And the SMOKE of their torment...No eternal damnation for anyone, except the Devil

[Runningman]

First the Garden of Eden is not heaven, and was not heaven. It was a garden a special place God prepaired for The Man Adam God Created on the 8th day the day after God rested. Then some time later God took the rib (curve I thank DNA from Adam ) to make woman that Adam named Eve. Can you tell me was that on the same day God created Adam which was after the day of rest or was it sometime later.





How can you say God does not dignify prayers.


Revelation 5:8


Berean Literal Bible
And when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls being full of incenses, which are the prayers of the saints.

King James Bible
And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.





Revelation 8:3


Berean Literal Bible
And another angel having a golden censer came and stood at the altar, and much incense was given to him, that he will offer it with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne.

King James Bible
And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.



Verse 4.


Berean Literal Bible
And the smoke of the incense went up before God, with the prayers of the saints, out of the hand of the angel.

King James Bible
And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.





Psalms 56:8


Berean Study Bible
You have taken account of my wanderings. Put my tears in Your bottle—are they not in Your book?

King James Bible
Thou tellest my wanderings: put thou my tears into thy bottle:are they not in thy book?

I’m basing my understanding of the way God considers prayers based on this:

Isaiah 59:1,2
1Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
2But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

First it says God’s ears aren’t so heavy that they can’t hear, then it says God will not hear. That’s why I think it’s nuanced. God can hear and does, but sin creates a kind of barrier whereby God may chose to either not hear a person or may simply not “hear” them in the sense that He’s interested.

I’m thinking I can turn the radio on and hear it while I work, but I’m not really paying attention. The talking people on the radio effectually become just noise.

 

[kleronomos]

Eternal separation from God, shared with a TRUCKLOAD of lousy neighbors.

One of the very best blessings in this world is GOOD NEIGHBORS.

 

[Jackson123]

What does this mean to you?
Psalm 37:20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.



What about this?
Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death,



What about ?
neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.


Ecclesiastes 1:11 There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.



Isaiah 65:16 That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.


This?


Psalm 105:8 He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations.







Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Does this say they are PASSED AWAY or NOT?

HOW IS IT POSSIBLE for the Lake of Fire, which takes place BEFORE the New Heaven and the New earth MAKING IT part of the 'FORMER THINGS' to CONTINUE ON?

Are YOUR thoughts making void the words of God or are they not?

HOW ABOUT A 2ND WITNESS in WHAT IS WRITTEN? Not that we need one since NO ONE can produce anything written that says there is ETERNAL consciousness of punishment anyhow but


Isaiah 65:12 Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.

Isaiah 65:13 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, my servants shall eat, but ye shall be hungry: behold, my servants shall drink, but ye shall be thirsty: behold, my servants shall rejoice, but ye shall be ashamed:

Isaiah 65:14 Behold, my servants shall sing for joy of heart, but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall howl for vexation of spirit.

Isaiah 65:15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:

Isaiah 65:16 That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth;

because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

SOMETHING HAS TO GIVE.

We can't have people crying in torment forever and ever AND NOT COMING INTO THE MIND OF GOD.

i have problem with my tablet, I can reply part of the posting

let me show you what perish is quote from Oxford dictionary


suffer death, typically in a violent, sudden, or untimely way.

is not cease to exist

i you go to hospital you know death not disappear the body still there and people put formalin, not cease to exist, than bible say about eternal punishment Matt 25:46

 

[FreeGrace2]

Daniel 12 doesn’t say that those who are resurrected to shame and everlasting contempt will be the one’s experiencing those feelings.

Huh? You really think unbelievers who are resurrected to face the LOF won't experience "eternal contempt"?? Then who does Dan 12:2 refer to?

But the verse is very clear, even though you claim otherwise. Those who will be resurrected to shame and contempt ARE the ones who will experience those feelings. Obviously. You have no excuse for your blindness.

I’ve gone over this a few times before, but I’ll expound on it again.

Daniel 12 talks about the two resurrections. As we know, the resurrection occurs before the New Heavens and New Earth where only righteousness dwells according to Peter.

If you’ll look at Isaiah 66, you’ll see this state of contempt explained more in detail.

Isaiah 66:22-24
22For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
24And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

The word abhorring used in verse 24 is the same word used in Daniel 12:2. As you can see, their bodies are lifeless carcasses who don’t feel anything.

