Who is a Jew?

kaylagrl · Jul 26, 2022

That post wasn't to you, a little heat with another poster. But I agree, the Jews certainly were disobedient and stiff necked, that is why they lost use of the land. But they never lost the deed.

oyster67 · Jul 26, 2022

jaybo said:

You seem to understand better than you think you do. (BTW, I made that term up all by me-self

.)
I am so glad that you are a twice-born Jew.

jaybo · Jul 26, 2022

oyster67 said:

That makes two of us! Even though I followed the recipe for Jews it did me no good. I came to believe that God was simply a myth and became an outspoken atheist. I argued vehemently against Christianity and -> had to read the Bible to defend my arguments <- Then I was healed in the hospital when a pastor with whom I had been arguing prayed "Jesus, heal this man" and I was immediately healed physically, mentally, and spiritually.

I have been a sincere, believing, Bible-reading Christian for 45+ years!

Pilgrimshope · Jul 26, 2022

oyster67 said:

Amen the “condition “ or rather blessing is to accept the gospel

“Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:6-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

…Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:8-9, 16, 26-27, 29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul isn’t creating this thinking b referring to aBrahmans life after ishmael is cast out of Abraham’s inheritance isaac the second born is recognized as Abraham’s only son because God promised he would be borne he was born against all natural
Odds just because the creator declares it

“And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, and said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: that in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭22:15-18‬ ‭

Abraham’s seed of promise that all
Nations would be blessed through

“The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:14‬ ‭

“And the gospel must first be published among all nations.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭13:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus is the condition and the lord who sets the conditions in the gospel For instance

“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s the law of Christs eternal
Kingdom being preached what we call bc Dorian’s are set by his covenant word from the time he receives the holy spirit and began preaching the gospel forst to israel ho rejected it then he died and rose from tbat national rejection and sent a remnant of israel Who had believed out into the world to spread the message of his kingdom to all

first Jesus preached to only isreal but after they killed him he sent his apostles out tomoresch to all people the same messa they rejected the gospel of his kingdom

Nehemiah6 · Jul 26, 2022

kaylagrl said:

Correct. We has been seeing a lot of that lately. Mostly unprofitable nonsense.

The_Watchers_2017 · Jul 26, 2022

Grandpa said:

Zechariah 12:10 “Then I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication, when they will look toward Me whom they pierced. They will mourn for him as one mourns for an only son and grieve bitterly for him, as one grieves for a firstborn.
and
Matthew 23:39 For I tell you, you will never see Me again until you say, ‘Baruch ha-ba b’shem ADONAI. Blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD!

Pilgrimshope · Jul 26, 2022

kaylagrl said:

what deed are you talking about ?

Your saying this equates to “ they lost use of the land “

“But if ye will not hearken unto me, and will not do all these commandments; ( condition ) and if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant:

( promised result ) I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it. And I will set my face against you, and ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and ye shall flee when none pursueth you.”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭26:14-17‬ ‭

“And I will send the sword, the famine, and the pestilence, among them, till they be consumed from off the land that I gave unto them and to their fathers.”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭24:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins. And I will break the pride of your power; and I will make your heaven as iron, and your earth as brass: and your strength shall be spent in vain: for your land shall not yield her increase, neither shall the trees of the land yield their fruits. And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken unto me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins. I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number; and your high ways shall be desolate. And if ye will not be reformed by me by these things, but will walk contrary unto me; then will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet seven times for your sins. And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall avenge the quarrel of my covenant: and when ye are gathered together within your cities, I will send the pestilence among you; and ye shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy.”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭26:18-25‬ ‭

that’s bout 3 percent of the cirses for breaking his covenant it ends up
Here

“The virgin of Israel is fallen; she shall no more rise: she is forsaken upon her land; there is none to raise her up.”
‭‭Amos‬ ‭5:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it just says what it says and it says no where in scriptire that israel would “ lose use of the land “ But the rest of what he said would come to pass it all Will and has and still is

