Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation

[Magenta]

Jesus is my Sabbath rest

For whoever enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from His.

 

[posthuman]

explain Paul's "not the hearers of the law, but the DOERS of the law shall be justified in His sight"

see post #794

 

[posthuman]

God set the day aside in the very beginning of the 4th commandment when He commanded you to work six days and then rest the seventh. A blind man can see that the demands of the first six workdays do not allow for the gathering of the saints for collective morning worship which the seventh day abundantly affords.

Nevertheless what does the Scripture say?
“Cast out the bondwoman and her son,
for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman!"
(Galatians 4:30)

they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple,
and breaking bread from house to house,
did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart
(Acts 2:46)​

 

[Goliath]

God set the day aside in the very beginning of the 4th commandment when He commanded you to work six days and then rest the seventh. A blind man can see that the demands of the first six workdays do not allow for the gathering of the saints for collective morning worship which the seventh day abundantly affords.

Well there's no need to go on...we both took our best shots...there is no convincing you, so I will just call it a draw.
But anyway....thanks for the discussion.
Enjoy your day off.

 

[Goliath]

We love BECAUSE he first loved us

Unless your born again, You have no capacity to love God.

Once again, This is prescriptive, It says those who are saved, adopted children of God obey. Those who are not. Do not obey (see also 1 John)

finally. Once again, We have the requirement, While those who love God obey. They are still GUILTY according to the requirement. Because they still sin and fall short.

Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.
John 3:20-21

 

[Magenta]

​

Nevertheless what does the Scripture say?​

“Cast out the bondwoman and her son,​

for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman!"​

(Galatians 4:30) ​

​

they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple,​

and breaking bread from house to house, ​

did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart​

(Acts 2:46)​

Some here would have no doubt picked up stones against
Jesus and/or plotted to kill Him for working on the Sabbath

 

[posthuman]

Some here would have no doubt picked up stones against
Jesus and/or plotted to kill Him for working on the Sabbath

yes; some of them literally accuse Jesus of teaching doctrines of demons.

 

[Magenta]

yes; some of them literally accuse Jesus of teaching doctrines of demons.

Sounds like blasphemy

 

[Inquisitor]

Let's get something straight, friend: I don't cherry pick. It is you hyper grace antinomianists which do that, as evidenced by the collective refusal by you all to explain and harmonize the words of Paul and John on this issue, which I'm able to share but I prefer the Socratic Method used by Jesus to reach those who are deceived - the method which demands you use the brain God gave you to reason out of error into truth.

I'll give it another shot: What does Paul mean by "not the hearers of the law but the doers of the law shall be justified in His sight" and what does John mean by "make not mistake, he that does righteousness IS righteous"?

The reason that I accused you of cherry-picking from the letter to the Romans is very simple.

Here is what you claimed.

Romans 2:13
For it is not the hearers of the Law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the Law who will be justified.

Your interpretation is claiming that a person is saved by obeying the law.

That is a heretical teaching.

Here is the gospel of Jesus Christ again.

Romans 10:10
For with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

The gospel in it's simplest form.

Romans 10:13
For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Unfortunately, you do not understand the letter to the Romans and you refuse to accept your salvation as a free gift.

Romans 3:24
Being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus.

Romans 5:15
But the gracious gift is not like the offense. For if by the offense of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many.

Romans 5:16
The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one offense, resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the gracious gift arose from many offenses, resulting in justification.

Romans 5:17
For if by the offense of the one, death reigned through the one, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gracious gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

How many times does Paul need to repeat himself in Romans.

Do you have ears to hear?

 

[Inquisitor]

Throughout the ages scholars have viewed the Noahide Laws as a link between Judaism
and Christianity, as universal norms of ethical conduct, as a basic concept in international
law, or as a guarantee of fundamental human rights for all. source Also, the United States
Congress recognized the Noahide Laws in 1991 when it passed the Education Day Bill:

“Whereas Congress recognizes the historical tradition of ethical values and principles
which are the basis of civilized society and upon which our great Nation was founded;
Whereas these ethical values and principles have been the bedrock of society from
the dawn of civilization, when they were known as the Seven Noahide Laws” CARM

The problem with that viewpoint is that the only place on earth. Where the seven commandments given to Noah were recorded, was in the ancient Hebrew text.