Everyone else knows the unbelievers' bodies will be consumed in the LOF. So we're NOT talking about bodies feeling anything.

It is obvious that Dean 12:2 speaks of souls experiencing shame and contempt, for eternity.

They’re being burned to ashes and consumed by worms.

Physical bodies.

They aren’t alive experiencing anything, but rather they will be an abhorring to all flesh who are alive i.e. the righteous people who are alive in the New Heavens and New Earth.

This is just a twist of what Dan 12:2 very plainly SAYS. Isa 66 doesn't twist Dan 12:2.

Now back to Daniel 12. Post resurrection, they’ll have a second death in the lake of fire. Isaiah 66 puts that in perspective. The people who will feel shame and contempt are those who are not in the lake of fire, i.e., the saved people.

Why will saved people feel that? Please explain.

The Bible says there will be NO MORE tears. Don't you believe the Bible?

That’s why context and studying matters. I recommend you really dig deeper into the Bible to form a solid understanding rather than half-baked, recycled, and continually refuted talking points.

You have no excuse for your blindness. You have seen the evidence. And rejected it.

 

[Runningman]

Huh? You really think unbelievers who are resurrected to face the LOF won't experience "eternal contempt"?? Then who does Dan 12:2 refer to?

But the verse is very clear, even though you claim otherwise. Those who will be resurrected to shame and contempt ARE the ones who will experience those feelings. Obviously. You have no excuse for your blindness.


Everyone else knows the unbelievers' bodies will be consumed in the LOF. So we're NOT talking about bodies feeling anything.

It is obvious that Dean 12:2 speaks of souls experiencing shame and contempt, for eternity.


Physical bodies.


This is just a twist of what Dan 12:2 very plainly SAYS. Isa 66 doesn't twist Dan 12:2.


Why will saved people feel that? Please explain.

Isaiah 66 confirms that the carcasses will be an abhorrence to all flesh. Their soul doesn’t live on forever in hell, that’s unscriptural. You’ve already spent several pages unable to prove that.

The Bible says there will be NO MORE tears. Don't you believe the Bible?

Yes I believe the Bible. No weeping, wailing, or gnashing teeth in eternal torment.

Do you believe the Bible?

You have no excuse for your blindness. You have seen the evidence. And rejected it.

You should fix yourself before you go trying teach others. Nothing you’re saying is rightly-divided Bible.

 

[kleronomos]

i have problem with my tablet, I can reply part of the posting

let me show you what perish is quote from Oxford dictionary


suffer death, typically in a violent, sudden, or untimely way.

is not cease to exist

i you go to hospital you know death not disappear the body still there and people put formalin, not cease to exist, than bible say about eternal punishment Matt 25:46

THE 1ST BODY goes back to dust 'formalin' or not. We are told NOT TO fear THAT death because we have ANOTHER BODY that will house our soul, made in the heavens.

Still, the first 'death, ' makes us CEASE TO BE AWARE, makes us CEASE LIVING in the flesh, NO PROBLEM.


What death are we told we ARE TO FEAR? The 2nd death because it is of THE SPIRITUAL BODY AND THE SOUL in the lake of fire.

What happens when there is NO MORE BODY AND NO MORE SOUL? There is NO MORE ANYTHING. For ALL OF ETERNITY never again will there ever be again. We cease to exist having become VAPOR/SMOKE. There is NO REST apart from God... So they have nor rest as THEY NO LONGER ARE. DISAPPEARED. No soul/spirit/body. It has been CONSUMED and turned into ASHES Go check out a pile of ashes and see how much it cares about ANYTHING. Is it being TORMENTED? NOT THAT IT WOULD MATTER BECAUSE IT KNOWS NOTHING.


When we are told to fear, WE BEST BE FEARING. We aren't going to be told to fear things that DON'T EXIST, so there MUST BE SOMETHING to fear.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


622. apollumi ►
Strong's Concordance
apollumi: to destroy, destroy utterly
Original Word: ἀπόλλυμι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apollumi
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ol'-loo-mee)
Definition: to destroy, destroy utterly
Usage: (a) I kill, destroy, (b) I lose, mid: I am perishing (the resultant death being viewed as certain).
HELPS Word-studies
622 apóllymi (from 575 /apó, "away from," which intensifies ollymi, "to destroy") – properly, fully destroy, cutting off entirely (note the force of the prefix, 575 /apó).

