Salvation

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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#41
No.



Yes.



Yes.



No...

Ephesians Chapter 2

1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

He is speaking of those who have already chosen. Giving us a choice is what grace is all about.
He was "dead in sin" Spiritually dead men do not make spiritual choices. Only those that have been quickened to a spiritual life makes spiritual choices.
 

Live4Him3

Jesus is Lord
May 19, 2022
1,383
640
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#42
"I have waited for thy salvation, O LORD." (Genesis 49:18)

The underlying Hebrew word which is here translated as "salvation" is "yeshua" or Jesus' name in Hebrew.

In fact, "yeshua" is found 77 times in the underlying Hebrew of the Old Testament, and you can verify that for yourselves here:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h3444/kjv/wlc/0-1/

Furthermore, the name "Jesus" literally means "Jehovah is salvation":

https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=Jesus

Jesus

personal name of the Christian Savior, late 12c.; it is the Greek form of Joshua, used variously in translations of the Bible. From Late Latin Iesus (properly pronounced as three syllables), from Greek Iesous, which is an attempt to render into Greek the Aramaic (Semitic) proper name Jeshua (Hebrew Yeshua, Yoshua) "Jah is salvation." This was a common Jewish personal name during the Hellenizing period; it is the later form of Hebrew Yehoshua (see Joshua).

Although the salvation which Jesus provides is multi-faceted, when the angel of the Lord appeared unto Joseph in a dream and told him that the child Mary was carrying shall be called "Jesus", he specifically mentioned this name "for" or because Jesus would save his people FROM THEIR SINS:

"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins." (Matthew 1:21)
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
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#43
The un-regenerant person will never repent of breaking a spiritual law of God
I guess we are all going to hell then.

that he cannot understand,
Really?...


Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
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#44
Only those that have been quickened to a spiritual life makes spiritual choices.
Every man has a choice to make. You know your theories make no sense. Why don't you look to the Word?

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,821
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Australia
#45
Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Mar 10:17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
Mar 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
Mar 10:19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
Mar 10:20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
Mar 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#46
Every man has a choice to make. You know your theories make no sense. Why don't you look to the Word?

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Thayer's definition of the word "world". 8) any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort. a) The Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews. (Rom 11:12 etc) a) used of believers only, John 1:29, 3:16, 3:17, 6:33, 12:47, 1 Cor 4:9, 2 Cor 5:19. God so loved the "world of believers"
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#47
Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Mar 10:17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
Mar 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
Mar 10:19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
Mar 10:20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
Mar 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
The "saved" in all of your references, except Eph 2:8, are referring to being delivered (saved) as they sojourn here in this world.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#48
I guess we are all going to hell then.



Really?...


Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
The "they" in this verse has reference to all that be in Rome, called to be saints. The un-regenerated person described in 1 Cor 2:14 cannot discern God's eternal power and Godhead. Romans 1:26-27, shows how far that they had backslid.
 

montana123

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2021
852
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#49
Is it correct to say that the meaning of salvation is "a deliverance"?
Salvation is a deliverance.

A deliverance from spiritual bondage because of sin.

When God brought out the Hebrews from Egypt He used the name Jehovah which represents physical deliverance.

And in the New Testament He uses the name Jesus which represents spiritual deliverance.

God's name represents His character and attributes which the name Jehovah and Jesus reveal His character and attributes as it applies to the benefit of humans.

Jesus is the name that is above all names not only in this world but in the world to come which Jesus is above the name Jehovah but includes attributes of Jehovah.

Contrary to what some people believe the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is Jesus.

God said in Isaiah that He would reveal a new name to the Jews and speak to them which Jesus told Philip that it is the Father that does the works.

Jesus said I am come in the Father's name.

Hebrews 1 says the Son inherited the name Jesus.

John 14 says the Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.

Everything we do in word and in deed is to be done in Jesus' name which in Acts Hebrews, Samaritans, and Gentiles were all baptized in the name of Jesus.

There is no other name under heaven whereby we are saved but by the name Jesus.

Since Jesus is the only saving name then the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit would have the same name for they all participate in our salvation.

Salvation would mean deliverance because we are being delivered from spiritual bondage and sin just like the Hebrews coming out of Egypt was a deliverance but physical.

Which the Bible says that God brought the Hebrews out with a mighty right hand.

Which God's right hand represents power, wisdom, and salvation.

Which this is another thing many people do not understand that Jesus is not sitting on a throne next to the Father but Jesus is the only person we will see in heaven.

Which Jesus told Philip if you have seen me you have seen the Father.

In Revelation 4 it says there is only one throne in heaven and one who sits on the throne which Revelation 22 says it is the throne of God and the Lamb, God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.

God's right hand represents salvation.

Jesus said all power is given to me in heaven and earth.

There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

David said the LORD said unto my Lord sit at my right hand until your enemies are your footstool which means conquered and Acts repeats that.

Jesus at the right hand is only temporary until His enemies are conquered.