If you did not read Hebrew and did not live within the vicinity of the Jews. You would never have heard of the seven laws of Noah.

The commandment to not eat the flesh torn from a living creature, is not listed in our national or state law. I doubt whether that law is mentioned in any legal system in the entire world. Nor would that command be found in any historical legal systems.

I strongly doubt that the seven laws of Noah were the basis of our legal systems.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.
John 3:20-21

Not sure how this proves your point of sinlessness

 

[Inquisitor]

Let's get something straight, friend: I don't cherry pick. It is you hyper grace antinomianists which do that, as evidenced by the collective refusal by you all to explain and harmonize the words of Paul and John on this issue, which I'm able to share but I prefer the Socratic Method used by Jesus to reach those who are deceived - the method which demands you use the brain God gave you to reason out of error into truth.

I'll give it another shot: What does Paul mean by "not the hearers of the law but the doers of the law shall be justified in His sight" and what does John mean by "make not mistake, he that does righteousness IS righteous"?

If you read the following verse you will notice the word "law'.

"Not the hearers of the law, BUT THE DOERS, shall be justified in His sight". (Romans 2:13)

Paul is not talking about the ten commandments here.

The word. 'law', is often mentioned in the New Testament and is always referring to the entire law of Moses.

 

[Goliath]

Not sure how this proves your point of sinlessness

I didn't mean to post it without commentary...but something came up and I didn't get back to give commentary.

Well let me try again...with the verse which does prove Sinlessness.
Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for His seed remains in him, and he cannot sin, because he is born of God". (1 John 3:9)
Many people miss the fact, this verse is twofold. Not only does the verse say," Those born of God can not sin", but it also gives the reason, " Those born of God can not sin".
That reason is, "His seed remains" in those who are born of God.
Why would John bother to give us this effect, of Gods seed remaining in us, if it has no effect on sin?

And when you add (1 John 3:10), it now becomes threefold, because it tells us of this sign, a sign given to the believer, so they will know when they have been born of God.
"This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are".(1 John 3:10)
Now, what distinguishable sign do you have, that you have been born again, since you do not believe in the sign... John gives?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Phoneman-777 said: What does Paul mean by "not the hearers of the law but the doers of the law shall be justified in His sight" and what does John mean by "make not mistake, he that does righteousness IS righteous"?

If you read the following verse you will notice the word "law'.

"Not the hearers of the law, BUT THE DOERS, shall be justified in His sight". (Romans 2:13)
Paul is not talking about the ten commandments here.
The word. 'law', is often mentioned in the New Testament and is always referring to the entire law of Moses.

Guys, Paul was teaching that those who obey the entire law of Moses would be justified. However, Paul also wrote this, in the same epistle:

Rom 3:9,10
9 What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin.
10 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one;
20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

So, Paul was teaching that no one can earn salvation. All are sinners.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I didn't mean to post it without commentary...but something came up and I didn't get back to give commentary.

Well let me try again...with the verse which does prove Sinlessness.
Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for His seed remains in him, and he cannot sin, because he is born of God". (1 John 3:9)
Many people miss the fact, this verse is twofold. Not only does the verse say," Those born of God can not sin", but it also gives the reason, " Those born of God can not sin".
That reason is, "His seed remains" in those who are born of God.
Why would John bother to give us this effect, of Gods seed remaining in us, if it has no effect on sin?

John was referring to the believer's born again human spirit, which is what cannot sin. Believers still have their human nature, the nature they were born with. And sin with. Regularly.

Believers have 2 natures, which are in conflict. Gal 5.
13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh (human nature) ; rather, serve one another humbly in love. This verse proves that believers still have their sinful human nature.

16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.

These 2 verses show the conflict between the 2 natures. v.16 is a command to be filled with the Spirit (Eph 5:18). Only then is the believer NOT sinning. v.17 shows the problem and WHY believers still sin.

Further, Paul also commands believers to stop grieving (Eph 4:30) and stop quenching (1 Thess 5:19) the Spirit. That's what believers are doing.

At any given time, the believer is either filled with the Spirit, or grieving/quenching the Spirit.

And when you add (1 John 3:10), it now becomes threefold, because it tells us of this sign, a sign given to the believer, so they will know when they have been born of God.
"This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are".(1 John 3:10)
Now, what distinguishable sign do you have, that you have been born again, since you do not believe in the sign... John gives?

