Not By Works

[Phoneman-777]

You noticed it too?

I cannot believe how SO MANY grace filled Christians backslide and then went on a huge murdering spree lately, who would have thought they could become such criminals.

One minute they are proclaiming how they are eternally saved and free from the burden of self-righteousness and dead works and then BOOM over night they become deranged murders. It is really quite baffling.

I just wonder who issued the license to them to do that!!
God forbid that grace should abound where sin abounds, just makes no sense.

There was a goodly man, obedient, humble, with whom was God and also who had God's Spirit and did prophesy...And remember: if any man hath not the Spirit of God, he is none of His and God gives His Spirit to them that obey Him, right?

That man was King Saul, who started out humble and obedient and loved his God, but went off the deep end. Slaughtered entire villages of prophets, chased after God's anointed, sought the counsel of a satanic witch - persisted so in steadfast rebellion until finally God wouldn't speak to him anymore.

Yes, another example of why a saved man can wind up lost.

 

[Phoneman-777]

But you have no life to offer do you ... if you did that would be your message

I offer the truth, which is Jesus, Who is the "way the truth and the life".

Nor do you keep the 10 commandments to the standard it demands ... whining? hypocritical? presumptuous? [how can I break this gently to you]

"Blessed are they which do His commandments that they may have right to the Tree of Life".

When you set yourself as judge over God's people, there is no such ministry in the church, that was OT, they had the law therefore they must needs have judges to to apportion blame and administer the penalties for every breech of the law. But you have set yourself up as judge, you are claiming you are perfect, without sin for only one who is perfect can judge.

I don't judge, I merely inspect fruit, and the fruit of your OSAS doctrine is rotten. Exposing the unfruitful works of darkness is our duty, according to Ephesians 5:11 KJV.

Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all your heart and mind and strength but you do not and yet upon this, and the other. love thy neighbour as thyself, which also you do not, hang ALL the law and prophets. You see by this how hopeless your case is.

You can't say you love God if worship Satan, partake in idolatry, blasphemy, and refuse to keep the Sabbath holy - "If ye love Me, keep My commandments".

The law holds a mirror up so you can see yourself but it has no power to change your image, the purpose of the law is to make you flee to God for mercy. That's what we did ... and we found it too.

What sloppy scholarship this is. The law holds NOTHING up - the law itself IS the mirror that we, ourselves are to look into to see if we need cleansing from the dirt of breaking it. When we do, we run to Jesus.

Luther said the law constantly sent him to Jesus and Jesus constantly sent him to the law, continuously. Isn't that what James said? Whoever looks into the law and continues therein is blessed in his deed, not like you all with your hearer- only lip service.

 

[Oncefallen]

For the record: Phoneman-777 and Snacks are going to be taking a little break. It is reprehensible when two supposed brothers in Christ feel the need to resort to outright disgusting character attacks and innuendo due to a doctrinal dispute.

 

[Grandpa]

Where does it say in Genesis "God rested the 7th day because of what Christ will give"?

It plainly says He rested, blessed, and sanctified the seventh day "because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made".

Again, the weekly seventh day Sabbath rest was no shadow pointing to the future at all -- it was created as a memorial to the previous six days Creation before sin entered the world and cast its shadow of spiritual darkness, when all was light.

Colossians 2:16-17
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


The scripture plainly says sabbath days and holy days are a shadow of things to come.

Do you reject plain scripture because of your desire to work at the 10 commandments?


2 Corinthians 3:14-15
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.


Do you think this blindness makes them reject scripture because of their desire to work at the 10 commandments?

 

[Evmur]

Please stop with the "he was never saved" OK? That's a subjective claim with no Scripture backing it. In fact:

• it sets you up in the Judgment Seat of Christ
• only God knows the hearts of men
• setting oneself up in that Judgment Seat is the very definition of "anti-christos"- surely you don't want that

Ours is to merely inspect one another's fruit and in love smack each other when that fruit fails inspection, according to righteous King David (Psalms 141:5 KJV). Moreover, you can't appeal to "...born of God, he cannot sin..." because that begs the question, "Why does the OSAS crowd insist they can't stop sinning?

John says no one who is a murderer has eternal life dwelling in him.

... ah ... fruit inspector ... you mean nosey parker, busybody.

Judger of God's people, accuser of the brethren.

 

[Evmur]

Please stop with the "he was never saved" OK? That's a subjective claim with no Scripture backing it. In fact:

• it sets you up in the Judgment Seat of Christ
• only God knows the hearts of men
• setting oneself up in that Judgment Seat is the very definition of "anti-christos"- surely you don't want that

Ours is to merely inspect one another's fruit and in love smack each other when that fruit fails inspection, according to righteous King David (Psalms 141:5 KJV). Moreover, you can't appeal to "...born of God, he cannot sin..." because that begs the question, "Why does the OSAS crowd insist they can't stop sinning?

