Three Questions for Calvinists

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Polar

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#141
#141
ForestGreenCook said:
If the unregenerate person ever does, listen to spiritual messages he will not discern what he is hearing. He most likely would not stop to listen.
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Well either that unregenerate person is listening or according to you, not listening?

Sounds as confusing as TULIP :unsure::cautious:

Sadly some folks listen to spiritual messages that are not from God. However there is hope. One has only to believe that God calls all to repentance, notwithstanding some respond negatively. This does not mean God created them to party with the devil in the lake of fire.

If Calvinism is true, (which of course it isn't), then God alone wills and brings about His will. If it is His will that all men may be saved, then who hinders Him?

"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." II Peter 3:9​
Do Calvinists believe God is also confused on the matter?
 
The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

Banned
#142
Jun 20, 2022
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#142
ForestGreenCook said:
If the unregenerate person ever does, listen to spiritual messages he will not discern what he is hearing. He most likely would not stop to listen.
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every sinner i've personally saw come to Christ also did not understand but felt a sense of wrong for their sins. then they felt the tug of God to repent. it was not until after this process and reading the Word they become understanding. I don't know of any example that happened another way. and i have personally witnessed hundreds of sinners coming to God.
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#143
Jul 8, 2018
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#143
Iconoclast said:
No one will listen or believe unless God enables them to. We do not stumble on this. We believe what God has revealed in scripture.
Only those who hear the gospel have an opportunity,

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
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Verse 13 - This is a salvation (deliverance) received here in this world, not eternal inheritance. The instructions to elders (preachers) from God are to preach to those who are newly born children, instructing them as to how God wants them to live their lives as they sojourn here in this world.
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#144
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#144
Polar said:
Well either that unregenerate person is listening or according to you, not listening?

Sounds as confusing as TULIP :unsure::cautious:

Sadly some folks listen to spiritual messages that are not from God. However there is hope. One has only to believe that God calls all to repentance, notwithstanding some respond negatively. This does not mean God created them to party with the devil in the lake of fire.

If Calvinism is true, (which of course it isn't), then God alone wills and brings about His will. If it is His will that all men may be saved, then who hinders Him?

"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." II Peter 3:9​
Do Calvinists believe God is also confused on the matter?
Click to expand...
Did you notice that Peter included himself in his message to "them that have obtained like precious faith" (2 Peter 3:1) telling them to repent when they have commited a sin that they might not lose their fellowship with their God.
 
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Polar

Guest
#145
#145
ForestGreenCook said:
Did you notice that Peter included himself in his message to "them that have obtained like precious faith" (2 Peter 3:1) telling them to repent when they have commited a sin that they might not lose their fellowship with their God.
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did you notice what I actually posted and prefer not to respond so threw your understanding into the mix to prove what cannot be proved?
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#146
Jul 8, 2018
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#146
The_Watchers_2017 said:
every sinner i've personally saw come to Christ also did not understand but felt a sense of wrong for their sins. then they felt the tug of God to repent. it was not until after this process and reading the Word they become understanding. I don't know of any example that happened another way. and i have personally witnessed hundreds of sinners coming to God.
Click to expand...
The un-regenerant person still has his stony heart, that cannot be "pricked" to feel guilty of breaking a spiritual law that he cannot discern, and thinks it to be foolishness. A good example of this is found in Acts 2:37 and Acts 7"54. Those regenerant men, that had their fleshy hearts pricked on the day of pentecost responded by saying "men and brethren, what shall we do?", In contrast those un-regenerant men, who still had the stony heart, that could not be pricked to feel guilty, hearing the same message that Peter taught being taught from Steven, were "cut" to the heart and their response was to gnash on Steven with their teeth.
 