622 /apóllymi ("violently/completely perish") implies permanent (absolute) destruction, i.e. to cancel out (remove); "to die, with the implication of ruin and destruction" (L & N, 1, 23.106); cause to be lost (utterly perish) by experiencing a miserable end.

[This is also the meaning of 622 /apóllymi dating back to Homer (900 bc.]



So all these 'word' games CANT change the LAKE OF FIRE from being OF THE FORMER earth.


Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.



Matthew 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.




AND what you should find to be REALLY SCARRY is with what you judge is with what you are judged,
... to judge that it is ok for someone to suffer in torment for all of eternity....would be the absolute worst way to have GODS JUDGMENT coming at you and RIGHT NOW, that is what you are looking forward to....a word to the wise....

I STRIVE to be all about FORGIVENESS, and quick as possible. Lots and lots of MERCY. Bending over backwards to give the other cheek, give another coat if someone steals one, to let bygones be bygones, because THAT IS HOW I WANT GOD TO JUDGE me, when my time comes to be judged.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Daniel 12 doesn’t say that those who are resurrected to shame and everlasting contempt will be the one’s experiencing those feelings.

I’ve gone over this a few times before, but I’ll expound on it again.

Daniel 12 talks about the two resurrections. As we know, the resurrection occurs before the New Heavens and New Earth where only righteousness dwells according to Peter.

If you’ll look at Isaiah 66, you’ll see this state of contempt explained more in detail.

Isaiah 66:22-24
22For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
24And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

The word abhorring used in verse 24 is the same word used in Daniel 12:2. As you can see, their bodies are lifeless carcasses who don’t feel anything. They’re being burned to ashes and consumed by worms. They aren’t alive experiencing anything, but rather they will be an abhorring to all flesh who are alive i.e. the righteous people who are alive in the New Heavens and New Earth.

Now back to Daniel 12. Post resurrection, they’ll have a second death in the lake of fire. Isaiah 66 puts that in perspective. The people who will feel shame and contempt are those who are not in the lake of fire, i.e., the saved people.

That’s why context and studying matters. I recommend you really dig deeper into the Bible to form a solid understanding rather than half-baked, recycled, and continually refuted talking points.

You can lie to yourself with this eisegesis but don't expect others to buy it.
Scripture agrees. Daniel tells the same prophetic story as Jesus & John.

 

[Runningman]

THE 1ST BODY goes back to dust 'formalin' or not. We are told NOT TO fear THAT death because we have ANOTHER BODY that will house our soul, made in the heavens.

Still, the first 'death, ' makes us CEASE TO BE AWARE, makes us CEASE LIVING in the flesh, NO PROBLEM.


What death are we told we ARE TO FEAR? The 2nd death because it is of THE SPIRITUAL BODY AND THE SOUL in the lake of fire.

What happens when there is NO MORE BODY AND NO MORE SOUL? There is NO MORE ANYTHING. For ALL OF ETERNITY never again will there ever be again. We cease to exist having become VAPOR/SMOKE. There is NO REST apart from God... So they have nor rest as THEY NO LONGER ARE. DISAPPEARED. No soul/spirit/body. It has been CONSUMED and turned into ASHES Go check out a pile of ashes and see how much it cares about ANYTHING. Is it being TORMENTED? NOT THAT IT WOULD MATTER BECAUSE IT KNOWS NOTHING.


When we are told to fear, WE BEST BE FEARING. We aren't going to be told to fear things that DON'T EXIST, so there MUST BE SOMETHING to fear.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


622. apollumi ►
Strong's Concordance
apollumi: to destroy, destroy utterly
Original Word: ἀπόλλυμι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apollumi
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ol'-loo-mee)
Definition: to destroy, destroy utterly
Usage: (a) I kill, destroy, (b) I lose, mid: I am perishing (the resultant death being viewed as certain).
HELPS Word-studies
622 apóllymi (from 575 /apó, "away from," which intensifies ollymi, "to destroy") – properly, fully destroy, cutting off entirely (note the force of the prefix, 575 /apó).

622 /apóllymi ("violently/completely perish") implies permanent (absolute) destruction, i.e. to cancel out (remove); "to die, with the implication of ruin and destruction" (L & N, 1, 23.106); cause to be lost (utterly perish) by experiencing a miserable end.

