"They Are Spiritually Discerned"

[SonsOfCaleb]

The Bible often hints that God's Word and ways cannot be understood by the human intellect. Neither the Jews, who were religious, nor the Greeks, who were intellectual, were able to understand God's Word. In fact, the Jews who had His Word were the ones who understood it the least. In light of these facts, christians should not assume that since we have a bigger Bible than they did in the past (we have the NT added), we can understand it better.

The average Bible has about 1,200 pages. A 16GB flash drive can hold 300,000 pages of Word documents. God wrote the Bible in such a way that He condensed 300,000 Word document pages into a flash drive called the Bible. To condense means 'to compress'. The Bible can't be 300,000 literal pages otherwise no one could carry one around, so it has been condensed for the average person. It has to be uncondensed or decompressed in order to read all 300,000 pages. The Bible says repeatedly that human beings don't have the intelligence or wisdom to decompress or interpret the Bible correctly. Before Jesus was crucified, He promised that the Holy Spirit would come whose job it would be to uncondense, decompress, unfold, or reveal the Bible to readers.

In Isaiah 55:8-9, God said, "My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways. As high as the heavens are over the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts." This should automatically tell us that the Bible requires an Interpreter for us to understand it and that we can't understand most of it through any human wisdom (Lexicons, Concordances, and Commentaries included). In case this doesn't get that point across, Paul explained to the Corinthians that God speaks in such a way that He cannot be understood unless a believer is 'spiritually-minded' or receives his understanding of God and Scriptures from God (the Holy Spirit) Himself.

In 1Corinthians 2, Paul says, "We have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

The human intellect can understand history but can't understand the Bible. Paul said that God gave us His Spirit so we can know (ie. understand, apprehend) the things He gives us. This is because the Holy Spirit interprets God to us just like Jesus once did, because our minds and understanding aren't sharp enough to understand God by ourselves. Paul said he and his brethren/partners/fellow ministers did not talk the way people normally talk but used spiritual words and meanings. He then stated that the carnal/natural man (ie. the intellect) is unable to receive or make sense of spiritual things since spiritual things must be apprehended with spiritual rather than 'carnal' senses. Every christian has a natural/carnal man. Paul was speaking only to believers about believers in that passage.

If christians had more understanding and practice of what Paul was saying, the result would be less arguing and debating among christians and more blessings such as the manifestation and miraculous works of God among christians. Does this make sense to anyone? Do you know what Paul was saying in the passage above and why it's important for christians?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

The Bible often hints that God's Word and ways cannot be understood by the human intellect. Neither the Jews, who were religious, nor the Greeks, who were intellectual, were able to understand God's Word. In fact, the Jews who had His Word were the ones who understood it the least. In light of these facts, christians should not assume that since we have a bigger Bible than they did in the past (we have the NT added), we can understand it better.

The average Bible has about 1,200 pages. A 16GB flash drive can hold 300,000 pages of Word documents. God wrote the Bible in such a way that He condensed 300,000 Word document pages into a flash drive called the Bible. To condense means 'to compress'. The Bible can't be 300,000 literal pages otherwise no one could carry one around, so it has been condensed for the average person. It has to be uncondensed or decompressed in order to read all 300,000 pages. The Bible says repeatedly that human beings don't have the intelligence or wisdom to decompress or interpret the Bible correctly. Before Jesus was crucified, He promised that the Holy Spirit would come whose job it would be to uncondense, decompress, unfold, or reveal the Bible to readers.

In Isaiah 55:8-9, God said, "My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways. As high as the heavens are over the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts." This should automatically tell us that the Bible requires an Interpreter for us to understand it and that we can't understand most of it through any human wisdom (Lexicons, Concordances, and Commentaries included). In case this doesn't get that point across, Paul explained to the Corinthians that God speaks in such a way that He cannot be understood unless a believer is 'spiritually-minded' or receives his understanding of God and Scriptures from God (the Holy Spirit) Himself.

In 1Corinthians 2, Paul says, "We have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

The human intellect can understand history but can't understand the Bible. Paul said that God gave us His Spirit so we can know (ie. understand, apprehend) the things He gives us. This is because the Holy Spirit interprets God to us just like Jesus once did, because our minds and understanding aren't sharp enough to understand God by ourselves. Paul said he and his brethren/partners/fellow ministers did not talk the way people normally talk but used spiritual words and meanings. He then stated that the carnal/natural man (ie. the intellect) is unable to receive or make sense of spiritual things since spiritual things must be apprehended with spiritual rather than 'carnal' senses. Every christian has a natural/carnal man. Paul was speaking only to believers about believers in that passage.

