Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation
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FreeGrace2 said:
The ONLY requirement for possessing eternal life is to believe in Jesus Christ for salvation. John 5:24 says exactly that.
What you keep failing to understand is that the verses you think are about losing salvation cannot be. Because Jesus said believers possess eternal life and possessors of eternal life shall never perish.
You just keep failing to understand what "endure to the end" means. It isn't about your life, as you presume.
The ONLY requirement for possessing eternal life is to believe in Jesus Christ for salvation. John 5:24 says exactly that.
What you keep failing to understand is that the verses you think are about losing salvation cannot be. Because Jesus said believers possess eternal life and possessors of eternal life shall never perish.
You just keep failing to understand what "endure to the end" means. It isn't about your life, as you presume.
FreeGrace2 said:
All your responses here demonstrate your contradiction. You claim to believe John 10:28 but non of your posts indicate that you do. In fact, all of your posts demonstrate the exact opposite: that you believe that salvation can be lost.
All of this is totally irrelevant. You are choking on a gnat. Open your eyes.
WHEN a person believes in Christ, they POSSESS eternal life because John 5:24 says exactly that.
Jesus is the GIVER of eternal life. John 10:28
The RESULT of possessing eternal life (which occurs WHEN a person believes) is that they shall never perish. John 10:28
May I suggest that you find someone in your area whose native language IS English and have them read both John 5:24 and 10:28 and see if their understanding is what I've been trying to tell you.
All your responses here demonstrate your contradiction. You claim to believe John 10:28 but non of your posts indicate that you do. In fact, all of your posts demonstrate the exact opposite: that you believe that salvation can be lost.
All of this is totally irrelevant. You are choking on a gnat. Open your eyes.
WHEN a person believes in Christ, they POSSESS eternal life because John 5:24 says exactly that.
Jesus is the GIVER of eternal life. John 10:28
The RESULT of possessing eternal life (which occurs WHEN a person believes) is that they shall never perish. John 10:28
May I suggest that you find someone in your area whose native language IS English and have them read both John 5:24 and 10:28 and see if their understanding is what I've been trying to tell you.
Well, that's quite obvious.
Right THERE is your problem. You have completely misunderstood Matt 24. It doesn't condradict anything in the Bible.
Your problem is that you just won't accept the fact that once a believer is saved and therefore possesses eternal life, they CANNOT perish.
It seems you even hate that idea. So your problem stems from your own brain.
There is NO security in that at all. Jesus taught in the parable of the 4 soils how saved people may not bear fruit.
This is a LIE from Satan. He "prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour". 1 Pet 5:7
He is devouring YOU.
The truth from Jesus is CLEAR: believe in Me, possess eternal life, never perish.
You do not believe Jesus. And thanks for admitting that your view of the Bible is that it is contradictory. It isn't. You are contradicted in your own brain.
Right THERE is your problem. You have completely misunderstood Matt 24. It doesn't condradict anything in the Bible.
Your problem is that you just won't accept the fact that once a believer is saved and therefore possesses eternal life, they CANNOT perish.
It seems you even hate that idea. So your problem stems from your own brain.
There is NO security in that at all. Jesus taught in the parable of the 4 soils how saved people may not bear fruit.
This is a LIE from Satan. He "prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour". 1 Pet 5:7
He is devouring YOU.
The truth from Jesus is CLEAR: believe in Me, possess eternal life, never perish.
You do not believe Jesus. And thanks for admitting that your view of the Bible is that it is contradictory. It isn't. You are contradicted in your own brain.
Of course there are verses supporting eternal security - the question is whether that security is conditional or not. The OSAS crowd ignores the verses which prove that security is conditional.
What you refer to as "both sides of its mouth" the Bible refers to as "line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little".
What does exist is "line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little." OSAS completely ignores other verses which qualify what "lose any" means in John 6:39, such as Peter's account of those who "escaped the pollutions of this world" and became "entangled again therein" or the Unmerciful Servant who was fully forgiven but wound up suffering for the debt he can never repay in the end - therefore, "lose any" must mean "any who desire to be kept".