You keep on about other people's sin, what about your sins? you go on about other people's fruit, your posts on this forum are your fruit.

 

[Evmur]

I offer the truth, which is Jesus, Who is the "way the truth and the life".
"Blessed are they which do His commandments that they may have right to the Tree of Life".
I don't judge, I merely inspect fruit, and the fruit of your OSAS doctrine is rotten. Exposing the unfruitful works of darkness is our duty, according to Ephesians 5:11 KJV.
You can't say you love God if worship Satan, partake in idolatry, blasphemy, and refuse to keep the Sabbath holy - "If ye love Me, keep My commandments".
What sloppy scholarship this is. The law holds NOTHING up - the law itself IS the mirror that we, ourselves are to look into to see if we need cleansing from the dirt of breaking it. When we do, we run to Jesus.

Luther said the law constantly sent him to Jesus and Jesus constantly sent him to the law, continuously. Isn't that what James said? Whoever looks into the law and continues therein is blessed in his deed, not like you all with your hearer- only lip service.

But you do not offer Jesus, neither do you offer His commandments, you offer Moses' commandments.

The law came by Moses but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ which we have all received grace upon grace.

If you had received grace that's what you would talk about, you received Moses' law and that is what you talk about.

You suppose you are made righteous by the keeping of Moses' law but you fail most miserably for you do not love the Lord thy God with all your heart and soul and strength nor do you love thy neighbour as yourself. You are the fruit inspector so will you not inspect your own fruit to see whether or not you have succeeded in this most important commandment?

... I'll tell you why you never answer this question, because if you said you did you know it would be a lie, you know it would be a lie and we know it would be a lie ... so you never answer.

... best to keep banging on the sabbath drum.

 

[SparkyGreg]

I find it amazing, that God said he saved us when we were at our worse. that people think AFTER we have been adopted as a child of God, Given the HS who helps giude us, and chastens us, that we can become WORSE that we were BEFORE we were saved.

That seem to be an impossible task. It basically says GOD totally failed in growing us, they even with his inluence and power. we went backward, NOT FORWARD.

Despite God's earnest desire to save, the power of the Gospel, and the Holy Spirit's work a Christian can go backward for a time. David sinned and tried to cover it up for a year. God brought him back to repentance. Peter denied his Lord, repented, and was restored.
It is also true that despite God's work through Word and Sacrament that people who once made a Christian confession and were active members end up denying their Lord. Even though faithful members and their Pastor reaches out to them to work repentance they are excommunicated from their church. That could be because they are living in sin or hold onto a false doctrine as well as just refuse to go to church or read His Word.
In both of the above the fault is not with God. It is listening to our flesh or the devil and ultimately making ourselves God. St. Paul's words in Romans 7 says it well " 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!" God does not fail we do by following our flesh or the devil.
Thus also the many admonitions to use His Word and Sacraments and guard against falling away. "So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall!" 1 Corinthians 10:12

 

[Evmur]

There was a goodly man, obedient, humble, with whom was God and also who had God's Spirit and did prophesy...And remember: if any man hath not the Spirit of God, he is none of His and God gives His Spirit to them that obey Him, right?

That man was King Saul, who started out humble and obedient and loved his God, but went off the deep end. Slaughtered entire villages of prophets, chased after God's anointed, sought the counsel of a satanic witch - persisted so in steadfast rebellion until finally God wouldn't speak to him anymore.

Yes, another example of why a saved man can wind up lost.

When Samuel appeared to Saul he said "this time tomorrow you will be with me here in this place"

Faithful Jonathan suffered the same fate as Saul .... neither did David share your assessment of Saul.

God punished Saul and He will punish backsliding and sin sometimes with the utmost severity however all this falls short of damnation.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Colossians 2:16-17
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


The scripture plainly says sabbath days and holy days are a shadow of things to come.

Do you reject plain scripture because of your desire to work at the 10 commandments?


2 Corinthians 3:14-15
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.


Do you think this blindness makes them reject scripture because of their desire to work at the 10 commandments?

I see you couldn't find it in Genesis where there it plainly gives the reason for the Sabbath -- "because in it God had rested" from the previous 6 days work of creation.

Memorial to the past, not a "shadow of things to come" like the Mosaic Law sabbath Feast Days which were nailed to the Cross.

 

[Phoneman-777]

John says no one who is a murderer has eternal life dwelling in him.