This verse isn't the one that gives us knowledge of having been born of God.

1 John 5:11,12 are the verses.
11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.
13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Those who have believed in Jesus as Savior HAVE eternal life, which means they have been born of God.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I didn't mean to post it without commentary...but something came up and I didn't get back to give commentary.

Well let me try again...with the verse which does prove Sinlessness.
Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for His seed remains in him, and he cannot sin, because he is born of God". (1 John 3:9)
Many people miss the fact, this verse is twofold. Not only does the verse say," Those born of God can not sin", but it also gives the reason, " Those born of God can not sin".
That reason is, "His seed remains" in those who are born of God.
Why would John bother to give us this effect, of Gods seed remaining in us, if it has no effect on sin?

And when you add (1 John 3:10), it now becomes threefold, because it tells us of this sign, a sign given to the believer, so they will know when they have been born of God.
"This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are".(1 John 3:10)
Now, what distinguishable sign do you have, that you have been born again, since you do not believe in the sign... John gives?

Neither of those passages literally says we will never sin again. Both are written in the terms of habitual ongoing sin. They literally state one born of God can not live in sin, While the one who is not born of God that is all he does..

John did not contradict himself. He said in 1 john 1 : 8 if we ( he included himself) say we have no sin we deceive our self and there is no truth in us. He also stated WHEN we sin, we have an advocate. James told us to confess our sins to one another.

 

[Goliath]

John was referring to the believer's born again human spirit, which is what cannot sin.

This would mean everyone is saved, for its our flesh, not our spirit which sins.
Do you believe everyone is saved?

 

[Goliath]

Neither of those passages literally says we will never sin again. Both are written in the terms of habitual ongoing sin. They literally state one born of God can not live in sin, While the one who is not born of God that is all he does..

John did not contradict himself. He said in 1 john 1 : 8 if we ( he included himself) say we have no sin we deceive our self and there is no truth in us. He also stated WHEN we sin, we have an advocate. James told us to confess our sins to one another.

Tell me, How do you know you are saved?

 

[mustaphadrink]

Here are some of the shocking (to me) findings in the poll (2020) cited below...

"A majority of Americans, a new survey finds, no longer believe that Jesus Christ is the way to eternal salvation. Faith (generally) and good works, they say, will do the trick "

"Equally as startling, it was found that a majority of people who describe themselves as Christian (52%) believe that a person can gain eternal salvation by “being or doing good.” That includes close to half of all adults associated with Pentecostal (46%), mainline Protestant (44%), and evangelical (41%) churches. As expected, a much larger share of Catholics (70%) embrace that point of view."

This salvation-can-be-earned perspective, Barna says, fits well with other widely held views identified in the American Worldview Inventory 2020 that are at odds with biblical teaching.
Those have included:


• There is no absolute moral truth (58%)
• Basis of truth are factors or sources other than God (58%)
• Right/wrong determined by factors other than the Bible (77%)
• The Bible is not the authoritative and true word of God (59%)
• People are basically good (69%)

"“If you look at some of the dominant elements in the American mind and heart today, as illuminated by the Inventory, most people believe that the purpose of life is feeling good about yourself,” Barna says. “Most people contend that all faiths are of equal value, that entry into God’s eternal presence is determined by one’s personal means of choice and that there are no absolutes to guide or grow us morally.”

more at: https://outreachmagazine.com/resour...s-believe-works-are-the-key-to-salvation.html

No wonder this country is in the mess it's in.

I don't want to sound overly critical because I have visited the USA and found Americans to be wonderful people in general. My concern is what on earth is the church (in general) teaching for those views to be prevalent. Or should I ask what is it NOT teaching? It doesn't seem to be a problem for America exclusively. My own country (Australia) is just as bad.

 

[crossnote]

I don't want to sound overly critical because I have visited the USA and found Americans to be wonderful people in general. My concern is what on earth is the church (in general) teaching for those views to be prevalent. Or should I ask what is it NOT teaching? It doesn't seem to be a problem for America exclusively. My own country (Australia) is just as bad.

IMHO, the culture has always influenced Christendom...secularism (the here and now), materialism evolution, the media, etc., which when imbibed lends itself to the decline of interest in the sacred/eternal things. IMHO