It requires a degree of maturity, courage, honesty to correctly interpret Scripture. The OSAS crowd is childish, cowardly, and incapable of honest hermeneutics - they've been shown the "many" of Matthew 24:12 who wind up lost -- in contrast to the saved man in verse 13 -- are saints, and have been shown why by using that pesky "line upon line, here a little, there a little" principle you hate so much: when we compare Romans 8:7 KJV and 1 John 5:3 KJV, it proves beyond the shadow of doubt these "many" can only be saints, yet the dishonest nature of the OSAS crowd won't allow them to accept this truth.
What you refer to as "both sides of its mouth" the Bible refers to as "line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little".
What does exist is "line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little." OSAS completely ignores other verses which qualify what "lose any" means in John 6:39, such as Peter's account of those who "escaped the pollutions of this world" and became "entangled again therein" or the Unmerciful Servant who was fully forgiven but wound up suffering for the debt he can never repay in the end - therefore, "lose any" must mean "any who desire to be kept".
It requires a degree of maturity, courage, honesty to correctly interpret Scripture. The OSAS crowd is childish, cowardly, and incapable of honest hermeneutics - they've been shown the "many" of Matthew 24:12 who wind up lost -- in contrast to the saved man in verse 13 -- are saints, and have been shown why by using that pesky "line upon line, here a little, there a little" principle you hate so much: when we compare Romans 8:7 KJV and 1 John 5:3 KJV, it proves beyond the shadow of doubt these "many" can only be saints, yet the dishonest nature of the OSAS crowd won't allow them to accept this truth.
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No, you just admitted that you think eternal security contradicts Matt 25.
Let's go a bit further, shall we? He also said in 5:24 that believers possess eternal life. That means the MOMENT one believes they possess eternal life.
Then, in 10:28 Jesus said recipients of eternal life shall never perish.
This is NOT salvation.
Only IF IF IF one claims that "loving work" is required for salvation.
They are NOT related regarding salvation.
Let's go a bit further, shall we? He also said in 5:24 that believers possess eternal life. That means the MOMENT one believes they possess eternal life.
Then, in 10:28 Jesus said recipients of eternal life shall never perish.
This is NOT salvation.
Only IF IF IF one claims that "loving work" is required for salvation.
They are NOT related regarding salvation.
Why don't you just believe what Jesus said in Johh 10:28. There are NO conditions placed on RECIPIENTS of eternal life.
The mere FACT of possessing eternal life means that the recipient SHALL NEVER PERISH.
All of those verses are not even about eternal security. They are about rewards.
Your view is destroyed by John 10:28 but you just won't admit it. When Jesus gives eternal life, that person SHALL NEVER PERISH.
That is how simple eternal security is to understand.
Unless you can find any verse that plainly says that salvation can be lost, you have no point.
And John 10:28 clearly says the exact opposite.
The mere FACT of possessing eternal life means that the recipient SHALL NEVER PERISH.
All of those verses are not even about eternal security. They are about rewards.
Your view is destroyed by John 10:28 but you just won't admit it. When Jesus gives eternal life, that person SHALL NEVER PERISH.
That is how simple eternal security is to understand.
Unless you can find any verse that plainly says that salvation can be lost, you have no point.
And John 10:28 clearly says the exact opposite.
I SAID it is YOUR flawed view of the verse that is incompatible with the Bible.
If Matt 24:13 means what you think it means, then THAT is incompatible with what Jesus said in John 10:28.
I continue to be amazed at WHY you seem unable to understand the glaring incompatibility with YOUR view of Matt 24 and what Jesus said so very clearly in John 10:28.
The ONLY conclusion I can make is that you just reject what Jesus said in John 10:28. His words don't agree with your opinion.
Not even close.
If Matt 24:13 means what you think it means, then THAT is incompatible with what Jesus said in John 10:28.
I continue to be amazed at WHY you seem unable to understand the glaring incompatibility with YOUR view of Matt 24 and what Jesus said so very clearly in John 10:28.
The ONLY conclusion I can make is that you just reject what Jesus said in John 10:28. His words don't agree with your opinion.
Not even close.
