Is Baptism necessary for Salvation?
- Thread starter MOC
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Genesis 6:1-22 When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.” The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown. The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. ...
Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.
Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.
I believe that Jesus taught a doctrine that, there is an eternal salvation (deliverance - Greek translation), and there are many deliverances (salvations) that his born again children experience as they sojourn here in this world.
Too many of good intentioned, born again children, apply all of the salvation (deliverance) scriptures to eternal deliverance, which tends, to them, to teach that eternal deliverance is accomplished by their good works.
There are many deliverances that born again children receive as they sojourn here on earth, due to their good works.
Those that have been revealed this knowledge are but a few. The scriptures refer to them as; the remnant. the little flock. the few, etc.
Those born again children, who do not have this knowledge, and are going about depending on the letter of the old law to deliver them eternally, do still have the security of their eternal inheritance of heaven, accomplished by Christ's death on the cross, but are considered "lost" from the knowledge of their eternal deliverance, and are in need of being saved (delivered) as they live here in this world.
God's , spiritually, ordained preachers are instructed to teach this knowledge of what Jesus has done for them on the cross to his born again children who are "lost" to this knowledge, and are still depending upon their works to deliver them eternally.
The scriptures do not tell us how to get delivered eternally, but they do explain how we were delivered eternally, and that was by the sovereign grace of God requiring his Son to go to the cross in payment for the sins of those that he gave to him.
Too many of good intentioned, born again children, apply all of the salvation (deliverance) scriptures to eternal deliverance, which tends, to them, to teach that eternal deliverance is accomplished by their good works.
There are many deliverances that born again children receive as they sojourn here on earth, due to their good works.
Those that have been revealed this knowledge are but a few. The scriptures refer to them as; the remnant. the little flock. the few, etc.
Those born again children, who do not have this knowledge, and are going about depending on the letter of the old law to deliver them eternally, do still have the security of their eternal inheritance of heaven, accomplished by Christ's death on the cross, but are considered "lost" from the knowledge of their eternal deliverance, and are in need of being saved (delivered) as they live here in this world.
God's , spiritually, ordained preachers are instructed to teach this knowledge of what Jesus has done for them on the cross to his born again children who are "lost" to this knowledge, and are still depending upon their works to deliver them eternally.
The scriptures do not tell us how to get delivered eternally, but they do explain how we were delivered eternally, and that was by the sovereign grace of God requiring his Son to go to the cross in payment for the sins of those that he gave to him.
-
1
- Show all
The onus is on you to prove he was.
Here's the first clue to help you and those like you who add to God's word.
He was being crucified for the sin of theft.
He knew Jesus because Jesus was known as the itinerate Rabbi, and Messiah, ministering the Gospel of Salvation.
It was from his own cross that he asked Jesus to remember him when Jesus comes into his kingdom.
If he had been baptized and saved prior he would not have asked Jesus to remember him after the thief died on his own cross.
The thief was saved right then and there by Jesus himself. Jesus didn't stop time, get them both down from the cross and run right quick to the Jordan so to baptize the thief.
Jesus, the living water, saved the thief right there. How? Because the thief met Jesus' criteria. By grace the thief knew who Jesus was. By the thiefs faith in Jesus our Lord knew him too.
Works do not save.
If immersion were mandatory God would never call any dessert dwellers to his Salvation.
Dessert.
No water.
Here's the first clue to help you and those like you who add to God's word.
He was being crucified for the sin of theft.
He knew Jesus because Jesus was known as the itinerate Rabbi, and Messiah, ministering the Gospel of Salvation.
It was from his own cross that he asked Jesus to remember him when Jesus comes into his kingdom.
If he had been baptized and saved prior he would not have asked Jesus to remember him after the thief died on his own cross.
The thief was saved right then and there by Jesus himself. Jesus didn't stop time, get them both down from the cross and run right quick to the Jordan so to baptize the thief.
