Pentecostalism's sketchy origins

[mustaphadrink]

I have spoken in tongues , although usually in prayer. I find that some maybe out of place by doing somethings in the church. But to dismiss something at times as saying this is not of God. Find many times it is their own conclusion. I am learning that scripture says to pray for one another more then to find their faults. Besides I figure that is the devil's job. Because daily he tries to remind me of mine

Satan is so unoriginal isn't he.

 

[Wansvic]

As a P.S. to the previous post, I know that I get annoying when people give their opinion on this that and the other. I usually want to know what the scripture teaches. This can make some people angry. For the record I am not interested in anyone's opinion, not even mine, so I stick with what the Word teaches and if doesn't gel with my opinion, my opinion is dumped in the round filing cabinet.

The scripture tells us that it is the truth that sets us free. To know the truth I cannot bypass the Holy Spirit. So for me I need the Word AND the Holy Spirit. Without him, I have no idea what the truth is.

As I said, truth is found by seeking God and what is found in His Word. It is the Holy Ghost/Spirit that leads into all truth. The Spirit confirms the word and vise-versa. The two will never contradict one another.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Those who want to know the truth should seek God and learn from His word.

I agree, Yahweh's word comes first, but there are other truths we need to walk with wisdom in this life.

 

[ResidentAlien]

it may be for you but for millions of Christians it passes the pub test so be careful when you pronounce judgment on that which is from God.

I'm not the least bit worried about your veiled threats; that's what it always comes down to in the end anyway. Be careful, God will get you!

 

[cv5]

They are not short on product when it comes to the supernatural. I have only ever seen supernatural healings take place in Pentecostal churches. I have only read about supernatural healing in Pentecostal churches or ministries.

Being of a cynical suspicious nature I'm calling that a red flag. At any rate I don't feel (and never have felt) the need to go to any Church where supposed tongues and healings are the main drawing cards. And truth be told that is exactly what the bogus Benny Hinn types are peddling.

Nope. When I hear the baby babbling supposed tounges and rolling on the ground falling over slaying in the Spirit business.......I bailout and never come back.

IMO, the primary purpose of the Church assembly is to equip the Saints to go forth and preach the gospel. Signs miracles and wonders were early Church authentication gifts. Since there is exceeding little evidence to support that they're happening today I assume that they are no longer necessary.

I live in a very large city and I have bailed out of many many Churches around here. One was preaching the gospel of Bono (the rockstar dude). The other was using Madonna as an heroic example for youth Christian pattern of living. I had to bail out of one old-fashioned Church because the Pastor was a closet amillennialist. Took me something like a year to figure him out......he was intentionally deceiving me despite my many questions about the matter. Finally the truth came out and I bailed. I eventually found out that he believed that much (very much) Scripture was nothing more than quaint Jewish post-exilic myth.

As of now Church-less. For a long time now. What a bummer. But at least I'm preserving my integrity.

With these kinds of Churches around I figure the end is near. Very near indeed.

 

[cv5]

The so-called tounges spoken by Kenneth Copeland and Benny Hinn are forensically absolutely indistinguishable from those assumed to be genuine spoken by Pentecostals. I can say that because I have heard both.

On the other hand genuine legitimate Acts 2 & 10 tongues are so shocking and remarkable that they are beyond all refutation.

BTW.....tounges gimmickry is soundly denounced by Paul per 1 Cor 14:6. So why does it remain a bastion of the Pentecostal Churches?

 

[ResidentAlien]

BTW.....tounges gimmickry is soundly denounced by Paul per 1 Cor 14:6. So why does it remain a bastion of the Pentecostal Churches?

A lot of reasons but none of them base on sound doctrine.

 

[ResidentAlien]

If all the "catchers" went away today, I wonder how many people we'd see being slain in the spirit?

I mean, if the Spirit does it and they can't control it, wouldn't you think they'd just fall flat out anyway?

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

The Pentecostals are not a cult as there is no such thing as a Pentecostal organsation. There are churches that are Pentecostal in nature such as the AOG, Elim, Christian Outreach Centre, Australian Christian Churches, Church of God (Full Gospel), Italian Pentecostal Churches, Planet Shakers, Apostolic Pentecostal Church, United Pentecostal Churches of Australia, The three Cs, Hillsong, Apostolic Churches, Pentecostal Church of God, Pentecostal Holiness Church, Ukrainian Christian Pentecostal Church and I could go on and on and on

That lack of organization is what makes it so easy for cults of the very lurid variety to flourish. Since they're not going by God's structure then they are going by man's structure, and the result is going to spiritually be Pandemonium.

 

[mustaphadrink]

That lack of organization is what makes it so easy for cults of the very lurid variety to flourish. Since they're not going by God's structure then they are going by man's structure, and the result is going to spiritually be Pandemonium.

No denominational church is going by God's structure as denominations or their equivalent is condemned in scripture.

 

[mustaphadrink]

Being of a cynical suspicious nature I'm calling that a red flag. At any rate I don't feel (and never have felt) the need to go to any Church where supposed tongues and healings are the main drawing cards. And truth be told that is exactly what the bogus Benny Hinn types are peddling.

Nope. When I hear the baby babbling supposed tounges and rolling on the ground falling over slaying in the Spirit business.......I bailout and never come back.