[This is also the meaning of 622 /apóllymi dating back to Homer (900 bc.]



So all these 'word' games CANT change the LAKE OF FIRE from being OF THE FORMER earth.


Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.



Matthew 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.




AND what you should find to be REALLY SCARRY is with what you judge is with what you are judged,
... to judge that it is ok for someone to suffer in torment for all of eternity....would be the absolute worst way to have GODS JUDGMENT coming at you and RIGHT NOW, that is what you are looking forward to....a word to the wise....

I STRIVE to be all about FORGIVENESS, and quick as possible. Lots and lots of MERCY. Bending over backwards to give the other cheek, give another coat if someone steals one, to let bygones be bygones, because THAT IS HOW I WANT GOD TO JUDGE me, when my time comes to be judged.

Good points. I consider the words of Jesus to be the final say on the matter and He said to fear Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. What I see from Genesis to Revelation is complete harmony among all of the writers. All verses about the wicked refer to them as being destroyed. Provided that everyone in the Bible agrees the fate of the wicked is death/destruction then it seems clear that He who is able to destroy soul and body in hell is also willing.

Now to most people who just read the Bible and accept it for what it says, that’s quite clear, but most people seem to be indoctrinated into an alternative interpretation by none other than the church. The church is telling people about eternal torment, but Bible newbies don’t know any better or that it’s wrong.

Even I was deceived at first. I went to church and just believed all of these people who seemed to really know what they were talking about, but on this particular point it was the blind leading the blind. I didn’t really come around and see otherwise until many years later after not really reading the Bible at all for 10 years or so.

When I began opening the Bible again, God was putting things on my heart a lot. Many topics were flooding my heart and i knew I needed to seek these answers out. After 10 years I was able to begin again with a fresh perspective and guess what I saw when I finally began studying hell? There is no eternal torment. Thank God. I feel we are really fortunate to see clearly on this matter.

 

[Runningman]

You can lie to yourself with this eisegesis but don't expect others to buy it.
Scripture agrees. Daniel tells the same prophetic story as Jesus & John.

Your accusations are powerless here.

Now here’s what the Bible says again.

The prophets, Jesus, Paul, and John all agree that there is no immortality of the soul or body in hell. Only the righteous, those saved by Christ, get immortality. They also all agree that the wicked perish.

The resurrection to judgment that Jesus spoke of is the same resurrection that Daniel mentioned in Daniel 12:2; it occurs at the throne judgement in Revelation 20. After the resurrection and subsequent judgement, there’s the second death in fire followed by a New Heavens and New Earth per Rev.21. That’s exactly what Isaiah said in chapter 66. The contexts match.

The bodies that are causing the righteous to feel contempt or abhorrence are those of the unsaved. Their bodies are being burned to ashes and consumed by worms too. Jesus said fear Him who can destroy soul and body in hell.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Isaiah 66 confirms that the carcasses will be an abhorrence to all flesh.

So what? A "carcass" refers to a physical body. We're supposedly talking about souls. And there is NOTHING in Isa 66 about souls ceasing to exist. Nor anywhere else, for that matter.

Their soul doesn’t live on forever in hell, that’s unscriptural. You’ve already spent several pages unable to prove that.

I don't agree that a soul "lives on forever in hell". I've never said that, either. In fact NO ONE will continue on in hell. Hell or Hades is a holding tank for all the souls of unbelievers, awaiting the GWT judgment.

If you disagree with this, prove me wrong with clear verses.

Yes I believe the Bible. No weeping, wailing, or gnashing teeth in eternal torment.

Explain how a soul that has ceased to exist can be in "eternal torment". That ought to be interesting.

Do you believe the Bible?

A really dumb question. I believe it more than you have shown.

You should fix yourself before you go trying teach others. Nothing you’re saying is rightly-divided Bible.

You've already been refuted from Scripture. So nothing you say matters at this point.

But go ahead and explain how a soul that has ceased to exist will have "eternal torment". Can't wait for that one.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Your accusations are powerless here.

Now here’s what the Bible says again.

The prophets, Jesus, Paul, and John all agree that there is no immortality of the soul or body in hell.

Why don't you just give up on your "hell" business. That's never been the point. Hell (Hades) is just the holding tank for the souls of unbelievers, awaiting their call before the GWT judgment, just before they are cast into the LOF.

