It's astounding how people will jump through hoops, climb the tallest trees and hang upside down whislin' Dixie just to prove their doctrines in the Bible. Bro, the thief on the cross died right next to Jesus and, correct me if I'm wrong but, the time period of Jesus' life is recorded in and by the New Testament in the Book of Luke. The thief ain't even mentioned in the OT. Besides that, salvation has always always been by grace through faith, all the way back to Adam. Now, what bible verse did you get this belief from? Ok I see it...just a minute
Is Baptism necessary for Salvation?
- Thread starter MOC
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Submitting to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus for remission of sin was a NT command begun on the Day of Pentecost. And since the thief died prior to that the requirement did not apply to him.
Notice that John the Baptist introduced water baptism for remission of sin. Afterward Jesus prophesied in Luke 24:47, that repentance and remission of sin would be preached in His name to all nations BEGINNING in Jerusalem. Peter preached the first message that included the need for everyone to repent and be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission of sin. This occurred in Jerusalem and Jesus' prophetic words continue even unto today as nations throughout the world are hearing the same message.
For clarification notice Paul re-baptized the Ephesus disciples who had been water baptized previously by John. (Acts 19:1-7) We also know it was water baptism because scripture says he baptized them in the name of the Lord Jesus and afterward they received the Holy Ghost. In addition, scripture confirms that baptizing in the name of the Lord is water baptism. See Acts 10:47-48:
"Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord..."
The word of God in Acts doesn't say they were baptized in water in Jesus' name concerning the Disciples in Ephesus Paul met.
The baptism of Jesus is the Holy Spirit as it says in the Gospel of John chapter 1:33
And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water,
the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. That baptism of the Holy Spirit is not done by water. It is done by God.
Brother, that doesn't even mention "baptism". Salvation is by grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Salvation from what? Sin, self and Hell! One gets saved by turning from sin/self to Jesus by faith. ALL of salvation takes place in your heart. A blind, deaf, mute, quadriplegic who can't do anything can trust Jesus in his heart. If you try to get saved by any other way it is "works". Back to the thief, He simply said (paraphrased) "I deserve the punishment I'm getting"...."Lord remember me when thou comest to thy Kingdom. By those simple words he showed that he FULLY BELIEVED that he was doomed, that he deserved it, that Jesus was God Almighty, and was his only hope! You say he didn't say all that? Yesseree he did.
That will get a person saved Baptism is a rite that states symbolically that one is burying the old, sinful "man", then rising again as a new person in Christ.
"We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life." Romans 6:4 It is not necessary for salvation.
Ephesians 2:8-9, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."
In this case, baptism is a "work"; it doesn't not save.
"We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life." Romans 6:4 It is not necessary for salvation.
Ephesians 2:8-9, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."
In this case, baptism is a "work"; it doesn't not save.
Baptism with water is not a work of man. Every person bathes but this is not baptism even if they pray and sing spiritual hymns and songs as they bathe regularly. Water baptism is by God by his institution and by his command. Just as it us not a work of man that if one preaches the Gospel and one hearing believes; this also is a work of God. Just as one communes with the Lord Jesus at the Lords supper each Sunday, though one man hands another a cup and a portion of bread and another receives it is not a work of man. But these are works of God that we get to touch and see and taste and hear.
Wansvic cited these verses in post #742...
Acts 10:47-48, Peter said: “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”
... to show that water baptism is necessary for salvation.
If you read these verses, the people discussed had already received the Holy Spirit prior to water baptism. It therefore proves that water baptism is not necessary for salvation.
Acts 10:47-48, Peter said: “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”
... to show that water baptism is necessary for salvation.
If you read these verses, the people discussed had already received the Holy Spirit prior to water baptism. It therefore proves that water baptism is not necessary for salvation.
Brother, Any physical act, whether it's batheing or blinking an eye.; anything you "do" is a work. Salvation takes place in the heart. Nobody can see "a salvation". But you might get to see the results.
Just curious which baptism were Jesus and His disciples performing in John 3? Baptism of repentance or baptism in the name of Jesus?
John 3:22
22After this, Jesus and His disciples went into the Judean countryside, where He spent some time with them and baptized.
As the last post indicated, I do not believe God is three separate persons. Why? Because the bible says: "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: " (Deut. 6:4) Scripture reveals God as the Father, in the Son and is the Holy Ghost." 1 Tim. 3:16
"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
"And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God."
Its very weird. It seems as though many of you think God Jesus are on a linear time line like us. They are not. The OT saints were saved by faith; faith in Jesus and his atonement.
Jesus the Lamb if God slain from the foundation of the world.
Jesus the Lamb if God slain from the foundation of the world.
"Obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus for remission of sin was begun on the Day of Pentecost" is false doctrine.
The Bible Dictionary defines remission as "Sins are remitted when the offender is treated as though the offense had never been committed." If water baptism achieved remission of sin then there was/is no need for Jesus to have died. According to this doctrine, all one has to do is be baptized in water and their sins are forgiven.
@BillG Don't know if you read through the first post concerning the topic of the trinity but it included a quote from Lewis Smedes, While not rejecting trinitarianism, Lewis Smedes has acknowledged, “The experience of the Spirit is the experience with the Lord. In the new age, the Lord is the Spirit. . . . The Spirit is the ascended Jesus in His earthly action. . . . The Spirit is Christ in His redemptive functions. . . . This suggests that we do not serve a biblical purpose by insisting on the Spirit as a person who is separate from the person whose name is Jesus.”
Even though this has nothing to do with the OP...
God is manifest in three different ways -- the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Three separate persons. Now how about we return to the OP subject: is baptism necessary for salvation.
Yes I did read it.
Did not you see my favourite quote of his that I posted?
Right. God is not 3 separate persons. He is three persons in one. Jesus said "I and my Father are one" for example. How can that be? How can God speak into nothingness and create matter, energy and life? How can He walk on water? Make the blind to see? die and rise again? I don't understand it, I just read it and believe it.
Why don't you people start a new thread if this is what you want to discuss? This thread is about baptism.
To be fair to @Wansvic i asked the question as to whether those who state that we must be baptised in the name of Jesus only believe in the Trinity.
The reason being I assume not because they reject baptism in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
He was the only one to answer.