The_Watchers_2017

The_Watchers_2017

Banned
#148
Jun 20, 2022
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#148
ForestGreenCook said:
The un-regenerant person still has his stony heart, that cannot be "pricked" to feel guilty of breaking a spiritual law that he cannot discern, and thinks it to be foolishness. A good example of this is found in Acts 2:37 and Acts 7"54. Those regenerant men, that had their fleshy hearts pricked on the day of pentecost responded by saying "men and brethren, what shall we do?", In contrast those un-regenerant men, who still had the stony heart, that could not be pricked to feel guilty, hearing the same message that Peter taught being taught from Steven, were "cut" to the heart and their response was to gnash on Steven with their teeth.
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the unregenerant person is well aware of their sin. they have just committed it enough times and ignored the Spirit of God. like a person raised from birth in a church and spent their life in church but never became a follower of Christ. they know when and how to act and play the part during service, even though come monday through saturday they are complete atheistic hellions.
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#150
Jul 8, 2018
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#150
Polar said:
did you notice what I actually posted and prefer not to respond so threw your understanding into the mix to prove what cannot be proved?
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Good answer, when you think it cannot, by the scriptures, be proven wrong.
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#152
Jul 8, 2018
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#152
The_Watchers_2017 said:
the unregenerant person is well aware of their sin. they have just committed it enough times and ignored the Spirit of God. like a person raised from birth in a church and spent their life in church but never became a follower of Christ. they know when and how to act and play the part during service, even though come monday through saturday they are complete atheistic hellions.
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All of God's regenerant people do commit sins at various times and are chastened by God and repent, which brings about a deliverance (salvation) that they receive here in this world.
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#155
May 24, 2014
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#155
Bluesproverb said:
And Jesus wouldn't have taught in parables so that not all could understand and be saved.
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Only the hardhearted and arrogant had deaf ears. Parables aid the understanding of the meek and humble.

Matthew 11:25

“At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.”
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#156
May 24, 2014
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#156
ForestGreenCook said:
Explain 1 Cor 2:14.
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ForestGreenCook said:
Explain 1 Cor 2:14.
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13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.



This is talking about teaching and instruction, not salvation. God's desire is that all should come.

2 Peter 3:9

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
 
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Bluesproverb

Banned
#157
Jun 28, 2022
1,258
383
83
#157
Polar said:
Well either that unregenerate person is listening or according to you, not listening?

Sounds as confusing as TULIP :unsure::cautious:

Sadly some folks listen to spiritual messages that are not from God. However there is hope. One has only to believe that God calls all to repentance, notwithstanding some respond negatively. This does not mean God created them to party with the devil in the lake of fire.

If Calvinism is true, (which of course it isn't), then God alone wills and brings about His will. If it is His will that all men may be saved, then who hinders Him?

"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." II Peter 3:9​
Do Calvinists believe God is also confused on the matter?
Click to expand...
I'm not Calvanist. I also don't ignore parts of the bible in order to make a case against it.

Calvinism is older than its namesake. It's also taking from scripture to form the doctrine.

Whosoever, none should perish, and so forth, when reading about who God saves I think has to be taken in context to what God said about who he saved before creating people. Or the world.

All that God intends to save can only be those God told us he elected for salvation before creating this world.

If everyone could come to saving grace Jesus wouldn't have delivered the good news in a manner he admitted not everyone was to understand. Because not everyone was meant to understand. Which means they weren't elected for salvation. As Jesus also said.

If everyone is meant to be saved God could manifest that in an instant. Just as easily as he condemned everyone, everyone, in the future to die in the sins the first man brought into the world.

Two of the first people. And God condemned everyone to ever live after that for sin that entered the world by one man.
He could just as easily save the whole world that was condemned by one man and Godin an instant. And bring that whole world salvation due to the death of one man.

But he didn't.

Jesus and God both show not everyone is intended by God to be saved. This was his will before the world was created.

God bestows faith and salvation upon his elect. As a free irrevocable gift of his grace. We do nothing. It's God that does it.Not us.
oyster67 said:
Only the hardhearted and arrogant had deaf ears. Parables aid the understanding of the meek and humble.

Matthew 11:25

“At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.”
Click to expand...
That's not what Jesus said about why he taught in parables.
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#159
Jul 8, 2018
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#159
oyster67 said:
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.



This is talking about teaching and instruction, not salvation. God's desire is that all should come.

2 Peter 3:9

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
Click to expand...
Peter is speaking to them that have obtained like precious faith. (2 Pet 1:1). Peter is even including himself by using the word "usward". his warning was that if any of them commits a sin, then they should repent in order to stay in good fellowship with their God. The word "perish" meaning" dead, meaning a separation, meaning a separation from God's fellowship.
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#160
Jul 8, 2018
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#160
Bluesproverb said:
Unless God intends it.
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Your comment hints of eternal salvation made possible by man's good works. There is only one way that the un-regenerant person can be delivered to heaven and that is, while the un-regenerant is still spiritually dead in his sins, God by his sovereign grace, quickens him to a spiritual life (Eph 2:1-5.)
 
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