... ah ... fruit inspector ... you mean nosey parker, busybody.

Judger of God's people, accuser of the brethren.

No, I mean fruit inspector, just as it is your responsibility if you're a Christian. Who else is going to police the church to make sure heresy isn't allowed in? The State? No, it's OUR responsibility to ensure that, and the reason why so much heresy exists within the church is because it has been overrun by weak, cowardly, whiny excuses for men who incessantly argue "we can't keep the law" ... and everyone knows the best way to open the door to Satan is to close the door in God's face.

 

[Phoneman-777]

But you do not offer Jesus, neither do you offer His commandments, you offer Moses' commandments.
.

Who was it Who spoke the Ten Commandments at the top of Sinai? That's right: Jesus. That makes the Ten Commandments HIS commandments, not Moses' commandments...and I offer this day for you to turn from your rebellion against them to faithfulness to them.

 

[Phoneman-777]

When Samuel appeared to Saul he said "this time tomorrow you will be with me here in this place"

Faithful Jonathan suffered the same fate as Saul .... neither did David share your assessment of Saul.

God punished Saul and He will punish backsliding and sin sometimes with the utmost severity however all this falls short of damnation.

If you believed the Bible truth that God's people have authority over Satan, demons AND WITCHES, then you'd understand that wasn't Samuel who was compelled by the witch to appear to Saul because Satan's agents have no power to compel God's people to do anything...it was a demon impersonating Samuel...but because you refuse to believe in our authority over hell and that the dead "know not anything", you will continue to be deceived.

 

[Evmur]

Who was it Who spoke the Ten Commandments at the top of Sinai? That's right: Jesus. That makes the Ten Commandments HIS commandments, not Moses' commandments...and I offer this day for you to turn from your rebellion against them to faithfulness to them.

It was also Christ who said a new covenant I make not like the old covenant which ye break.

You REBEL always refusing the word of God. If He tells you mourn you refuse, if He tells you make merry you refuse.

 

[Evmur]

No, I mean fruit inspector, just as it is your responsibility if you're a Christian. Who else is going to police the church to make sure heresy isn't allowed in? The State? No, it's OUR responsibility to ensure that, and the reason why so much heresy exists within the church is because it has been overrun by weak, cowardly, whiny excuses for men who incessantly argue "we can't keep the law" ... and everyone knows the best way to open the door to Satan is to close the door in God's face.

You yourself are in heresy, will you not police yourself.

The Holy Ghost is very well able to police the church ... but He will do it in ways which you do not understand ... you need spiritual eyes and ears to see it.

 

[Grandpa]

I see you couldn't find it in Genesis where there it plainly gives the reason for the Sabbath -- "because in it God had rested" from the previous 6 days work of creation.

Memorial to the past, not a "shadow of things to come" like the Mosaic Law sabbath Feast Days which were nailed to the Cross.

So, it is your opinion that the Lord Jesus fulfilled PARTS of the Law but not all.

It is your opinion that the Lord Jesus fulfilled Mosaic Law Feast Days but not the Sabbath.

It is your opinion that Scripture, both Jesus and Paul, mis-spoke. Holy days and Sabbath days don't refer to the Sabbath in Colossians 2. The Lord didn't mean what He said in Matthew 5. Not one jot or one tittle shall fall from the Law until ALL is fulfilled.


Wouldn't you say that "Mosaic Law Feast Days" were jots and tittles from the Law??


Why would the Lord nail "feast days" to the Cross but not the Law that was against us? Seems dumb. If the Lord wanted us to celebrate memorials from the OT He would have left the feast days.

Why would the Lord get rid of ALL the Old Testament memorials to Himself except for Sabbath? The Lord didn't care if people would know who He is and what He has done but He definitely wanted people to take saturdays off???

Its not passing the logic or common sense test, is it?? You have to know if you contradict Paul and the Lord Jesus you must be wrong. Do you just not care? Or do you understand what you do and you do it purposely?

 

[Magenta]

You noticed it too?

I cannot believe how SO MANY grace filled Christians backslide and then went on a huge murdering spree lately, who would have thought they could become such criminals.

One minute they are proclaiming how they are eternally saved and free from the burden of self-righteousness and dead works and then BOOM over night they become deranged murders. It is really quite baffling.

I just wonder who issued the license to them to do that!!
God forbid that grace should abound where sin abounds, just makes no sense.

You forgot to mention the part about the axe

Maybe it is only those 'effeminate cowardly "men" who sit in the corner whining and crying' who eventually take up axes?

 

[PennEd]

When Samuel appeared to Saul he said "this time tomorrow you will be with me here in this place"

Faithful Jonathan suffered the same fate as Saul .... neither did David share your assessment of Saul.