If christians had more understanding and practice of what Paul was saying, the result would be less arguing and debating among christians and more blessings such as the manifestation and miraculous works of God among christians. Does this make sense to anyone? Do you know what Paul was saying in the passage above and why it's important for christians?

I am with you on every word you have said so far.

 

[studentoftheword]

My view on this

Discernment is mentioned usually but never really explained ------

So what does discernment mean when it is used in scripture -----

King James Bible Dictionary

DISCERNMENT, n. The act of discerning; also, the power or faculty of the mind, by which it distinguishes one thing from another, as truth from falsehood, virtue from vice; acuteness of judgment; power of perceiving differences of things or ideas, and their relations and tendencies.


So every believer is given a certain amount of discernment when they receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and this discernment increases as the person matures in the Spirit ------the more the person is in the Word and focuses on the Word the more Wisdom and Knowledge is revealed by the Holy Spirit the more Spiritually discerned we become ------we are empowered by the Holy Spirit through the scriptures to tell the difference between good and evil


Hebrews 5:13-14 ESV

13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child.
14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.


Then there are some people who have been given the Spiritual Gift of Discerning the Spirits by and through the Holy Spirit to discern the truth of the Doctrine from the deceptive Doctrines circulated by demons ----they have the unique ability spot doctrinal forgeries that that been around from the 1st century -----they use the Word of God to test the Spirits to see which line up with God and which are opposed to Him -------

The Spiritually Discerning are diligent to rightly divide the Word of God ------


1 John 4:1 ESV

Test the Spirits
4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.



2 Timothy 2:15 AMPCE
15 Study and be eager and do your utmost to present yourself to God approved (tested by trial), a workman who has no cause to be ashamed, correctly analyzing and accurately dividing [rightly handling and skillfully teaching] the Word of Truth.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Do you know what Paul was saying in the passage above and why it's important for Christians?

Spiritual discernment is an absolute necessity to know what God has revealed by His Spirit. That is why Christ said that it is imperative that a man be born again in order to enter and to see the Kingdom of God. But we are also commanded to "rightly divide" or interpret the Word, and that takes spiritual discernment. Spiritual things are discerned by the spirit which is indwelt by the Holy Spirit. But the diligent study of the Word of God is included in this.

 

[Jocund]

He then stated that the carnal/natural man (ie. the intellect) is unable to receive or make sense of spiritual things since spiritual things must be apprehended with spiritual rather than 'carnal' senses.

I think your post is great, I just have one knitpick, and that is the concept that intellect were a carnal thing. In some senses, yes, in other senses (particularly in the sense of logos), no.

Even intellect in a carnal sense can be a vehicle for divine revelation much in the same way that other senses can be.

But that said, nice post.

 

[SonsOfCaleb]

I think your post is great, I just have one knitpick, and that is the concept that intellect were a carnal thing. In some senses, yes, in other senses (particularly in the sense of logos), no.

Even intellect in a carnal sense can be a vehicle for divine revelation much in the same way that other senses can be.

But that said, nice post.

God's Word (and all of Creation) is constantly unfolding. The mistake a lot of people make is to take something from the Bible and then nail it in one place, not aware that that thing is alive and active and constantly moving and growing.

That said, I don't do that. If I state something, I'm not stating it as a final word. When I said the carnal man is the intellect, that wasn't the end or the entire truth. I use my intellect every day, and God reveals a lot to people through the intellect. (For example, Proverbs 24:30-34.) People invent and innovate things through the intellect. Paul encouraged Timothy to use his intellect so that God could open mysteries (hidden things) to him (2Timothy 2:7). Just like Paul advised Timothy there, God is willing to 'open things to us' if we use and employ our intellect. This is why some things that people wonder and ponder and puzzle over are plain to me. I'm not smarter than them; I just employ my intellect and refuse to stop thinking until whatever the mystery or puzzle is has been uncovered, disclosed, or revealed. This is how discoveries and inventions, most of them made by non-christians, are uncovered.

While using my intellect and wondering why people from a church I used to attend always needed to eat immediately after church and Wednesday service, I 'gained understanding' that it was because we are tri-partite beings (spirit, soul, body), therefore, when one part of us lacks nourishment, the other two parts will immediately (and automatically) work to compensate by nourishing themselves. (Ie. the people from that church weren't being spiritually fed, so they had to eat immediately after church to make up in their bodies what lacked in their spirits.)

