Who is a Jew?
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Unless that blood proves back to a patriarch, they have no land to claim, as the land over the Jordan was dispensed by Tribe.
All other things may be forged, and of course those could be as well. Now, I'm faced with a problem.
A non-believer, Enemy of God, Enemy of Christ, is making a claim.
While I have orders from Jesus to behave in Love, I ought never fool myself.
You can love without accepting or rejecting their claim. If their claim is that God gave them the land, and it is honest, then He will give it. If it turns out they are usurpers claiming title to that which belongs to another, God will rout them out and give it to those He promised. We, as Christians, need not play a part.
We've already proven they must be usurpers, at the least wild hypocrites, killing for a claim they offer but cannot support.
Can we prove they are usurpers? I'm not sure we can. I'm fairly sure they can't prove they are legitimate. So to me, it seems prudent to not get involved, and allow God to either honour his promises (if the claims are legitimate), or to defend His Name against blasphemers (if the claims are not).
Then is it much simpler seeing as the Lord Jesus has established the jews in the land of their ancestors, and it would seem then also if each tribe is to have his portion that if anything then they must needs to take all of the land then and expel the sons of Hagar and throw the slavewoman's children out of the land for they may not be heirs with the Princesses' son.
That would be reasonable, but the US is involved, which means I am. Unless I am to agree I am living in a nation that is no longer We The People.
We give about $5000 per israeli per year, in just one of the dozens of grants and programs we have sending that country things. For Asian prices, that's fantastically wealthy. For Israel prices, that's still enough to buy groceries for the whole year, including beef and milk and cheese.
Simpler vs truth.
The claim is made by people who don't follow the law of Moses in their acts, don't have lineage proof of contact, they have only their word that this must be, because they have "faith.' Not much, if I am to look at Moses for their outline.
As a Christian, I am taking the word of a sinner, an enemy of God, at face value for my actions. This is what Jesus says I am to do, in some limited form. Does that mean I forget that he's compelling yet me the first mile?
Well it is because they do not follow Moses then that Moses himself will be the one that condemns them as appointed by the King Jesus. Probably why they cannot easily push Hagar's wicked children out of the land and possess all of it in fullness yet.
Those who are supposedly Hagar's children include millions of Christians. Or did.
Well they can still be Christian in their race's own land, they could even possibly turn the tide and get the other arabs to convert away from islam if they returned in the millions to arabia.
You asked the question: "If i were to adopt you to be my child would i become part of your family? Or would you become part of mine?"
I believe Paul answered that here:
Rom 11:16 And if the firstfruit is holy, so is the lump: and if the root is holy, so are the branches.
Rom 11:17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and thou, being a wild olive, wast grafted in among them, and didst become partaker with them of the root of the fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:18 glory not over the branches: but if thou gloriest, it is not thou that bearest the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, Branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
Rom 11:20 Well; by their unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by thy faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 for if God spared not the natural branches, neither will he spare thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold then the goodness and severity of God: toward them that fell, severity; but toward thee, God's goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they continue not in their unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if thou wast cut out of that which is by nature a wild olive tree, and wast grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree; how much more shall these, which are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
The root of the tree is Jesus Christ. (Rev 22:16).
The branches broken off - are some of the Jews.
The wild/natural branches grafted into the tree - are the Gentile believers.
The two key verses as to your question, are:
Rom 11:17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and thou, being a wild olive, wast grafted in among them, and didst become partaker with them of the root of the fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:24 For if thou wast cut out of that which is by nature a wild olive tree, and wast grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree; how much more shall these, which are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
Since the Gentiles have become partakers with them, obviously, the Gentiles have been adopted into their family, their tree and their root. For He (Christ) is the first fruit and they (Jews) are the first fruits. However, both are adopted into God's family by Grace and not the works of the Law.
Who is to say that this isn't their land?
Since nobody can prove anything except Middle Easterner?
These are middle easterners, often with as jewish looking a nose and face as any Talmudist on earth. They're just Christians, who didn't ask for, or desire, a Talmudist government.
Here are a few thoughts. I want to zero in, on your last paragraph, of your original post.
You said:
Both of these bring more questions, and I find few answers.
More troubling, the Gospels and subsequent instructional letters, seem to infer that the Christian is now Israel, meaning that Jerusalem is actually the home of every Church on earth.
Does this mean we should seek to move to Israel and make it ours? To which tribe would we claim blood line?
You are troubled because of an improper teaching or understanding of the Eschatological events. If you are an A-Millennialist, then the confusion you expressed, will be prevalent. Passages of the OT do not fit properly into the NT teachings. However, as a Premillennialist all is well. The church is not Israel and Israel is not the church.
Also, there are two aspects of the church, which Christ is building. The Universal aspect and the local aspect. All believers are members of the Universal church but not all believers are members of the local church - at any one given time. The local church, is the visible manifestation of the Universal church. The local church, can be deceived, can have divisions, can be defeated and can and do die off. However, the Universal church, will never be defeated and will one day be complete, in holy perfection.
The completed Universal church, one day, will have it's home in the New Jerusalem. Therefore, some of the promises found in Scripture are for the local aspect of the church and some are for the Universal aspect of the church. We, as believers, must properly discern which is which. The same could be said about the coming Kingdom or Israel's final state. There are unfulfilled promises to Israel and there are unfulfilled promises to Christ's church.
A-millennialist, to some extent, think they are bringing in the Kingdom for God. They spiritualize passages that should be taken literally. The kingdom of God is spiritual in it's nature but will be physical in it's manifestation. Just as the local church is a spiritual body but is physically manifested on the earth, so too, the final aspect of the Kingdom.
God, through Christ, will place it in Israel and defeat it's enemies - we do not need to relocate or take Israel.
Satan, through Demons and dupes, will place himself in Israel, and defeat it's enemies - we do not need to join Satan.
There is one new man in Christ.
Jesus is the true israel, and us in Him.
K
kaylagrl
Guest
K
kaylagrl
Guest
No, not true. God said He would gather the Jews back to Israel from all corners of the earth. Physical Israel. He made an unconditional covenant with Abraham, and He will fulfill it.
Sorry, but I am not sure what that is even getting at. Satan defeating enemies in Israel? Joining Satan? What?????
Sadly, it seems that many have difficulty with Romans 9-11. Both in what it teaches about Election and the future of Israel. But let us be thankful, He has revealed it to us and be prayerful for the rest.