Jesus, the living water, saved the thief right there. How? Because the thief met Jesus' criteria. By grace the thief knew who Jesus was. By the thiefs faith in Jesus our Lord knew him too.
Works do not save.
If immersion were mandatory God would never call any dessert dwellers to his Salvation.
Dessert.
No water.
-
1
- Show all
The onus is on you to prove he was.
Here's the first clue to help you and those like you who add to God's word.
He was being crucified for the sin of theft.
He knew Jesus because Jesus was known as the itinerate Rabbi, and Messiah, ministering the Gospel of Salvation.
It was from his own cross that he asked Jesus to remember him when Jesus comes into his kingdom.
If he had been baptized and saved prior he would not have asked Jesus to remember him after the thief died on his own cross.
The thief was saved right then and there by Jesus himself. Jesus didn't stop time, get them both down from the cross and run right quick to the Jordan so to baptize the thief.
Jesus, the living water, saved the thief right there. How? Because the thief met Jesus' criteria. By grace the thief knew who Jesus was. By the thiefs faith in Jesus our Lord knew him too.
Works do not save.
If immersion were mandatory God would never call any dessert dwellers to his Salvation.
Dessert.
No water.
Here's the first clue to help you and those like you who add to God's word.
He was being crucified for the sin of theft.
He knew Jesus because Jesus was known as the itinerate Rabbi, and Messiah, ministering the Gospel of Salvation.
It was from his own cross that he asked Jesus to remember him when Jesus comes into his kingdom.
If he had been baptized and saved prior he would not have asked Jesus to remember him after the thief died on his own cross.
The thief was saved right then and there by Jesus himself. Jesus didn't stop time, get them both down from the cross and run right quick to the Jordan so to baptize the thief.
Jesus, the living water, saved the thief right there. How? Because the thief met Jesus' criteria. By grace the thief knew who Jesus was. By the thiefs faith in Jesus our Lord knew him too.
Works do not save.
If immersion were mandatory God would never call any dessert dwellers to his Salvation.
Dessert.
No water.
I never made an emphatic claim that he was or was not baptized I simply asked someone to prove their claim
Gaslighting is bad umkay
What I stated is in fact true: "Being obedient to the command to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus is the result of trusting in God. For it was He who instituted the NT command along with it's purpose."
I share the truth out of love. And my prayer is you, as well as others, will receive revelation that only God can give.
I share the truth out of love. And my prayer is you, as well as others, will receive revelation that only God can give.
Non sequitur.
You quoted a post where nothing of the kind was said. Why not take the time to find my post instead of blurting your grudge when the opportunity affords itself on s thread wholly removed from where I posted Hitler's quote? Btw , the owner of Snopes isn't a good source to find 'truth'. Do the research.
You think because someone didn't write it down that Hitler didn't say that? History speaks for itself. And that quote synopsized exactly what he did.
''In 1933, the ultimate extremist group, led by Adolf Hitler, seized power and used the records to identify, disarm, and attack political opponents and Jews. Constitutional rights were suspended, and mass searches for and seizures of guns and dissident publications ensued. Police revoked gun licenses of Social Democrats and others who were not “politically reliable.”
During the five years of repression that followed, society was “cleansed” by the National Socialist regime. Undesirables were placed in camps where labor made them “free,” and normal rights of citizenship were taken from Jews. The Gestapo banned independent gun clubs and arrested their leaders. Gestapo counsel Werner Best issued a directive to the police forbidding issuance of firearm permits to Jews.
In 1938, Hitler signed a new Gun Control Act. Now that many “enemies of the state” had been removed from society, some restrictions could be slightly liberalized, especially for Nazi Party members. But Jews were prohibited from working in the firearms industry, and .22 caliber hollow-point ammunition was banned.''
https://www.nationalreview.com/2013/12/how-nazis-used-gun-control-stephen-p-halbrook/
From page 266:https://www.researchgate.net/public...'Enemies_of_the_State''_by_Stephen_P_Halbrook
''...Ultimately, the prohibitions enacted by the Nazi regime led
to monopoly control of firearms by the Nazis and eliminated the
ability of many groups in society to defend themselves. Halbrook
offers further episodes of gun control in the conclusion, detailing
how two decades of gun control unfolded during World War II.''