Only the righteous, those saved by Christ, get immortality.

I wonder why you seem so unable to grasp the fact that there isn't "immortality" when a soul experiences ETERNAL PUNISHMENT AND TORMENT. Let's use the biblical words: second death. Their bodies will die again, and their souls will experience eternal punishment and torment, and contempt.

The resurrection to judgment that Jesus spoke of is the same resurrection that Daniel mentioned in Daniel 12:2. After the resurrection and subsequent judgement, there’s the second death in fire. That’s exactly what Isaiah said in chapter 66.

We all agree on that. The second death is the physical body dying again.

The bodies that are causing the righteous to feel contempt or abhorrence are those of the unsaved.

Go ahead and misread again and again. But Dan 12:2 is too clear for such horrible eisegesis.

Their bodies are being burned to ashes and consumed by worms too. Jesus said fear Him who can destroy soul and body in hell.

Again, the words "can" and "will" aren't the same in any way.

You have no authority to equalize them.

 

[kleronomos]

It is clearly seen OLAM doesn't mean for ever and ever AS we think, but is OF A DURATION, A TIME PAST A TIME FUTURE and clearly DOESN'T have the same exact MEANING as our ENGLISH WORD DOES.

Our definition of 'forever' has NO END,

BUT

THIS FOREVER DOES,

and most assuredly it WILL COME TO AN END WHEN

IT BECOMES PART OF THE FORMER THINGS.
And it becomes something GOD DOESN'T THINK ABOUT.

Gone, blotted out, destroyed, perished, dead...by having no body and no soul,

having taken their part in the LOF, being consumed and the smoke of their torment going up for ever.

modified to fit
5769. olam ►

Strong's Concordance

olam: long duration, antiquity, futurity​

Original Word: עוֹלָם
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: olam
Phonetic Spelling: (o-lawm')
Definition: long duration, antiquity, futurity
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from an unused word
Definition
long duration, antiquity, futurity
NASB Translation
ages (1), all successive (1), always (1), ancient (13), ancient times (3), continual (1), days of old (1), eternal (2), eternity (3), ever (10), Everlasting (2), everlasting (110), forever (136), forever and ever (1), forever* (70), forevermore* (1), lasting (1), long (2), long ago (3), long past (1), long time (3), never* (17), old (11), permanent (10), permanently (1), perpetual (29), perpetually (1).

​

1 of past time:
a. ancient time: ׳יְמֵי ע עַם
b. ׳
c. of God, ׳מֵע:
d. of things: ׳
e. plural שְׁנוֺת עולמים




2. a. indefinite futurity, with preposition for ever, always (sometimes = during the lifetime); עֶבֶד עולם slave for ever Deuteronomy 15:17; 1 Samuel 27:12; Job 40:28; ׳עָבַד לע serve for ever Exodus 21:6 (E), Leviticus 25:46; ׳עד ע 1 Samuel 1:22; ׳גְּאֻלַּת ע Leviticus 25:32 redemption at any time; ׳הֲרַת ע Psalm 61:8; Psalm 73:26; Psalm 121:8; Proverbs 10:25; אשׁירה ׳ע Psalm 89:2 I will sing for ever (as long as I live), compare Psalm 52:10; Psalm 115:18; Psalm 145:1; Psalm 145:2; ׳הוֺדה ע Psalm 30:13; Psalm 44:9; Psalm 52:11; Psalm 79:13; other emotions and activities continuous through life

e. of God's laws: ד Numbers 18:23; Numbers 19:10,21 (P) (most of these in fact specifically Jewish and temporary);


i. = indefinite, unending future:
j. after death: ׳שׁנת ע Jeremiah 51:39,57; ׳בית ע Ecclesiastes 12:5; ׳חַיֵּי ע Daniel 12:2; ׳דראון ע Daniel 12:2; also Daniel 12:3; Jonah 2:7; Ecclesiastes 2:16; Ecclesiastes 9:6.
k. = age (duration) of the world: את העלם נתן בְּלִבָּם Ecclesiastes 3:11 the age of the world he hath set, etc. (compare especially Late Hebrew; others i).

m. special phrase: (מן) מ(ה)עולם (ו)עד (ה)עולם from everlasting to everlasting, of ׳י (i.e. as long as one lives); of people's hope in God Psalm 131:3; dynasty of David Isaiah 9:6; of God's acts, words, etc. Micah 4:7; Isaiah 59:21; Psalm




