Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation

[Everlasting-Grace]

Unfortunately Paul didn't get that memo....notice the underscored...Paul doesn't mention his gospel.
We ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters, and rightly so, because your faith is growing more and more, and the love all of you have for one another is increasing. Therefore, among God’s churches we boast about your perseverance and faith in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring. All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering. God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might
(2 Thessalonians 1:3-9)

so your saying paul. the apostle who was sent to spread the gospel to the gentiles. was not given the true gospel?

Say it is not so..

 

[Jackson123]

But...would God have saved him if he hadn't built the Ark?

If haven't build the ark?
Mean he haven't faith
God saved base on faith
No faith no save

 

[Jackson123]

But...would God have saved him if he hadn't built the Ark?

Seem to me there is correlation between faith and work
When you have faith in Christ, than Christ will in you than you will do His will.
Impossible for a man with Christ in him and work as professional killer, kill for money

 

[mustaphadrink]

IMHO, the culture has always influenced Christendom...secularism (the here and now), materialism evolution, the media, etc., which when imbibed lends itself to the decline of interest in the sacred/eternal things. IMHO

Yes I would agree and I am at a loss as to why this is happening. We should be a light on a hill, not a candle in a dungeon.

 

[posthuman]

But he replied, ‘Truly I tell you, I don’t know you.’

why would you think these are believing Christians if Christ never knew them?

 

[Magenta]

John very clearly said that those who claim to be "without sin are self deceived". v.8

1 John 1:8-10~ If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the Truth is not in us. If we confess our sins,
He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make Him out
to be a liar, and His Word is not in us.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Goliath said:
But he replied, ‘Truly I tell you, I don’t know you.’

why would you think these are believing Christians if Christ never knew them?

Correct!

But Goliath misquoted the statement of Jesus. He said "I NEVER knew you". That would prove beyond any doubt that the crowd in Matt 7:21-23 had NEVER believed.

 

[Jackson123]

Goliath said:
But he replied, ‘Truly I tell you, I don’t know you.’

Correct!

But Goliath misquoted the statement of Jesus. He said "I NEVER knew you". That would prove beyond any doubt that the crowd in Matt 7:21-23 had NEVER believed.

They think they believe it may because they believe that Jesus is God but like Satan only believe Jesus is God but not believe His teaching.
Who believe Jesus teaching will practice love because Jesus teach to love God as much as you can and love your neighbor as you love yourself
Some people believe Jesus as God but not believe of His teaching of love than rob the bank to demonstrate the unbelieveness of the love teaching of Jesus

 

[Magenta]

100% agree.

but, we are not saved by those works, they are a result of salvation.

And it is God Who works in us, to fulfill His good purpose

Not only that, but:

Philippians 1:6

 

[Jackson123]

Salvation by faith it doesn't mean ok to rob the bank and save as long as have a faith

Real faith cause the man repent, stop rob the bank and practice Jesus teaching as describe in Matt 25

 

[FreeGrace2]

Salvation by faith it doesn't mean ok to rob the bank and save as long as have a faith

Real faith cause the man repent, stop rob the bank and practice Jesus teaching as describe in Matt 25

Eternal security means that once saved, always saved. And those who become disobedient/unfaithful will be punished. Which ain't purty. Heb 12:11 says God's discipline is PAINFUL.

Paul gave an example of how God may discipline, in 1 Cor 11:30: "many of you are weak, and sick, and a number of you sleep (physical death).

Notice the sequence!

 

[FreeGrace2]

Eternal security means that once saved, always saved. And those who become disobedient/unfaithful will be punished. Which ain't purty. Heb 12:11 says God's discipline is PAINFUL.

Paul gave an example of how God may discipline, in 1 Cor 11:30: "many of you are weak, and sick, and a number of you sleep (physical death).

Notice the sequence!

Just as the Bible teaches parents to discipline their children, God will do no less to His own children!

 

[Jackson123]

Eternal security means that once saved, always saved. And those who become disobedient/unfaithful will be punished. Which ain't purty. Heb 12:11 says God's discipline is PAINFUL.

Paul gave an example of how God may discipline, in 1 Cor 11:30: "many of you are weak, and sick, and a number of you sleep (physical death).

Notice the sequence!

John 15
5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you

bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

Jesus say in verse 6 if you not bear good fruit, such branch are pickup thrown into the fire and burn, mean go to hell mean lost your salvation
That what Jesus say

 

[crossnote]

Yes I would agree and I am at a loss as to why this is happening. We should be a light on a hill, not a candle in a dungeon.

Perhaps as foretold in God's Word...