You quoted a post where nothing of the kind was said. Why not take the time to find my post instead of blurting your grudge when the opportunity affords itself on s thread wholly removed from where I posted Hitler's quote? Btw , the owner of Snopes isn't a good source to find 'truth'. Do the research.
You think because someone didn't write it down that Hitler didn't say that? History speaks for itself. And that quote synopsized exactly what he did.
''In 1933, the ultimate extremist group, led by Adolf Hitler, seized power and used the records to identify, disarm, and attack political opponents and Jews. Constitutional rights were suspended, and mass searches for and seizures of guns and dissident publications ensued. Police revoked gun licenses of Social Democrats and others who were not “politically reliable.”
During the five years of repression that followed, society was “cleansed” by the National Socialist regime. Undesirables were placed in camps where labor made them “free,” and normal rights of citizenship were taken from Jews. The Gestapo banned independent gun clubs and arrested their leaders. Gestapo counsel Werner Best issued a directive to the police forbidding issuance of firearm permits to Jews.
In 1938, Hitler signed a new Gun Control Act. Now that many “enemies of the state” had been removed from society, some restrictions could be slightly liberalized, especially for Nazi Party members. But Jews were prohibited from working in the firearms industry, and .22 caliber hollow-point ammunition was banned.''
https://www.nationalreview.com/2013/12/how-nazis-used-gun-control-stephen-p-halbrook/
From page 266:https://www.researchgate.net/public...'Enemies_of_the_State''_by_Stephen_P_Halbrook
''...Ultimately, the prohibitions enacted by the Nazi regime led
to monopoly control of firearms by the Nazis and eliminated the
ability of many groups in society to defend themselves. Halbrook
offers further episodes of gun control in the conclusion, detailing
how two decades of gun control unfolded during World War II.''
...
If immersion were mandatory God would never call any dessert dwellers to his Salvation.
Dessert.
No water.
If immersion were mandatory God would never call any dessert dwellers to his Salvation.
Dessert.
No water.
-
1
- Show all
You should direct that last remark to the one that introduced the idea concerning the thief and baptism.🙄
Belaboring man's point, the thief was or was not baptized, is contrary to proper exegesis. And unworthy of Christians to add such a thing to that part of the testament just to further their works salvation heresy.
I for one will not sully the scriptures as others do by continuing in this abuse of the word.
Sadly it appears that is the purpose and intent of some.
Belaboring man's point, the thief was or was not baptized, is contrary to proper exegesis. And unworthy of Christians to add such a thing to that part of the testament just to further their works salvation heresy.
I for one will not sully the scriptures as others do by continuing in this abuse of the word.
Sadly it appears that is the purpose and intent of some.
As you allude to, there is no scripture saying if he was or wasn't. However, what many fail to realize is water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus for remission of sin was a NT command begun on the Day of Pentecost. And since the thief died prior to Jesus' death, burial and resurrection the requirement did not apply to him.
Thank you for responding.
Am I reading correctly that you don't believe in the Trinity?
The main reason that the Holy Spirit is not a person?
Do you not believe in one God but as three separate persons?
Do you believe in only one God as one person and the Holy Spirit is some kind of force?
Lewis Smedes.
One of the best quotes I have ever read and for me it's essential for a person struggling with hurt and pain and anger.
"To forgive is to set the prisoner free only to realise the prisoner was you"
Am I reading correctly that you don't believe in the Trinity?
The main reason that the Holy Spirit is not a person?
Do you not believe in one God but as three separate persons?
Do you believe in only one God as one person and the Holy Spirit is some kind of force?
Lewis Smedes.
One of the best quotes I have ever read and for me it's essential for a person struggling with hurt and pain and anger.
"To forgive is to set the prisoner free only to realise the prisoner was you"