When We All Get to Heaven

[kaylagrl]

I wonder sometimes when an unbeliever points out that even believers can't agree on what the Bible is saying how much we are affecting the world? Here at CC we have constant disagreement. We all think the Bible is plain, straight forward, yet some of our beliefs are so far apart. And each one of us would say we follow the Word and are guided by the Holy Spirit and that is why we believe the way we believe.

How do we reach a world when we won't even let each other in to heaven? I've been wondering about that lately, and it's been bothering me. A well known actress that is a Christian said to two comedian friends of hers that God loves them. They said they were astounded, because no one had ever told them God loves them. And that got me to thinking, why didn't they know? I've always been very black and white in what I believe. But I wonder, are we trying to do the Holy Spirits work? A popular singing group has a song called "I Catch Em', He Cleans Em'. We're to be fishers of men. But are we trying to do work that isn't ours to do? An old singer said once, "the older I'm getting, the more people I'm letting into heaven". Does anyone else feel the same way? Or is it just me? Why aren't we more in one accord. And don't tell me "because the way you believe is wrong". Every single person here believes they are right according to the Word. If that is true, we should be able to sing "There's a Sweet, Sweet Spirit in This Place" and there isn't. Why?!

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Neat Thread, Kaylagirl.

I like how Our Lord Jesus prayed, in His High Priestly Prayer in John 17, that we all may be One in Him, that the World may believe in Him.

In America, Conservative Catholic and Evangelical Christians more than suffice to constitute a "Moral Majority" and win Pro-Life Victories,

Worldwide, some 340 MN Christians - 1 in 8 Christians - of all denominations suffer persecution for Our Lord Jesus Christ, from Communists, Islamists, other violent Fundamentalists etc. "More than 340 million Christians – one in eight – face high levels of persecution and discrimination because of their faith, according to the 2021 World Watch List compiled by the Christian advocacy group Open Doors." https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-as-people-refused-aid-in-covid-crisis-report

If Christians were more united, we could reduce Persecution of Christians, help speed up Global Evangelism etc imo. God Bless.

John 17:

"20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me."

 

[kaylagrl]

Neat Thread, Kaylagirl.

I like how Our Lord Jesus prayed, in His High Priestly Prayer in John 17, that we all may be One in Him, that the World may believe in Him.

In America, Conservative Catholic and Evangelical Christians more than suffice to constitute a "Moral Majority" and win Pro-Life Victories,

Worldwide, some 340 MN Christians - 1 in 8 Christians - of all denominations suffer persecution for Our Lord Jesus Christ, from Communists, Islamists, other violent Fundamentalists etc. "More than 340 million Christians – one in eight – face high levels of persecution and discrimination because of their faith, according to the 2021 World Watch List compiled by the Christian advocacy group Open Doors." https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-as-people-refused-aid-in-covid-crisis-report

If Christians were more united, we could reduce Persecution of Christians, help speed up Global Evangelism etc imo. God Bless.

John 17:

"20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me."

Thank you for that post. It's totally the spirit I was talking about. We have such a short time and so many to reach. But I'm afraid that we do more against the Gospel then spreading the Gospel. Our job is to show people who Jesus is. We are to shine a light in dark corners of the world. We are to show people there is hope in Jesus. I just wonder are we really doing what we are supposed to be doing. Blessings!!

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I wonder sometimes when an unbeliever points out that even believers can't agree on what the Bible is saying how much we are affecting the world? Here at CC we have constant disagreement. We all think the Bible is plain, straight forward, yet some of our beliefs are so far apart. And each one of us would say we follow the Word and are guided by the Holy Spirit and that is why we believe the way we believe.

How do we reach a world when we won't even let each other in to heaven? I've been wondering about that lately, and it's been bothering me. A well known actress that is a Christian said to two comedian friends of hers that God loves them. They said they were astounded, because no one had ever told them God loves them. And that got me to thinking, why didn't they know? I've always been very black and white in what I believe. But I wonder, are we trying to do the Holy Spirits work? A popular singing group has a song called "I Catch Em', He Cleans Em'. We're to be fishers of men. But are we trying to do work that isn't ours to do? An old singer said once, "the older I'm getting, the more people I'm letting into heaven". Does anyone else feel the same way? Or is it just me? Why aren't we more in one accord. And don't tell me "because the way you believe is wrong". Every single person here believes they are right according to the Word. If that is true, we should be able to sing "There's a Sweet, Sweet Spirit in This Place" and there isn't. Why?!