So, saying that the intellect is the carnal man isn't the entire truth. But I'm not intelligent enough nor is there enough space in the world to unfold everything the carnal nature is nor everything the intellect is. All the things of God (and really all Creation) are constantly unfolding because they are all alive. Therefore, no one can say with finality that this is this or that is that (except for surface truths but not for any truths that go under the surface) because God and His Word are alive (unfettered) and cannot be pinned down by anyone, not even by angels who are far more brilliant than we are (which is why lucifer and 1/3 of the angels somehow thought they could attack Him and prevail (LOL)). People (and angels, apparently) have a hard time making distinctions and distinguishing between things, especially things that are closely-related or that resemble each other. God (and His Word which is the part of Him that is available to us so that we can discern and distinguish as He does) has no problem with this:

"The word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account" (Hebrews 4:12-13).

 

[JohnB]

"Then I, Daniel, was overcome and lay sick for several days. Afterward I got up and performed my duties for the king, but I was greatly troubled by the vision and could not understand it. "....Daniel 8:27

"But he said, “Go now, Daniel, for what I have said is kept secret and sealed until the time of the end. " Daniel 9:12

Some things we will not understand until they come to pass.

 

[Magenta]

1 Timothy 3:16

 

[JaumeJ]

"Then I, Daniel, was overcome and lay sick for several days. Afterward I got up and performed my duties for the king, but I was greatly troubled by the vision and could not understand it. "....Daniel 8:27

"But he said, “Go now, Daniel, for what I have said is kept secret and sealed until the time of the end. " Daniel 9:12

Some things we will not understand until they come to pass.

Amen! If Daniel did not understand it, who would I think I am to interpret it from my puny mind? I await the full understanding of Daniel and Revelation, among many others.

How often I have wanted to post what you have posted. Thank you for the reminder always, God bless you.

 

[SonsOfCaleb]

Some things we will not understand until they come to pass.

Some things. God tells His people to seek Him from Genesis to Revelation and to ask Him to reveal His mysteries to them.

The parents of twin boys took two egg cartons and boiled, painted, then hid twenty Easter eggs in their house for their son to find. But four eggs they left in the fridge unboiled and unpainted. Then the parents told their twin boys to look for the twenty eggs and that they would get a prize if they found them all. One of the twins said, "What about the other four eggs?" The parents explained that they hadn't used those eggs but left them in the fridge. The boy then responded, "Well, if I can't have all twenty-four eggs, then I'm not going to waste my time looking for the twenty eggs." But the other twin went throughout the house looking for the twenty eggs. He found only ten eggs, but his parents gave him the prize they had anyway because he had done what they asked him and had tried his best.

God tells His people to seek. Jesus repeated this: "Ask [and keep asking]; seek [and keep seeking]; knock [and keep knocking]. For whoever asks receives, he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks the door will be opened" (Matthew 7:7-8).

So, if God says to seek, then our part is to seek. Our part isn't to say, "Why seek when some things can't be found?" Maybe the reason most of us don't seek is that it takes time and effort and isn't simple or easy:

"You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart" (Jeremiah 29:13). Some people seek God or seek an answer from God and then give up. The promise of finding is to those who expend energy and effort in seeking. If the Bible was 'an open book' and didn't use spiritual language, then maybe we shouldn't seek. But every page hides spiritual language, so either God wants to hide everything and keep it all a secret. Or He wants us to seek. Our natural disposition should be to seek unless He tells us not to. We're not to desist from seeking until He tells us to seek. Whatever can't be found, pass over it. But seek everything else. Only if you feel like it, of course. Jesus said people live by the currently-proceeding Word from God (not by words written in pages, books, or articles). No one comes to know God by reading the Bible or by any other means; people come to know God only by seeking God Himself. And it takes time and effort. So much for the myth that you can be lazy, go to church once or twice a week, and spend routine quiet times with God and still somehow be knowledgeable about God and about spiritual things. Look at all the work and effort in this passage about knowing God and His ways (His Nature/character/personality):

"My son, if you receive my words and treasure my commands within you so that you incline your ear to wisdom and apply your heart to understanding; yes, if you cry out for discernment and lift up your voice for understanding, if you seek her as silver and search for her as for hidden treasures, then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God. For the Lord gives wisdom; from His mouth come knowledge and understanding" (Proverbs 2:1-6).

 

[SonsOfCaleb]

Amen! If Daniel did not understand it, who would I think I am to interpret it from my puny mind? I await the full understanding of Daniel and Revelation, among many others.