Pilgrimshope · Jul 26, 2022

awelight said:

“What does any of this, have to do with the FUTURE relationship of Israel?”

the scriptures regarding the Hebrew people and how they became isreal ? Thier covenant with God that led the world to Christ ? Your asking what that has to do with it lol?

are you being serious ? This is onosreel
Is this is the creation of Israel

“And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭35:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jacob had twelve sons “ the children of Israel and twelve heads of the tribes that make the nation of Israel. “ Jacob ( Israel ) was given land in Egypt during a famine , his people went into the land numbering Seventy him his wife , twelves sons and children.

they aren’t a nation yet because the word to Abram the Hebrew of the flesh had to be fulfilled

“And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not their's, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;

and also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.

And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age. But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full. And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭15:13-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That is what the book of exodus is about ( Jacob ) israel and his children being enslaved and persecuted in Egypt four hundred years and then he would judge Egypt and deliver abrams descendants into the land he had promised abram he would give his descendants

The rest of Moses books Deuteronomy , Leviticus , and numbers is the count of what happens after God delivered israel now many in number and substance just as he told Abraham , from slavery in Egypt at the end of Moses life he died before he got to enter the land but the children of the people who died in the desert thy y got to enter the promised land led by Joshua .

Moses law is the literal document of the relationship between Old Testament israel and God and you don’t see a connection really ?

I don’t think we’ll get anywhere I believe what’s written in the Bible from beginning to end is what defines Gods word and am not here to argue over thkngs like the law of Moses shaving no connection to mistakes relationship with God it makes up the entire foundation for being able To actually understand every subject we “ debate “ in the New Testament

the Bible isn’t a bunch of random verses but full comprehensive book authored and purposed by God to be so readily available to anyone who wants to read it .

it’s God telling man everything we need to understand form the beginning of the earth until it’s bitter end and everything between

We need to accept it all to understand much at all because it’s one cohesive fluid plan unfolding from mankind’s fall
Into sin and death until the redemption of man through Christ in the gospel

without hearing the law and prophets one can never fully grasp the gospel without the law we can’t know anything at all about Israel they would t even exist if not for what unfolds in the Old Testament scriptures in Moses writings thoer law

but it’s okay if you don’t see it I didn’t expect you would see a connection to anything else but what your “ explaining “ to avoid all the scripture

pottersclay · Jul 26, 2022

I have to say this thread does get heated up from time to time lol, but so does this subject.
So why does this subject get heated up and debated so much? The jew vrs the gentile. Christianity vrs Judisim.

God was not surprised about Israels
rejection of his son. The prophets fortold about it. Where would we be if they received him? Would salvation still be offered to the gentiles?
Have you considered the jewish people as a example of the dos and donts in your walk with CHRIST?
According to the bible the muslim and Arab are kin (brothers) to the jews......(intresting).
We know God destroyed pharaohs army but not Egypt. In fact thats where joseph and mary fled
to escape the killing of the innocent....(also intresting)...just like to point out Egypt has a high percentage of christians in its populas today. It is also worthy to note that Egypt is favored by God along with Israel.
When God told abraham he would be the father of many nations, kindred and tongue he keeps his word.
So which direction is God walking to and are you following along? These days are exciting times as God is moving ever so quickly to fulfill his promises.
So who is a jew? Those who follow and serve and beleive the God of the Hebrews.
So what is a christian? Born again by the Spirit of God by grace a new creature redeemed by the blood of the lamb.
What do they have in common? ..The God of the Hebrews. Seed of Abraham. Children of God.

awelight · Jul 27, 2022

Pilgrimshope said:

Thanks again for your reply. You made some good points about Israel and her relationship to the Covenant Lord. However, this magnifies Israel's past relationship and I was speaking of her future relationship. God chose Israel, to be His favored nation, by which the message and the Law would flow. God could have chosen any nation He would of liked but He chose Israel. Not because of anything they had done, nor because they were the largest or the most powerful. Indeed Scripture says they were small and insignificant, as the world judges things.