Loving work not requirement but read this verse again what Jesus mean by saved people because helping the poor
34Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
No I don't, you do I you die, in that moment yes, if you still life anothe 5 years and deny Jesus till you die than Jesus will deny you in front of His Father and you lost you salvation
34Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
No I don't, you do I you die, in that moment yes, if you still life anothe 5 years and deny Jesus till you die than Jesus will deny you in front of His Father and you lost you salvation
Doesn't Scripture say apart from Christ, we can do nothing? The wicked "love" others and things, but that love is selfish. They love only that from which they can derive benefits, while "agape" love is entirely different. The Christian can't keep God's commandments until they first receive "agape" into their heart, followed by the demonstration of that "agape" which is keeping God's commandments.
Revelation 13
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Revelation 13 talking what happen during gt
It say not worship image will be killed, not physical save
Not worship beast mean endure in Jesus
So Bible not promise physical salvation but spiritual salvation
Yes if you killed becouse refuse to worship beast you have eternal salvation
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Revelation 13 talking what happen during gt
It say not worship image will be killed, not physical save
Not worship beast mean endure in Jesus
So Bible not promise physical salvation but spiritual salvation
Yes if you killed becouse refuse to worship beast you have eternal salvation
Why don't you believe the rest of the Bible instead of latching on to one verse and stopping your ears and shutting your eyes?
Bulldookey. How can a person be simultaneously "fallen away" from Christ and continue to "abide in" Christ? You are teaching that a Christian who "falls away" from Christ and becomes an impenitent serial killer will go to heaven, but with fewer jewels in his crown. If that isn't the most convoluted, asinine, blasphemous, naive interpretation of "grace", there is no other such. Why can't you in the OSAS crowd see when someone points out how blind Satan has made you?
No, it is YOUR view of salvation being unconditional that is destroyed when we correctly identify the "many" who will be lost in Matthew 24:12 as saints by comparing 1 John 5:3 KJV and Romans 8:7 KJV.
The promises in John 10:28 KJV and John 6:39 KJV are on condition that the Christian continues to abide in the Vine, and doesn't detach himself, go down to the street to Satan's Holly tree, climb up and abide there because he thinks the sap is sweeter.
Be honest, that's why the OSAS crowd so desperately desires that OSAS License to Sin, right? Because they can't see how anyone could love Jesus enough to keep His commandments, right? They don't want to accept the sinner must CHOOSE to love God and forsake Satan as the betrothed must CHOOSE to love one another and forsake all others, right?
You know who finds such a commitment reprehensible? That batchelor sitting in audience, eyeing the bridesmaids.
Bulldookey. How can a person be simultaneously "fallen away" from Christ and continue to "abide in" Christ? You are teaching that a Christian who "falls away" from Christ and becomes an impenitent serial killer will go to heaven, but with fewer jewels in his crown. If that isn't the most convoluted, asinine, blasphemous, naive interpretation of "grace", there is no other such. Why can't you in the OSAS crowd see when someone points out how blind Satan has made you?
No, it is YOUR view of salvation being unconditional that is destroyed when we correctly identify the "many" who will be lost in Matthew 24:12 as saints by comparing 1 John 5:3 KJV and Romans 8:7 KJV.
The promises in John 10:28 KJV and John 6:39 KJV are on condition that the Christian continues to abide in the Vine, and doesn't detach himself, go down to the street to Satan's Holly tree, climb up and abide there because he thinks the sap is sweeter.
Be honest, that's why the OSAS crowd so desperately desires that OSAS License to Sin, right? Because they can't see how anyone could love Jesus enough to keep His commandments, right? They don't want to accept the sinner must CHOOSE to love God and forsake Satan as the betrothed must CHOOSE to love one another and forsake all others, right?
You know who finds such a commitment reprehensible? That batchelor sitting in audience, eyeing the bridesmaids.
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Sorry, I hit the F key to many times. One of many things that happen when you are 87 years old.