2 Thessalonians 2:7-8 (NASB) For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;

 

[FreeGrace2]

John 15
5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you

bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

Jesus say in verse 6 if you not bear good fruit, such branch are pickup thrown into the fire and burn, mean go to hell mean lost your salvation
That what Jesus say

No, Jesus didn't say that. That is just your opinion about what He said.

If Jesus really did mean that, then did Jesus really mean this:

John 5:24 -
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.


John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

So, if He mean a believer without fruit gets thrown into hell, then what did He mean in these 2 verses, which, btw, are very clear.

 

[Inquisitor]

I stopped reading here because the rest of your post is based upon this error. I say with the utmost emphasis that the verses "For not the hearers of the law but the doers of the law shall be justified in His sight" and "...he that doeth righteousness is righteous" in no way teach the law saves us. We are saved by grace through faith alone.

Now that you and I are clear, I would like you to explain what Paul and John mean in these verses without undoing the plainly stated word of them whatsoever. Are you able to, friend?

Are you saying that you do not have to obey the commandments?

The verse clearly states "the doers of the law shall be justified in His sight"

Are you saying that the commandments cannot save?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Are you saying that you do not have to obey the commandments?

Please clarify your question. iow, "obey, for WHAT"? For salvation, or for blessings and reward.

The verse clearly states "the doers of the law shall be justified in His sight"

Context is king. Rom 2:13 was written in the context of 2:6-8.
6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”[a]
7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.

What Paul was saing here is that a perfect person WILL EARN eternal life. The words "persistence in doing good" means to obey perfectly. Or, not breaking ANY of the commandments.

Now consider what ELSE Paul wrote following ch 2.
3-
9 What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin.
10 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one;
20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Are you saying that the commandments cannot save?

Exactly!! The verses above PROVE it.

Paul taught that NO ONE could "keep the law". That means "continuously" from 2:7.

Those who think that the commands can save cannot be saved, unless they previously DID believe in the work of Christ alone for salvation. They are saved, but very confused. They don't understand anything about grace or salvation.

 

[Inquisitor]

The "law" does not always refer to the law of Moses nor can it be referring to the law of Moses in the NT because that was nailed to the Cross, while your Bible says the Ten Commandments "stand forever and ever".

There are several distinctions between the Law God wrote and the one Moses wrote, such as in Daniel 9:11, 2 Kings 21:8 KJV, and even in the NT where the Ten Commandments are called "holy, just, and good" in Romans 7 while the Mosaic law referring to the OT priesthood is called a "carnal commandment" in Hebrews 7...can the same law be both "holy" and "carnal"? (There are several other examples of this distinction, lest you think these alone comprise all of them).

BTW, Paul says "we establish the law", so are you making Paul say we establish the law of Moses since you claim "law" always refers to the Law of Moses?

When Paul wrote the letter to the Romans, the New Testament did not exist. The only scripture in town was the Old Testament. The only definition of the phrase, 'the law', was the English translation of the Hebrew, 'Torah'.

When Paul was writing, 'the law' specifically refers to the Torah, the first five books of the Old Testament.

You cannot apply an interpretation to the Old Testament definition of the phrase, because the law = Torah.

 

[Inquisitor]

Please clarify your question. iow, "obey, for WHAT"? For salvation, or for blessings and reward.


Context is king. Rom 2:13 was written in the context of 2:6-8.
6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”[a]
7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.

What Paul was saing here is that a perfect person WILL EARN eternal life. The words "persistence in doing good" means to obey perfectly. Or, not breaking ANY of the commandments.

Now consider what ELSE Paul wrote following ch 2.
3-
9 What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin.
10 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one;
20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,


Exactly!! The verses above PROVE it.

Paul taught that NO ONE could "keep the law". That means "continuously" from 2:7.

Those who think that the commands can save cannot be saved, unless they previously DID believe in the work of Christ alone for salvation. They are saved, but very confused. They don't understand anything about grace or salvation.

Depends which commandment set that Paul is ultimately referring to?

There is the law (Torah) which contains many commandments.

There is also the wider definition of the law, Torah plus the Prophets, which contains even more commandments.

There are the new commandments which Jesus gave, commonly called the law of Christ.

So which law set is Paul referring to in the letter to the Romans?

 

[Jackson123]

No, Jesus didn't say that. That is just your opinion about what He said.

If Jesus really did mean that, then did Jesus really mean this:

John 5:24 -
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.


John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

So, if He mean a believer without fruit gets thrown into hell, then what did He mean in these 2 verses, which, btw, are very clear.

That Jesus say
John 15
6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

You only read 1 verse without context
Read verse 27
27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

Jesus sheep listen or obey Him in other word His sheep do His will, its mean repent from sin, before bank Robert now work in mcdonald