Which the Bible says that the Son must reign until His enemies are conquered and then the Son shall submit to the Father so God can be all in all.

Which God exalted the man Christ Jesus to exercise the throne of power be at His right hand because He is the Savior and Mediator so He must rule until these things no longer are necessary for the saints are with Jesus and then the Son shall submit to the Father which He will stop exercising the throne of power so God can be all in all.

But it is God ruling through the man Christ Jesus for Jesus is God.

Some people do not understand that Jesus is the only person we will see in heaven.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
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#50
The un-regenerated person described in 1 Cor 2:14 cannot discern God's eternal power and Godhead.
Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#51
These people are not the un-regenerated, but are some backsliding born again children of God of the church in Rome.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,366
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#52
Israel was saved from God's wrath that sent them into enslavement by Egypt.
Um, no. Israel was not under God's wrath at the time of the Egyptian enslavement. Please read Genesis carefully.
 
C

ChristianTonyB

Guest
#54
Um, no. Israel was not under God's wrath at the time of the Egyptian enslavement. Please read Genesis carefully.
Ok. Thanks. I do realise that Egypt felt threatened by Israel because of its growth in numbers and wealth, and that they also feared Israel might be supportive of Egypt’s enemies should they attack, so Egypt put them under the thumb.

But it’s also interesting what God says through the prophet Ezekiel, and the reason why He left them so long under bondage to Egypt:
”Thus says the Lord God, “On the day when I chose Israel and swore to the descendants of the house of Jacob and made Myself known to them in the land of Egypt, when I swore to them, saying, I am the Lord your God, on that day I swore to them, to bring them out from the land of Egypt into a land that I had selected for them, flowing with milk and honey, which is the glory of all lands. I said to them, ‘Cast away, each of you, the detestable things of his eyes, and do not defile yourselves with the idols of Egypt; I am the Lord your God.’ But they rebelled against Me and were not willing to listen to Me; they did not cast away the detestable things of their eyes, nor did they forsake the idols of Egypt”.

So, in terms of the topic raised by the OP, ie salvation vs deliverance, it seemed to me a reasonable thing to ask, are we being saved or delivered, or are we still in the pit? …. and thus, thinking about Israel’s experiences which are often metaphors for us, it didn’t seem to matter, because if we don’t shuck our idolatrous ways from us, ie repent, then we won’t be saved or delivered, but left to remain in the bondage and consequences of our sinful nature.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,813
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#55
The un-regenerant person will never repent of breaking a spiritual law of God
that he cannot understand, and thinks them to be foolishness (1 Cor 2:14).
If the unregenerated person will not repent...

Only the born again people will repent. Salvation is "a deliverance". When the child of God repents, and God delivers him,
he saves him here in this world. Children of God are delivered (saved) many times as they sojourn here in this world.
Since only born again persons repent...

He was "dead in sin" Spiritually dead men do not make spiritual choices.
Only those that have been quickened to a spiritual life makes spiritual choices.
At what point is one born again?

Because the order you have put these actions in, looks like
you are saying a person is born again before they repent.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#58
Who are "these people" whom you disparage so?
At certain times in our lives as born again believers, you and I are the they, Most of the time we are very nice people, but sometimes we become a vile as "they" when our fleshly nature is tempted by the deceiving lies of satan.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
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#59
Ok. Thanks. I do realise that Egypt felt threatened by Israel because of its growth in numbers and wealth, and that they also feared Israel might be supportive of Egypt’s enemies should they attack, so Egypt put them under the thumb.

But it’s also interesting what God says through the prophet Ezekiel, and the reason why He left them so long under bondage to Egypt:
”Thus says the Lord God, “On the day when I chose Israel and swore to the descendants of the house of Jacob and made Myself known to them in the land of Egypt, when I swore to them, saying, I am the Lord your God, on that day I swore to them, to bring them out from the land of Egypt into a land that I had selected for them, flowing with milk and honey, which is the glory of all lands. I said to them, ‘Cast away, each of you, the detestable things of his eyes, and do not defile yourselves with the idols of Egypt; I am the Lord your God.’ But they rebelled against Me and were not willing to listen to Me; they did not cast away the detestable things of their eyes, nor did they forsake the idols of Egypt”.

So, in terms of the topic raised by the OP, ie salvation vs deliverance, it seemed to me a reasonable thing to ask, are we being saved or delivered, or are we still in the pit? …. and thus, thinking about Israel’s experiences which are often metaphors for us, it didn’t seem to matter, because if we don’t shuck our idolatrous ways from us, ie repent, then we won’t be saved or delivered, but left to remain in the bondage and consequences of our sinful nature.
Once we have been born again, we never lose our eternal inheritance, but when we yield to the temptations of satan's lies, we lose our fellowship with God, temporary, (because God will not fellowship with sin) until we repent and then God delivers (saves) us from the cosequiese of that sin. This is a deliverance we receive as we sojourn here in this world.