with 'orientation' that these types of inclinations or lusts are permanent problems. LBGT folks think of their sexual inclinations and propensities to be attracted as a big part of their identity. But the Bible tells Christians, to "reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Romans 6:11.)

Christian men who are attracted to women do not introduce themselves as "I am a Christian who has the propensity to fornicate with women", and so Christian men who struggle with same-sex attraction should not say, "I am a gay Christian." We should reckon ourselves dead to sin, and alive to God, and "make no provision for the flesh to fulfill the lusts thereof."

Some people with same-sex attraction who become Christians may have to constantly struggle against it and overcome it for years, like some men have to tame their eyes. Others may be delivered from the temptation and not worry about it. Marriage between a man and a woman is a Biblical remedy for decreasing the propensity to be tempted by sexual lust.

When we speak we have to speak to issues using words as they are commonly used, and clarifying our own.

Homosexuals as the term is commonly used, refers to those who actively engage in same-sex relationships, not merely those who find themselves attracted to the opposite sex and thereby abstain from any relationships outside of friendships or familial. Those people we would simply refer to as celebate (no one honestly cares why they choose celebacy)

And yes, we call it sin because God does.