Are you basing our ability to understand on Daniel's ability? Or worse: do you think Daniel had more Grace available to him under the old covenant than you do now under the New Covenant?

You said, "If Daniel did not understand it, who would I think I am to interpret it from my puny mind?" Really. So, Daniel is way smarter than you? He's not smarter than me. Somehow, you never got the memo: God doesn't care for man's grading standards and doesn't use the same standard. God gives wisdom (and everything else) to whoever He wants to or whoever asks and keeps asking. He doesn't care about one's accomplishments or whatever else.

But since you missed all the memos regarding this on the Pages of the Bible, Paul would like to tell you that just because something wasn't revealed in the past doesn't mean it won't be revealed in the future. Ie. just because God didn't reveal some things to Daniel doesn't mean He won't reveal those things to you. Of course, if you don't care to do the work of getting those revelations, then you're exempt from having to try.

"Indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the Grace of God which was given to me for you, how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets" (Ephesians 3:2-5).

Should be self-explanatory, but here's some help just in case. Paul said that God gave him special knowledge specifically for the Ephesians and that He gave him that hidden knowledge (ie. "mystery") by revelation (ie. not by reading, praying, chanting, meditating, studying, but directly from God just as it was with Daniel). Paul continues that His knowledge about the things of God was because God gave him that knowledge directly (by revelation) for the Ephesians (because the Ephesians would have been wondering how and why he had that knowledge and so Paul's explanation was that a. God gave the knowledge to him b. for them). Finally, and this is very important when talking about Daniel and not being worthy of his revelations (or whatever you said), Paul says that there are truths that were not revealed in the past but that are now being revealed. You didn't live in Daniel's time; you live now. Why would you say that you're unable to 'acquire' the things that were told to Daniel in the past?

Can you find anywhere in the Bible that it says that people who died hundreds and thousands of years ago can be raised to life now (as in raised back to life to continue living on earth like everyone else, and this before the return of Jesus)? Can you find anywhere in the Bible where it talks about narcissistic personality disorder? Can you find a blueprint for a ministry of signs and wonders in Psalm 23? The answer to all those questions is "No" because the things that are hidden and cannot be discerned until the Holy Spirit literally uncovers, unveils, or discloses them to you. But they are only revealed to those who go seeking them, not to those who say, "It can't be done."

 

[JaumeJ]

I mention Revelation also.

 

[Magenta]

Jeremiah 29:13-14a

 

[Shepherd]

The Bible often hints that God's Word and ways cannot be understood by the human intellect. Neither the Jews, who were religious, nor the Greeks, who were intellectual, were able to understand God's Word. In fact, the Jews who had His Word were the ones who understood it the least. In light of these facts, christians should not assume that since we have a bigger Bible than they did in the past (we have the NT added), we can understand it better.

The average Bible has about 1,200 pages. A 16GB flash drive can hold 300,000 pages of Word documents. God wrote the Bible in such a way that He condensed 300,000 Word document pages into a flash drive called the Bible. To condense means 'to compress'. The Bible can't be 300,000 literal pages otherwise no one could carry one around, so it has been condensed for the average person. It has to be uncondensed or decompressed in order to read all 300,000 pages. The Bible says repeatedly that human beings don't have the intelligence or wisdom to decompress or interpret the Bible correctly. Before Jesus was crucified, He promised that the Holy Spirit would come whose job it would be to uncondense, decompress, unfold, or reveal the Bible to readers.

In Isaiah 55:8-9, God said, "My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways. As high as the heavens are over the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts." This should automatically tell us that the Bible requires an Interpreter for us to understand it and that we can't understand most of it through any human wisdom (Lexicons, Concordances, and Commentaries included). In case this doesn't get that point across, Paul explained to the Corinthians that God speaks in such a way that He cannot be understood unless a believer is 'spiritually-minded' or receives his understanding of God and Scriptures from God (the Holy Spirit) Himself.

In 1Corinthians 2, Paul says, "We have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

The human intellect can understand history but can't understand the Bible. Paul said that God gave us His Spirit so we can know (ie. understand, apprehend) the things He gives us. This is because the Holy Spirit interprets God to us just like Jesus once did, because our minds and understanding aren't sharp enough to understand God by ourselves. Paul said he and his brethren/partners/fellow ministers did not talk the way people normally talk but used spiritual words and meanings. He then stated that the carnal/natural man (ie. the intellect) is unable to receive or make sense of spiritual things since spiritual things must be apprehended with spiritual rather than 'carnal' senses. Every christian has a natural/carnal man. Paul was speaking only to believers about believers in that passage.