I think honestly if we could all humble ourselves before scripture and let it say what it says we would all come to a better and closer understanding in time as the scripture formed our thinking about scripture and about Jesus

sometimes we’re saying “ the word is plain and I only believe the word “ but then we see what the word says and it’s different from what we thought

at this point we either let it correct our understanding , or we reason it away , explain it away with some other u related scripture elsewhere.

we all think we know what the Bible says , but the. We come to a forum like this d see it saying a lot of things we didn’t know it said

there’s a point where we either head down the path Gods word really does place before us and let the word be our guide and shape our belief and faith

or we think we know better so when we come to points where the scripture disagrees with our prior thoughts , we reject it , explai. It into oblivion and continue on in our own belief of who God is and what he’s said

we need to submit to the word and let that be right even when we had not understood it before that is able to change our thinking and our direction in life

Often instead we make one scripture negate another because we all have varying beliefs we’ve heard of until this point we’ve been taught various ideas of what’s in the Bible but what’s really there can save us

and bring us together if we accept and believe together what the gospel really teaches us

 

[Edify]

Many today claim to be "led by the Spirit", but really are picking their favorite parts they want to do & skipping the rest.
Thus the great differences.

 

[Magenta]

Many today claim to be "led by the Spirit", but really are picking their favorite
parts they want to do & skipping the rest. Thus the great differences.

Or they have found a way to reconcile what seem to be contradictory verses in a way
you/others do not. There are any number of reasons, really. But I am reminded too, of
certain people who claim this is no place for negativity, while they themselves make
negative comments and remarks, repeatedly, or who complain of those who cannot
accept correction, while they show themselves to be lacking in that very same regard.
And those sinless perfectionists! Oh my, how disturbing are they, going about like
Pharisees claiming they merit God's favor because they obey His commandments,
all the while lying, bearing false witness, and refusing to repent, thereby knowingly
compounding their error. The blindness of people to their own folly yet astounds me.

 

[SomeDisciple]

I wonder sometimes when an unbeliever points out that even believers can't agree on what the Bible is saying how much we are affecting the world?

The unbeliever has lack of perception, though. To the unbeliever anybody that says "i'm a christian" is going to be reckoned a christian to them, even if they have the dumbest doctrine in the world. They have to learn not to lump Christians and "christians" together.

Here at CC we have constant disagreement.

I would point out, to encourage, that your profile given and received far more green check marks than red X's... by about a factor of 10. Mine's about the same on a much smaller scale. So while we have constant disagreement, there is even more constant agreement!

And each one of us would say we follow the Word and are guided by the Holy Spirit and that is why we believe the way we believe.

Even a heretic will say that, though.

How do we reach a world when we won't even let each other in to heaven?

That's just the nature of things. Not everyone that claims to be a Christian makes it to heaven; so naturally, we point out things that are incompatible with the faith when they appear.

Why aren't we more in one accord. And don't tell me "because the way you believe is wrong".

Because the way some people believe... is wrong. I'd be lying if I said something else!

Every single person here believes they are right according to the Word.

Pride, I'm sure, creeps around bible discussion. Nobody starts off knowing everything or being totally correct, just with a little truth and a lot of ideas that place-hold for the truth until they are either verified or excluded; because at some point everyone has to humble themselves and say "I don't know" or "I was wrong about this" in order to get the truth. That how we come to truth. Then there are those who willingly spread heresies; and because the devil exists, Christians will always seem more divided than what we really are.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Here at CC we have constant disagreement.

The unfortunate truth is that the Lord allows the tares and the wheat to grow together. Therefore to expect total harmony and unity is not feasible.

The Parables of the Kingdom of Heaven as presented in Matthew 13 give us a picture of Christendom. So there is bound to be disagreement. Hopefully those who are unsaved or new to the faith will be helped by God to discern truth from error. Even the Parable of the Sower shows us different levels of faith and unbelief and different levels of Christianity.

Even while the apostles were on earth, the state of the seven churches of Asia Minor (a microcosm of all churches) was a reflection of truth vs error in the churches. That situation has not changed, and the exhortations to the seven churches are still as valid to churches today as they were at that time.