IMO, the primary purpose of the Church assembly is to equip the Saints to go forth and preach the gospel. Signs miracles and wonders were early Church authentication gifts. Since there is exceeding little evidence to support that they're happening today I assume that they are no longer necessary.

I live in a very large city and I have bailed out of many many Churches around here. One was preaching the gospel of Bono (the rockstar dude). The other was using Madonna as an heroic example for youth Christian pattern of living. I had to bail out of one old-fashioned Church because the Pastor was a closet amillennialist. Took me something like a year to figure him out......he was intentionally deceiving me despite my many questions about the matter. Finally the truth came out and I bailed. I eventually found out that he believed that much (very much) Scripture was nothing more than quaint Jewish post-exilic myth.

As of now Church-less. For a long time now. What a bummer. But at least I'm preserving my integrity.

With these kinds of Churches around I figure the end is near. Very near indeed.

Sad to say you are putting all your begs in oner askit. That usually ends up with people making judgments based on another person's experience aka Benny Hinn's.

BH has to answer to God, not me or you. I can't convince him that what he is doing is right or wrong. Only God can do that and he has done that.

As for your claim that since there is exceeding little evidence to support that they're happening today I assume that they are no longer necessary.

First assumption is the worst form of decision-making.

Second, every day somewhere in the world a miracle takes place, just not in your backyard and just because it does not happen in your backyard does not mean that it does not happen. That is a purely subjective judgment. I have seen a few, read about a few, and been involved in making a few happen, so I am not jaundiced like you. My experience has brought a young man back to life.

The scripture says to seek me and you shall find me. I am doing that all the time because that keeps me from focussing on what other people do or do not do.

 

[cv5]

Sad to say you are putting all your begs in oner askit. That usually ends up with people making judgments based on another person's experience aka Benny Hinn's.

BH has to answer to God, not me or you. I can't convince him that what he is doing is right or wrong. Only God can do that and he has done that.

As for your claim that since there is exceeding little evidence to support that they're happening today I assume that they are no longer necessary.

First assumption is the worst form of decision-making.

Second, every day somewhere in the world a miracle takes place, just not in your backyard and just because it does not happen in your backyard does not mean that it does not happen. That is a purely subjective judgment. I have seen a few, read about a few, and been involved in making a few happen, so I am not jaundiced like you. My experience has brought a young man back to life.

The scripture says to seek me and you shall find me. I am doing that all the time because that keeps me from focussing on what other people do or do not do.

You wrongly assume that I am a cessationist. I certainly am not.
Likewise you wrongly assume that I am contrary to the reality and principle of miracles working today. Likewise I certainly am not.

What I am saying is that the required prima facie evidence is scanty, scarce and suspiciously evasive. Furthermore the worst of the worst snake oil selling bogus preachers are by and large Pentecostals. And Benny Hinn is an outrageous fraud, headed for eternal damnation if he does not repent,

 

[ResidentAlien]

Second, every day somewhere in the world a miracle takes place,

Are we supposed to just take your word for it?

 

[A-Sword-Cometh]

No denominational church is going by God's structure as denominations or their equivalent is condemned in scripture.

Exactly, that's why Pandemonium follows in their wake, and they have all sorts of signs of it and tell tale problems

 

[mustaphadrink]

Are we supposed to just take your word for it?

I do not know what that is supposed to mean but it is there if you care to look for it.

 

[mustaphadrink]

You wrongly assume that I am a cessationist. I certainly am not.
Likewise you wrongly assume that I am contrary to the reality and principle of miracles working today. Likewise I certainly am not.

What I am saying is that the required prima facie evidence is scanty, scarce and suspiciously evasive. Furthermore the worst of the worst snake oil selling bogus preachers are by and large Pentecostals. And Benny Hinn is an outrageous fraud, headed for eternal damnation if he does not repent,

Bennie Hinn has repented. Is there anything else you would like him to do?

 

[ResidentAlien]

I do not know what that is supposed to mean but it is there if you care to look for it.

I don't know how you can't understand it; it's quite clear. You made a claim and I asked if can substantiate it with anything other than your word.

 

[mustaphadrink]

I don't know how you can't understand it; it's quite clear. You made a claim and I asked if can substantiate it with anything other than your word.

Put it this way. I have about 50 books and articles about modern-day miracles. I personally have been involved in the miracle of healing. I have books that tell the story of Jesus appearing to Muslims in the night and as a result, they have become born-again believers.

In other words, all you need to do is open your eyes, read a few books, look up the internet, and walla! there is all the evidence you need.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Bennie Hinn has repented. Is there anything else you would like him to do?

Benny Hinn didn't repent. He said some words like Jim Bakker said some words. Hinn's still out there conning people. Compare this with the true repentance of Zacchaeus:

"Then Zacchaeus stood and said to the Lord, 'Look, Lord, I give half of my goods to the poor; and if I have taken anything from anyone by false accusation, I restore fourfold.' "

 

[ResidentAlien]

Put it this way. I have about 50 books and articles about modern-day miracles. I personally have been involved in the miracle of healing. I have books that tell the story of Jesus appearing to Muslims in the night and as a result, they have become born-again believers.

In other words, all you need to do is open your eyes, read a few books, look up the internet, and walla! there is all the evidence you need.

In other words, all you have is your word, still.