As touching Salvation - the nation thought they had it made. After all, they had the Word of God, the Prophets and the Law. Not realizing, that all of Israel is not Israel (Rom. 9:6-8). Therefore, God had a chosen nation - out of the nations of the world and He had chosen individuals within that nation. The nation was blessed to be the conduit by which God worked through. The Elected Jews were blessed to receive Redemption.

Nevertheless, Israel, as a nation, was set aside because of her unfaithfulness and the local Church became the present day conduit by which the message flows. This brings us into the present but what about the future? The first thing we should understand is this, just as the nation of Israel corrupted the Pure Word of Truth - a time is coming, wherein the local Church will corrupt the Pure Word and now is. However - this is very important - at no time WAS or IS the Pure Word of Truth being corrupted by God's called out ones. It was/is corrupted by the blind religionist in Israel (Rom. 11:28-31). The same could be said for the local churches.

Now as to the future. God will restore His people, into the land of promise. Wherein, they will have peace and joy and rest. This has not yet been fulfilled. They went into Cannon but because of their unfaithfulness, never received peace and rest. A land Kingdom, has always been promised to them. Amos 9:15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be plucked up out of their land which I have given them, says Jehovah thy God.

However, the Universal Church, which was foreshadowed in the Levites, has no "land" promise. Deu_18:1 The priests the Levites, even all the tribe of Levi, shall have no portion nor inheritance with Israel: they shall eat the offerings of Jehovah made by fire, and his inheritance. The Lord was their inheritance, for He took them rather than the first-born. The Levites were responsible for the maintenance and proper keeping, of the worship service. Just as, the local church is today. They had many High Priests. We have only one - Jesus Christ - who is after the order of Melchizedek.

Let me ask you this - how do you understand the following? In particular - verses 5 & 6?

Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, the old serpent, which is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 and cast him into the abyss, and shut it, and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, until the thousand years should be finished: after this he must be loosed for a little time.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: over these the second death hath no power; but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 and shall come forth to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to the war: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up over the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

peldom10 · Jul 27, 2022

Pilgrimshope said:

“I am not going to respond, in detail because I would have to write a book but would like to interject this thought.”

why not just say “ I don’t like long posts “ Rather than the veil ?

I’m just going to do this and see if it helps

“The method of Salvation - whether it be Old Testament or New Testament age - is always the same.”

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s the New Testament that can save people the Old Testament shows us why we need to be saved in the first place it’s about this

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the New Testament works opposite of that imputing of sin and began at Jerusalemwith Jesus teaching the apostles then sending them out to all
People

“and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:47‬ ‭

That’s why the law was given that’s Israel’s old covenant the law of
Moses that says “ this is sin, you shalt not do this , or you will surely die “

It gives the knowledge of sin and makes a sinner guilty and condemns them , like this

“ this is sin do not do it “says Moses covenant law

“Thou shalt not commit adultery.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Or you will surely die “ says Moses law

“And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭20:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that cannot save a sinner it can only inform of and point out the sin , make the person aware of thier guilt and accuse and condemn the sinner to death.

this in John 8 with the adulterous woman caug he in adultery , could not have happened under the Old Testament law which is itself thier covenant it tells the All the rules and the. Says “ if you obey all
I commanded you youll Be blessed and dwell in the land I gave you “

But if you stray from my commandments and worship other gods I will utterly destroy and curse you until you are destroyed and consummed from off the land I gave your fathers.

a covenant is Simply an official agreement between two parties and a covenant has a mediator or a “ go between “ it’s based on what the greater says to the other he speaks it to the mediator , the mediator to the other covenant partner, the covenant partner agrees Like this

this was how thier covenant was given nite there’s always two parts God tells man what to do and know and trust in and the. Tells Man what he will do in response if they hear and believe his word