Paul speaks of the weapons of our warfare, and he also speaks of spiritual warfare involving powerful evil spirits and Satan. So Christian forums also reflect this warfare. The kingdom of darkness is warring against the Kingdom of Light, and spiritual warfare has spilled over into the political and social realm. The huge campaign by the perverts to corrupt Pre-Kindergarten and Kindergarten kids is one very serious outcome. This is a demonic attack on all children, but especially those who are defenseless. If parents in general do not wake up, their kids will be in serious trouble.

 

[Live4Him3]

Why aren't we more in one accord?

I think that you'll find the answer to this question here:

Philippians chapter 2

[1] If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
[2] Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
[3] Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
[4] Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
[5] Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
[6] Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
[7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
[8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
[9] Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
[10] That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
[11] And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
[12] Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
[13] For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Some of the things which lend themselves to Christians "being of one accord" are:

1. Letting nothing be done through strife or vainglory.
2. In lowliness of mind esteeming others better than one's self.
3. Looking not on one's own things, but also on the things of others.
4. Making one's self of no reputation.
5. Humbling one's self.
6. Being obedient.
7. Working out one's salvation with fear and trembling.
8. A willingness to do of God's good pleasure.

Conversely, the absence of such things will definitely bring discord...and these attributes are sorely lacking in many, both here and elsewhere.

Especially the working out of one's salvation with fear and trembling.

Now, sit back and watch as someone comes along and performs such an amazing feat of scriptural gymnastics that you'll wonder how they aren't an Olympic gold medalist.

You might as well grab some popcorn...

 

[Magenta]

1 Corinthians 11:19~ No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God's approval.

 

[Gideon300]

I wonder sometimes when an unbeliever points out that even believers can't agree on what the Bible is saying how much we are affecting the world? Here at CC we have constant disagreement. We all think the Bible is plain, straight forward, yet some of our beliefs are so far apart. And each one of us would say we follow the Word and are guided by the Holy Spirit and that is why we believe the way we believe.

How do we reach a world when we won't even let each other in to heaven? I've been wondering about that lately, and it's been bothering me. A well known actress that is a Christian said to two comedian friends of hers that God loves them. They said they were astounded, because no one had ever told them God loves them. And that got me to thinking, why didn't they know? I've always been very black and white in what I believe. But I wonder, are we trying to do the Holy Spirits work? A popular singing group has a song called "I Catch Em', He Cleans Em'. We're to be fishers of men. But are we trying to do work that isn't ours to do? An old singer said once, "the older I'm getting, the more people I'm letting into heaven". Does anyone else feel the same way? Or is it just me? Why aren't we more in one accord. And don't tell me "because the way you believe is wrong". Every single person here believes they are right according to the Word. If that is true, we should be able to sing "There's a Sweet, Sweet Spirit in This Place" and there isn't. Why?!

The Bible is not plain and straightforward. It is a spiritual book and its truth must be revealed by the Holy Spirit. The mind is not able to comprehend God. Confusion arises because people's minds have not been renewed. Christians need the "Spirit of Wisdom and Revelation" in order to correctly see the truth in God's word.

Each person has an individual bias, depending on upbringing and temperament. Some are negative and critical and so incline to legalism. Some are domineering and controlling and incline to focus on the power of God. Some are friendly and outgoing and avoid conflict. They don't like to upset people so they focus on the more positive aspects of the gospel. Some are placid and passive, so inclined to do nothing to stir things up.

None of this is "right". We all need to be delivered from our natural tendencies and to be free to express the life of Christ that resides within. By nature, I am one of the negative and critical types. The Lord has changed me dramatically over the last 50 years. I needed to change!
Isaiah 40:3-5

A voice of one calling: “Prepare the way for the LORD in the wilderness; make a straight highway for our God in the desert. Every valley shall be lifted up, and every mountain and hill made low; the uneven ground will become smooth, and the rugged land a plain. And the glory of the LORD will be revealed, and all humanity together will see it. For the mouth of the LORD has spoken.”…

This refers to the practice of creating a road for a king to visit a city. We need a "highway" through the soul, so that our spirit man may be freely expressed. The negative and depressed are like valleys that need to be filled in. The mountains represent the proud that need to be brought down. The uneven are those whose experience is like a yo-yo, up and down and unstable. The rough are hard and difficult to deal with types.