God punished Saul and He will punish backsliding and sin sometimes with the utmost severity however all this falls short of damnation.

True.
This passage is a perfect example of those who want to inject their own, or God knows who's, thoughts into what Scripture says in an attempt to justify their faulty doctrine..
Note that ALL involved, INCLUDING SCRIPTURE ITSELF, say the being that came to Saul was Samuel.

NOWHERE, in this passage OR ANYWHERE ELSE in Scripture, does it say it was a demon, or some other entity.

Also note that Samuel gave Saul a TRUE, accurate, and specific prophecy as to what would happen to him the following day. Which is exactly what happened. What demon ever gave a true prophecy?

! Samuel 28 NKJV

7 Then Saul said to his servants, “Find me a woman who is a medium, that I may go to her and inquire of her.”

And his servants said to him, “In fact, there is a woman who is a medium at En Dor.”

8 So Saul disguised himself and put on other clothes, and he went, and two men with him; and they came to the woman by night. And he said, “Please conduct a séance for me, and bring up for me the one I shall name to you.”

9 Then the woman said to him, “Look, you know what Saul has done, how he has cut off the mediums and the spiritists from the land. Why then do you lay a snare for my life, to cause me to die?”

10 And Saul swore to her by the Lord, saying, “As the Lord lives, no punishment shall come upon you for this thing.”

11 Then the woman said, “Whom shall I bring up for you?”

And he said, “Bring up Samuel for me.”

12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out with a loud voice. And the woman spoke to Saul, saying, “Why have you deceived me? For you are Saul!”

13 And the king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What did you see?”

And the woman said to Saul, “I saw a[a] spirit ascending out of the earth.”

14 So he said to her, “What is his form?”

And she said, “An old man is coming up, and he is covered with a mantle.” And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground and bowed down.

15 Now Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?”

And Saul answered, “I am deeply distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God has departed from me and does not answer me anymore, neither by prophets nor by dreams. Therefore I have called you, that you may reveal to me what I should do.”

16 Then Samuel said: “So why do you ask me, seeing the Lord has departed from you and has become your enemy? 17 And the Lord has done for [b]Himself as He spoke by me. For the Lord has torn the kingdom out of your hand and given it to your neighbor, David. 18 Because you did not obey the voice of the Lord nor execute His fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore the Lord has done this thing to you this day. 19 Moreover the Lord will also deliver Israel with you into the hand of the Philistines. And tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The Lord will also deliver the army of Israel into the hand of the Philistines.”

 

[HeIsHere]

Yes, another example of why a saved man can wind up lost.

No one gains spiritual salvation by their deeds, nor does anyone loose their spiritual salvation by their deeds.

There is no debate, this is the foundation of the Gospel.

 

[VCO]

A murderer doesn't have eternal life in him. not saved, never saved, understand?

Where did you get that theology from ? ? ?

I used to be a Volunteer Prison Chaplain, in two super-max Prisons, and your theology, Makes Prison Ministry seem like a joke. I KNOW THE LORD CALLED ME TO BE A VOLUNTEER CHAPLAIN, and when we get to heaven, I want you to look me up, and the one standing by my Right Side used to be a Murderer, SAVED BY GRACE, and LOVES THE LORD NOW and FOREVER.

I want you to try to make that theology square with Scripture:

Mark 3:28-29 (HCSB)
28 I assure you: People will be forgiven for all sins and whatever blasphemies they may blaspheme.
29 But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”—

People can be forgiven for all sins, EXCEPT one who rejects CHRIST as their LORD and Savior, which is the same as rejecting the work of the Holy Spirit on the human heart. Salvation has NOTHING TO DO with Works, but rather, FAITH that JESUS DID IT ALL, BEFORE TIME BEGAN.

Titus 3:5-7 (ESV)
5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

So when did that all HAPPEN ? ? ?

Titus 1:2 (NCV)
2 That faith and that knowledge come from the hope for life forever, which God promised to us
before time began. And God cannot lie.

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

So what is the purpose for GOOD WORKS? Only a way to LOVE HIM BACK, because we know HE Saved Us.

One more Statement:
How many Do you think Paul murdered before the Damascus Road incident? ? ?
We know he was involved in the Murder of Steven, How Many More ? ? ?

1 Timothy 1:15 (ESV)
15 The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost.

I absolutely believe, God is the author of Poetic Justice. So don't be surprised if He may choose to have two murderers stand on either side of you, AS WE WORSHIP BEFORE THE THRONE. Yes, I believe the Rapture may be SOON! You have a good day!