If nothing else, WHAT THIS THREAD HAS TRULY SHOWN
is
FALSE TEACHINGS, even in the face of
WHAT IS ACTUALLY WRITTEN vs WHAT ISN'T WRITTEN AT ALL,
ARE ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO LET GO OF


PEOPLE WOULD RATHER DO OR SAY ANYTHING OTHER THAN
I NEVER KNEW THAT
THANK YOU LORD FOR GIVING ALL OF US THAT TRUTH
I TOO, WILL PASS IT ON
SO THAT WE ALL MAY BECOME AS ONE
AS YOU AND THE FATHER ARE ONE


​

 

[FreeGrace2]

It is clearly seen OLAM doesn't mean for ever and ever AS we think, but is OF A DURATION, A TIME PAST A TIME FUTURE and clearly DOESN'T have the same exact MEANING as our ENGLISH WORD DOES.

Context, please. What verse are you referring to? We always needs context when discussing the meaning of words in verses.

The word "olam" doesn't occur in REv 20:10, so in regard to that verse, it isn't relevant. And since John began the last part of the verse with "day and night" we KNOW he was speaking of a time span. A day and night means 24 hours. When used with "for ever and ever", we know it means never ending.

 

[Jackson123]

THE 1ST BODY goes back to dust 'formalin' or not. We are told NOT TO fear THAT death because we have ANOTHER BODY that will house our soul, made in the heavens.

Still, the first 'death, ' makes us CEASE TO BE AWARE, makes us CEASE LIVING in the flesh, NO PROBLEM.


What death are we told we ARE TO FEAR? The 2nd death because it is of THE SPIRITUAL BODY AND THE SOUL in the lake of fire.

What happens when there is NO MORE BODY AND NO MORE SOUL? There is NO MORE ANYTHING. For ALL OF ETERNITY never again will there ever be again. We cease to exist having become VAPOR/SMOKE. There is NO REST apart from God... So they have nor rest as THEY NO LONGER ARE. DISAPPEARED. No soul/spirit/body. It has been CONSUMED and turned into ASHES Go check out a pile of ashes and see how much it cares about ANYTHING. Is it being TORMENTED? NOT THAT IT WOULD MATTER BECAUSE IT KNOWS NOTHING.


When we are told to fear, WE BEST BE FEARING. We aren't going to be told to fear things that DON'T EXIST, so there MUST BE SOMETHING to fear.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


622. apollumi ►
Strong's Concordance
apollumi: to destroy, destroy utterly
Original Word: ἀπόλλυμι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apollumi
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ol'-loo-mee)
Definition: to destroy, destroy utterly
Usage: (a) I kill, destroy, (b) I lose, mid: I am perishing (the resultant death being viewed as certain).
HELPS Word-studies
622 apóllymi (from 575 /apó, "away from," which intensifies ollymi, "to destroy") – properly, fully destroy, cutting off entirely (note the force of the prefix, 575 /apó).

622 /apóllymi ("violently/completely perish") implies permanent (absolute) destruction, i.e. to cancel out (remove); "to die, with the implication of ruin and destruction" (L & N, 1, 23.106); cause to be lost (utterly perish) by experiencing a miserable end.

[This is also the meaning of 622 /apóllymi dating back to Homer (900 bc.]



So all these 'word' games CANT change the LAKE OF FIRE from being OF THE FORMER earth.


Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.



Matthew 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.




AND what you should find to be REALLY SCARRY is with what you judge is with what you are judged,
... to judge that it is ok for someone to suffer in torment for all of eternity....would be the absolute worst way to have GODS JUDGMENT coming at you and RIGHT NOW, that is what you are looking forward to....a word to the wise....