We all suffer all of these problems to some degree or other. God's will is that we are leveled out so that Jesus can be revealed in us and through us. Then the glory of the Lord can be revealed in in us and through us.

All that God asks of us is to be willing to be changed. He will do the rest. We cannot change ourselves and we sure can't change anyone else. All we can do is put the truth out and let it do its work. If the person receives the truth, it will set them free. If not, it will leave them unchanged. The parable of the sower applies to every Christian as well as unbelievers.

 

[kaylagrl]

The Bible is not plain and straightforward. It is a spiritual book and its truth must be revealed by the Holy Spirit. The mind is not able to comprehend God. Confusion arises because people's minds have not been renewed. Christians need the "Spirit of Wisdom and Revelation" in order to correctly see the truth in God's word.

Each person has an individual bias, depending on upbringing and temperament. Some are negative and critical and so incline to legalism. Some are domineering and controlling and incline to focus on the power of God. Some are friendly and outgoing and avoid conflict. They don't like to upset people so they focus on the more positive aspects of the gospel. Some are placid and passive, so inclined to do nothing to stir things up.

None of this is "right". We all need to be delivered from our natural tendencies and to be free to express the life of Christ that resides within. By nature, I am one of the negative and critical types. The Lord has changed me dramatically over the last 50 years. I needed to change!
Isaiah 40:3-5

A voice of one calling: “Prepare the way for the LORD in the wilderness; make a straight highway for our God in the desert. Every valley shall be lifted up, and every mountain and hill made low; the uneven ground will become smooth, and the rugged land a plain. And the glory of the LORD will be revealed, and all humanity together will see it. For the mouth of the LORD has spoken.”…

This refers to the practice of creating a road for a king to visit a city. We need a "highway" through the soul, so that our spirit man may be freely expressed. The negative and depressed are like valleys that need to be filled in. The mountains represent the proud that need to be brought down. The uneven are those whose experience is like a yo-yo, up and down and unstable. The rough are hard and difficult to deal with types.

We all suffer all of these problems to some degree or other. God's will is that we are leveled out so that Jesus can be revealed in us and through us. Then the glory of the Lord can be revealed in in us and through us.

All that God asks of us is to be willing to be changed. He will do the rest. We cannot change ourselves and we sure can't change anyone else. All we can do is put the truth out and let it do its work. If the person receives the truth, it will set them free. If not, it will leave them unchanged. The parable of the sower applies to every Christian as well as unbelievers.

Well, first off I never thought you were old enough to have experienced anything for 50 yrs. I'm not quite there yet but quickly approaching. I don't think there is anything you said that I disagree with. Maybe I look at things more from an evangelism POV because that was what I was in for so many years. Denomination didn't mean so much, it was just about leading people to the truth that Jesus saves. But your post is so eloquently put there is nothing I could add to it but an Amen.

 

[kaylagrl]

1 Corinthians 11:19~ No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God's approval.

If we are in one accord, don't we all have God's approval, if the Holy Spirit is guiding us?

 

[Gideon300]

Well, first off I never thought you were old enough to have experienced anything for 50 yrs. I'm not quite there yet but quickly approaching. I don't think there is anything you said that I disagree with. Maybe I look at things more from an evangelism POV because that was what I was in for so many years. Denomination didn't mean so much, it was just about leading people to the truth that Jesus saves. But your post is so eloquently put there is nothing I could add to it but an Amen.

I'm 71 physically. I can hardly believe it myself. I am reminded when I try to do something I once found easy but not so much now. Like climbing a ladder, for example.

 

[Magenta]

Here at CC we have constant disagreement.

Which is it: This ^

If we are in one accord, don't we all have God's approval, if the Holy Spirit is guiding us?

Or that ^ ?