“And the LORD commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day. And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭6:24-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The old covenant made with israel through Moses never saved anyone even Moses does for a single transgression

salvstion writes God to be made flesh himself in the form of the son and to lay down his life to pay our debt to sin because of the knowledge of the law that says “ all Have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God , and so all are condemned by sin “

that’s why Jesus had to come and be a man and die to fulfill the word of death to sinners in the law for those who receive him

salvation was determined from Ten beginning but not re else’s until Jesus came born of a virgin like the prophets foretold , received the holy spirit like they said he would and told
Man out salvstion and offered man eternal Life

We can’t be saved by the Old Testament it lead us to the savior , we have to go to the gospel to be saved the ot was foretelling the gospel leading the world to Jesus where we have to be saved

I never agree with hyper grace doctrine I recognize from Joseph prince theology though just saying

When I study a post I like to see a conclusion. With respect.......step right up there and herald it out.....you are saying what?
One ten word sentence will suffice.

Pilgrimshope · Jul 27, 2022

peldom10 said:

“One ten word sentence will suffice.”

that’s the issue God didn’t speak ten words that explain the issue you have tinker the scripture make the clear clusion like this instead of trying to argue and control how many words someone else speaks in a few discussion forum that has its own word limit for posts already established, and doesn’t need you to decide how many words another can use try to let the massive amounts of clear scripture lead you to a conclusion

Of you want to communicate in ten word sentences I’m not a good person to most attention to it’s never going to be that , because I do t cknsoder a single verse but try to look at what the message is consistently from beginning to end

I’m ok if you do t agree with anything f I have to say , it’s a discussion forum , but to be clear you have no authority or place trying to number how many words another person uses in this forum there is an established limit already

if you don’t like reading more than a sentance look for posts less than a sentance and try to have a fruitful conversation in ten word sentences but it isnt going to ever lead anywhere and I’m definetely Not interested InThat type of communication.

I think you should use as many words as you want within the limit and everyone else should also . And if someone does t like to read more than acouple sentences they should just interact with those posts sort of exist and let the other people exist within the rules of the public forum here seems reasonable

I’m not looking for condemsed
summary opinions , and you are which is totally fine but it’s not going to work for me brother so I hope you find some good short posts to interact peacefully with

peldom10 · Jul 27, 2022

Pilgrimshope said:

“One ten word sentence will suffice.”

that’s the issue God didn’t speak ten words that explain the issue you have tinker the scripture make the clear clusion like this instead of trying to argue and control how many words someone else speaks in a few discussion forum that has its own word limit for posts already established, and doesn’t need you to decide how many words another can use try to let the massive amounts of clear scripture lead you to a conclusion

Of you want to communicate in ten word sentences I’m not a good person to most attention to it’s never going to be that , because I do t cknsoder a single verse but try to look at what the message is consistently from beginning to end

I’m ok if you do t agree with anything f I have to say , it’s a discussion forum , but to be clear you have no authority or place trying to number how many words another person uses in this forum there is an established limit already

if you don’t like reading more than a sentance look for posts less than a sentance and try to have a fruitful conversation in ten word sentences but it isnt going to ever lead anywhere and I’m definetely Not interested InThat type of communication.

I think you should use as many words as you want within the limit and everyone else should also . And if someone does t like to read more than acouple sentences they should just interact with those posts sort of exist and let the other people exist within the rules of the public forum here seems reasonable

I’m not looking for condemsed
summary opinions , and you are which is totally fine but it’s not going to work for me brother so I hope you find some good short posts to interact peacefully with

Do you have a short decision you can share.
There wasn't one.

kaylagrl · Jul 28, 2022

Pilgrimshope said:

This is the unconditional covenant God made with Abraham

Now the Lord said1 to Abram, “Go from your country and your kindred and your father’s house to the land that I will show you. 2 And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. 3 I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”

He gave him a literal land

18 On that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, y“To your offspring I give3 this land, from zthe river of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates, 19 the land of the Kenites, the Kenizzites, the Kadmonites, 20 the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, 21 the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites and the Jebusites.”

The land promise was forever

15 for all the land that you see I will give to you and to your offspring forever.

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Who is a Jew?

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