If christians had more understanding and practice of what Paul was saying, the result would be less arguing and debating among christians and more blessings such as the manifestation and miraculous works of God among christians. Does this make sense to anyone? Do you know what Paul was saying in the passage above and why it's important for christians?

Yes, God's word is Spiritually discerned.

Galatians 5:22
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,”

Maybe when we can read it while in this mindset, interpretation becomes much easier. Of course the "natural man" cannot do this because the Spirit doesn't dwell within him. Too many times even we try to get at the Truth, while not walking in the Spirit. Can't have one without the other.

 

[Edify]

Luke 11:9And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Many cannot discern because they don't want to know.
If they can't be doers of the Word because they can't discern it, they deceive themselves.
They don't want to know because they don't want to do.
Really now, do we think that a one time believe only will save them?

 

[SonsOfCaleb]

I mention Revelation also.

What about Revelation?

Yes, God's word is Spiritually discerned.

Galatians 5:22
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,”

Maybe when we can read it while in this mindset, interpretation becomes much easier. Of course the "natural man" cannot do this because the Spirit doesn't dwell within him. Too many times even we try to get at the Truth, while not walking in the Spirit. Can't have one without the other.

Your response is confusing and seems complicated. God's gifts and callings are without repentance. christians who are in sin can still operate in their spiritual gifts. 1Corinthians is a good example of this. I've known satanists who operated in their original calling (because everyone has a calling from God, not just christians) while serving satan. One of them has a calling that is so apparent that he's easily to deceive the christians in the churches he attends. His prayers and preaching sound authentic because he draws from his calling in God in order to deceive christians. Oh, you don't think that happens?

Don't try to box, wrap, and label what God hasn't boxed, wrapped, or labeled. lucifer's gifts from God still operate, and he can quote the Bible and appear as an angel of light. You're complicating what is simple. God's Word is spiritually discerned. Period. Whether you read it from this point of view or that perspective, it is spiritually discerned. I've known pastors who seemed to be 'walkinig in the Spirit' and didn't know the first thing about the Bible. On the other hand, I was smoking cigarettes and hanging out in the world but understood the Bible far better than they did. You're doing what a lot of people do-- you're complicating simple things and simplifying complex things. God uncovers His Word to the humble, not to the 'spiritual'. God's Word is spiritually discerned, not God's Word is discerned by spiritual (ie. religious) people.

 

[SonsOfCaleb]

Luke 11:9And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Many cannot discern because they don't want to know.
If they can't be doers of the Word because they can't discern it, they deceive themselves.
They don't want to know because they don't want to do.
Really now, do we think that a one time believe only will save them?

"They don't want to know." That's often the summary of christianity as a whole and of people pick and choose their reality.

 

[Magenta]

"They don't want to know." That's often the summary of christianity as a whole and of people pick and choose their reality.

Which is why you have so many people on ignore

 

[Magenta]

I mention Revelation also.

He totally did not understand what you said. At. All.

 

[JaumeJ]

What about Revelation?


Your response is confusing and seems complicated. God's gifts and callings are without repentance. christians who are in sin can still operate in their spiritual gifts. 1Corinthians is a good example of this. I've known satanists who operated in their original calling (because everyone has a calling from God, not just christians) while serving satan. One of them has a calling that is so apparent that he's easily to deceive the christians in the churches he attends. His prayers and preaching sound authentic because he draws from his calling in God in order to deceive christians. Oh, you don't think that happens?

Don't try to box, wrap, and label what God hasn't boxed, wrapped, or labeled. lucifer's gifts from God still operate, and he can quote the Bible and appear as an angel of light. You're complicating what is simple. God's Word is spiritually discerned. Period. Whether you read it from this point of view or that perspective, it is spiritually discerned. I've known pastors who seemed to be 'walkinig in the Spirit' and didn't know the first thing about the Bible. On the other hand, I was smoking cigarettes and hanging out in the world but understood the Bible far better than they did. You're doing what a lot of people do-- you're complicating simple things and simplifying complex things. God uncovers His Word to the humble, not to the 'spiritual'. God's Word is spiritually discerned, not God's Word is discerned by spiritual (ie. religious) people.

Were you to share your complete knowledge of Revelation, Daniel and all the other books of the Word, then you would display the truth of what you have presumed you know. I await the revelation by the Holy Spirit. Since you have divided the Word so well, it is time you share it. When will all of these come about and what exactly do the prophecies mean? I have received the knowledge of Salvation and t the hope of the Blood of Jesus Yeshua, and I cannot, not yet.

Tell us all.