I'm just not getting how it can be both

 

[Runningman]

I think honestly if we could all humble ourselves before scripture and let it say what it says we would all come to a better and closer understanding in time as the scripture formed our thinking about scripture and about Jesus

sometimes we’re saying “ the word is plain and I only believe the word “ but then we see what the word says and it’s different from what we thought

at this point we either let it correct our understanding , or we reason it away , explain it away with some other u related scripture elsewhere.

we all think we know what the Bible says , but the. We come to a forum like this d see it saying a lot of things we didn’t know it said

there’s a point where we either head down the path Gods word really does place before us and let the word be our guide and shape our belief and faith

or we think we know better so when we come to points where the scripture disagrees with our prior thoughts , we reject it , explai. It into oblivion and continue on in our own belief of who God is and what he’s said

we need to submit to the word and let that be right even when we had not understood it before that is able to change our thinking and our direction in life

Often instead we make one scripture negate another because we all have varying beliefs we’ve heard of until this point we’ve been taught various ideas of what’s in the Bible but what’s really there can save us

and bring us together if we accept and believe together what the gospel really teaches us

Amen. I think there are two kinds of Christians: those who love the truth and those who don't love the truth. The thing is that there are so many "truths" in Christianity that not many people really know the full truth, but most know atleast some of the truth. Most agree on the core truth.

Now, according to some estimates, we have tens of thouands of Christian denominations. So Christianity is extremely divided as we cannot even agree on most anything. This message board is a perfect reflection of the state of real-life Christianity. Not saying that's right or wrong, but just the reality.

The question to me is what did Jesus intend? There are Biblical examples of diversity of opinion and perspective, John 21:21-23 being one example, where no recorded attempt to confirm or deny the rumors was made. Or the the Bible being intentionally vague on many points, one example being "wars and rumors of wars" per Matthew 24:6. There have probably been a million wars since Jesus said those words in the Olivet discourse, but which war specifically was He alluding to? Or the ammount of studying required to fully understand something in the Bible when it takes nothing but a glance at the Bible to read something and totally misunderstand it out of context then spread that misunderstanding to others.

Those things, on top of all of the misinformation that is going around, make unity of knowledge difficult, if not impossible, when factoring in human stubborness and pride.

There is one thing most Christians have in common, both Protestant and non-Protestants, and it's the belief in and acceptance of the death and resurrection of Jesus, sinful humans can be reconciled to God, and thereby are offered salvation and the promise of eternal life.

Maybe that's the best we'll ever get in this life?

 

[pottersclay]

Hyper critical.....thats what we have turned the Lords word into. A slip of the lip and ill sink your ship.
Truth is jesus had a passion for food just invite him in and he'll sup with you.
Dinner conversation and the gospel live and in person.
There are 3 things needed for a harvest...
1. Plant the seed
2. Fertilize when needed.
3. Water when needed.
Let The Lord harvest .only he knows the time.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The unbeliever has lack of perception, though. To the unbeliever anybody that says "i'm a christian" is going to be reckoned a christian to them, even if they have the dumbest doctrine in the world. They have to learn not to lump Christians and "christians" together.

I would point out, to encourage, that your profile given and received far more green check marks than red X's... by about a factor of 10. Mine's about the same on a much smaller scale. So while we have constant disagreement, there is even more constant agreement!

Even a heretic will say that, though.

That's just the nature of things. Not everyone that claims to be a Christian makes it to heaven; so naturally, we point out things that are incompatible with the faith when they appear.

Because the way some people believe... is wrong. I'd be lying if I said something else!

Pride, I'm sure, creeps around bible discussion. Nobody starts off knowing everything or being totally correct, just with a little truth and a lot of ideas that place-hold for the truth until they are either verified or excluded; because at some point everyone has to humble themselves and say "I don't know" or "I was wrong about this" in order to get the truth. That how we come to truth. Then there are those who willingly spread heresies; and because the devil exists, Christians will always seem more divided than what we really are.

amen wonderful Points

“Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.”
‭‭James‬ ‭4:10

“Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:18, 21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭

“Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls”

“Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls”

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:45‬ ‭

it’s about learning from the lord not knowing better than him or others but being his disciples and students recognizing who he is and his goodness and gentleness and provisions towards us in Christ

“All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:27-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

discipleship means we’re ever learning some are just getting along others have walked along time all
Belong to Jesus though the babes and the older folks and w ere always ever learning and growing

 

[kaylagrl]

I'm 71 physically. I can hardly believe it myself. I am reminded when I try to do something I once found easy but not so much now. Like climbing a ladder, for example.

Well don't feel bad, I'd be hard pressed to climb a ladder myself and I'm still in my 40s. lol

 

[Gideon300]

Well don't feel bad, I'd be hard pressed to climb a ladder myself and I'm still in my 40s. lol

Do your body a favour. Try to stay active. Getting back into exercise when you are older is hard. I had some health issues that set me back. It's been tough getting fit again.