"God is not willing that any should perish" I assume you got that statement from 2 Peter 3:9. To keep ourselves in context of 2 Peter, we have to go back to 2 Peter 1 to find out who Peter is giving this warning to in verse 3:9. In 2 Peter 1:1 it tells us that Peter is speaking to Them who have "obtained like precious faith" . Spiritual faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit (Gal 5:22) which indwells our bodies when God quickens us to the new spiritual life, so the people that Peter is addressing in 2 Peter 3:9 are those that have already been born again. Peter is warning them that when they have commited a sin they should repent of it to avoid being perished (losing their fellowship with God) Peter also includes himself in his warning by using the word "usward".
James 1:14-15, Every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin, and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death (a separation, or loss). God will not fellowship with sin, therefore, we are separated from God's fellowship, until we repent. God is not willing that any of his born again children should perish.
"God is not willing that any should perish" I assume you got that statement from 2 Peter 3:9. To keep ourselves in context of 2 Peter, we have to go back to 2 Peter 1 to find out who Peter is giving this warning to in verse 3:9. In 2 Peter 1:1 it tells us that Peter is speaking to Them who have "obtained like precious faith" . Spiritual faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit (Gal 5:22) which indwells our bodies when God quickens us to the new spiritual life, so the people that Peter is addressing in 2 Peter 3:9 are those that have already been born again. Peter is warning them that when they have commited a sin they should repent of it to avoid being perished (losing their fellowship with God) Peter also includes himself in his warning by using the word "usward".
James 1:14-15, Every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin, and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death (a separation, or loss). God will not fellowship with sin, therefore, we are separated from God's fellowship, until we repent. God is not willing that any of his born again children should perish.
FreeGrace2 said:
No, you just admitted that you think eternal security contradicts Matt 25.
you still misunderstand. "loving work" isn't a requirement for eternal life. You need to read and BELIEVE John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:40.
34Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
FreeGrace2 said:
Let's go a bit further, shall we? He also said in 5:24 that believers possess eternal life. That means the MOMENT one believes they possess eternal life.
You STILL reject what Jesus said about recipients of eternal life. He NEVER gave any kind of stipulations to recipients of eternal life.
He was clear and simple: I give you eternal life and you shall never perish. Why do you keep fighting this?
That is true and in the Bible. What you don't understand, or want to accept is that the denial there is a denial of reward.
No, you just admitted that you think eternal security contradicts Matt 25.
you still misunderstand. "loving work" isn't a requirement for eternal life. You need to read and BELIEVE John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:40.
34Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
FreeGrace2 said:
Let's go a bit further, shall we? He also said in 5:24 that believers possess eternal life. That means the MOMENT one believes they possess eternal life.
You STILL reject what Jesus said about recipients of eternal life. He NEVER gave any kind of stipulations to recipients of eternal life.
He was clear and simple: I give you eternal life and you shall never perish. Why do you keep fighting this?
That is true and in the Bible. What you don't understand, or want to accept is that the denial there is a denial of reward.
Can't be. Jesus was so clear about eternal security on the basis of being given eternal life in John 10:28. It is YOUR view about Matt 24 that is totally WRONG>
Endure to the end of the 7 year tribulation and you will be physically delivered. It CAN'T mean eternal salvation or Jesus would have contradicted Himself.
Then just admit that you think Jesus contradicted Himself, because you haven't even tried to explain John 10:28 in a way that isn't eternal security on the basis of being given eternal life.
The Bible clearly tells us that on the basis of belief in Jesus, the believer POSSESSES eternal life. You are in the WRONG.
If Jesus did mean that, He contradicted Himself.
I refuse to believe that heresy. But you are free to accept that heresy.
I believe the truth. Once given eternal life, the recipient shall never perish. Straight from Jesus' mouth.
Endure to the end of the 7 year tribulation and you will be physically delivered. It CAN'T mean eternal salvation or Jesus would have contradicted Himself.
Then just admit that you think Jesus contradicted Himself, because you haven't even tried to explain John 10:28 in a way that isn't eternal security on the basis of being given eternal life.
The Bible clearly tells us that on the basis of belief in Jesus, the believer POSSESSES eternal life. You are in the WRONG.
If Jesus did mean that, He contradicted Himself.
I refuse to believe that heresy. But you are free to accept that heresy.
I believe the truth. Once given eternal life, the recipient shall never perish. Straight from Jesus' mouth.