I STRIVE to be all about FORGIVENESS, and quick as possible. Lots and lots of MERCY. Bending over backwards to give the other cheek, give another coat if someone steals one, to let bygones be bygones, because THAT IS HOW I WANT GOD TO JUDGE me, when my time comes to be judged.

destroy do not mean cease to exist
perish do not mean cease to exist

jesus state eternal punishment for goat in Matt 25:46

it imply the soul never die

how you do eternal punishment for death being

unless you accuse Jesus dumb

 

[kleronomos]

destroy do not mean cease to exist
perish do not mean cease to exist

jesus state eternal punishment for goat in Matt 25:46

it imply the soul never die

how you do eternal punishment for death being

unless you accuse Jesus dumb

BODY AND SOUL INTO THE FIRE



FIRE BURNS UP



LEAVING ONLY SMOKE TO ASCEND



AS SMOKE ASCENDS IT DISSIPATES INTO NOTHING



NOTHING IS CEASING TO EXIST



THAT is how FIRE WORKS. If you can name me one thing that can OUT LAST GOD, then I will believe that a SOUL CREATED BY GOD COULD PUT UP SUCH A FIGHT AS GOD COULD NEVER MAKE IT GO AWAY.


What WOULD that REQUIRE? Created souls TO BE more powerful than GOD IS.


LAKE OF FIRE PART OF THIS EARTH.

This earth WILL BECOME THE FORMER EARTH.

NOTHING OF THIS AGE WILL BE REMEMBERED, NOT BY YOU ME OR GOD.


WHAT YOU ARE SUGGESTING IS IMPOSSIBLE.

THE punishment, the DEATH of the body and soul LASTS FOREVER.

The PERSON doesn't NEED TO BE AWARE OF IT TAKING PLACE for it to be a truth.

 

[Jackson123]

BODY AND SOUL INTO THE FIRE



FIRE BURNS UP



LEAVING ONLY SMOKE TO ASCEND



AS SMOKE ASCENDS IT DISSIPATES INTO NOTHING



NOTHING IS CEASING TO EXIST



THAT is how FIRE WORKS. If you can name me one thing that can OUT LAST GOD, then I will believe that a SOUL CREATED BY GOD COULD PUT UP SUCH A FIGHT AS GOD COULD NEVER MAKE IT GO AWAY.


What WOULD that REQUIRE? Created souls TO BE more powerful than GOD IS.


LAKE OF FIRE PART OF THIS EARTH.

This earth WILL BECOME THE FORMER EARTH.

NOTHING OF THIS AGE WILL BE REMEMBERED, NOT BY YOU ME OR GOD.


WHAT YOU ARE SUGGESTING IS IMPOSSIBLE.

THE punishment, the DEATH of the body and soul LASTS FOREVER.

The PERSON doesn't NEED TO BE AWARE OF IT TAKING PLACE for it to be a truth.

God can do anything if He want

God can make soul cease to exist if He want

the problem is He do not want

He said goat go to eternal punishment not cease to exist.

 

[kleronomos]

God can do anything if He want

God can make soul cease to exist if He want

the problem is He do not want

He said goat go to eternal punishment not cease to exist.

NO BODY NO SOUL NO EXIST.
Truly just that simple.

 

[Jackson123]

NO BODY NO SOUL NO EXIST.
Truly just that simple.

Jesus say goat go to eternal punishment
it imply soul never cease to exist

let me ask you question

do you punish non existing being?

non exist, mean no pain sensor you punish what?

 

[Runningman]

So nothing you say matters at this point.

The written word of the Bible, the words of Jesus, the prophets, or the apostles don’t matter to you? Ironically, that’s a common response from Christians. When the Bible doesn’t match what they want they attack it and reject it.

I’m just repeating what they said. Sounds like your issue is with yourself and God, not me. You’ve been shown the Bible again and again. That really isn’t my problem if you won’t accept solutions to your errors. In the Bible when people rejected the truth, it was standard practice to move on to people who would listen. No need wasting time and energy on pointless arguments with you.

So if you still can’t prove eternal torment for all of the unsaved then you have nothing left to say. I’ll charge forward giving the world the truth about the fate of the wicked: They perish and God can destroy soul and body in hell. They’ll be resurrected, judged, then put to death: body, mind, spirit, soul, consciousness, and everything else.

 

[Runningman]

Jesus say goat go to eternal punishment
it imply soul never cease to exist

let me ask you question

do you punish non existing being?

non exist, mean no pain sensor you punish what?

The Bible says the wicked are punished with destruction; that’s death. So we have clear verses to prove what a punishment is for them.

You’re saying the eternal punishment is eternal torment in conscious pain, but when pressed for verses for can’t prove all of the unsaved are punished that way. See your error?

That’s really all we’re trying to show you here. So doesn’t the Bible, God’s word, have the final say on a matter?