What is meant when people say 'guns don't kill people; people do'?
- Thread starter VickyK
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I heard today that the US has the worst homicide rate from guns among 193 countries, but if you remove the data from five cities, all run by democrats, all with the strongest gun regulations in the country (LA, Chicago, NYC, Philadelphia and Washington DC) then the US is 183 out of 193.
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If we are going to compare guns to cars, and I think that is a very fair analogy, then you need to include everything.
1. Everyone should have to get a license before being able to use a gun. So imagine a gang member is caught with a gun but we can't prove a crime so we have to let him go. No, if he doesn't have a license that proves he is qualified to use a gun then that would be the same offense as catching someone driving a car without a license. This process should involve a written test that can be done on the computer at DMV or some other location and then you should have to appear on the shooting range with a gun instructor who will certify that you know how to properly use a gun and keep it safe.
2. Everyone who buys a gun must also get liability insurance. No one talks about this because compared to the deaths this seems trivial, but it would go a very long way to preventing these events. Think about the 19 kids and two teachers shot and killed. The insurance company would have to pay out damages, say $1 million to each person killed. This one event would have cost them over $20 million, and there would be other damages besides those who are killed. Here is why this is important. You have a big, powerful rich company with a financial interest to prevent these attacks.
When this kid goes to buy his guns and his ammo and his bullet proof vests or any other equipment he has to provide proof of insurance. As a result the insurance company would immediately be notified and using their powerful computers and algorithms and AI there would be an immediate Red Flag pop up.
Not only so but insurance companies would give you discounts if you list your social media accounts, so by monitoring those the red flags would pop up two weeks before the event.
What we need is a powerful ally with the resources and tools to spot and react to red flag events like an 18 year old kid saying he is going to commit mass murder on social media or with an 18 year old working part time at a fast food restaurant buying 83k worth of guns, ammo, equipment and a truck.
Do you want to know why Chicago has such horrific gun crime? When we find the bullets and shell casings we could identify the gun, however, this information is not allowed to be digitized so investigators have to go to trailers housing millions of paper documents that provide that information. It is an impossible task. However, if everything were on the various Insurance agencies computers then it would be easy for the cops to send out a request to all the insurance agencies to identify the gun and the owner and they could immediately get a hit and a response.
Again, if a gang member is caught with a gun and they don't have insurance that would be another violation they could charge them with.
1. Everyone should have to get a license before being able to use a gun. So imagine a gang member is caught with a gun but we can't prove a crime so we have to let him go. No, if he doesn't have a license that proves he is qualified to use a gun then that would be the same offense as catching someone driving a car without a license. This process should involve a written test that can be done on the computer at DMV or some other location and then you should have to appear on the shooting range with a gun instructor who will certify that you know how to properly use a gun and keep it safe.
2. Everyone who buys a gun must also get liability insurance. No one talks about this because compared to the deaths this seems trivial, but it would go a very long way to preventing these events. Think about the 19 kids and two teachers shot and killed. The insurance company would have to pay out damages, say $1 million to each person killed. This one event would have cost them over $20 million, and there would be other damages besides those who are killed. Here is why this is important. You have a big, powerful rich company with a financial interest to prevent these attacks.
When this kid goes to buy his guns and his ammo and his bullet proof vests or any other equipment he has to provide proof of insurance. As a result the insurance company would immediately be notified and using their powerful computers and algorithms and AI there would be an immediate Red Flag pop up.
Not only so but insurance companies would give you discounts if you list your social media accounts, so by monitoring those the red flags would pop up two weeks before the event.
What we need is a powerful ally with the resources and tools to spot and react to red flag events like an 18 year old kid saying he is going to commit mass murder on social media or with an 18 year old working part time at a fast food restaurant buying 83k worth of guns, ammo, equipment and a truck.
Do you want to know why Chicago has such horrific gun crime? When we find the bullets and shell casings we could identify the gun, however, this information is not allowed to be digitized so investigators have to go to trailers housing millions of paper documents that provide that information. It is an impossible task. However, if everything were on the various Insurance agencies computers then it would be easy for the cops to send out a request to all the insurance agencies to identify the gun and the owner and they could immediately get a hit and a response.
Again, if a gang member is caught with a gun and they don't have insurance that would be another violation they could charge them with.
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Our culture, not guns, is to blame for the mass killings. The individuals who perpetrate these insane murderous rampages are filled with hate for others and maybe for themselves. They also want attention and killing people is a way of getting that attention.
Is it possible to change a country's culture to eliminate murder and violence? Actually it is but it is time consuming, won't happen overnight, and it requires that the people actually want/demand change. Here's a couple of examples of where murderous cultures actually did manage to change for the better:
In Northern Ireland, Protestants and Catholics were murdering each other, men/women/children, for political reasons. This went on for 30 years, 1968-1998 with no apparant solution. But the people finally got sick and tired of all the carnage and quit the violence, agreeing to share government power and live in peace. The Protestants and Catholics of N Ireland may not love one another but they have put away their weapons.
If you look at the USA, in the South there were many murders of blacks and those who supported rights for African Americans. There were many sadistic murders of individuals, lynchings, church/school bombings.....etc... The hatred seemed overwhelming, Yet today, in 2022, this type of violence has disappeared in the South. And many Southerners see the errors of their ways. Yes, there may still be hatred between the races in the South, but the murders have stopped.
When murder/hatred is prevalent people have a choice to stop it or to continue on. That is the case in the Mideast between the Israelis and the Palestinians. No peace in sight after 75 years because of the hatreds and the philosophy of 'An Eye for an Eye......'
It's up to the people of the world to stop the murders. But, frankly, it doesn't look good for the USA. The USA is abandoning Christianity very rapidly, abandoning Jesus' teaching of 'Love thy neighbor and enemy'. Secularists don't believe in any of the teachings of Christ. Why should they, they don't believe in Jesus.
Expect things to get worse in the USA, no matter how many laws the country makes about guns. When people hate others they will kill others. And don't make the mistake of thinking that this is a 'mental health issue' because it itsn't. Instead it's a matter of evil pride that demands that I get my own way.
Is it possible to change a country's culture to eliminate murder and violence? Actually it is but it is time consuming, won't happen overnight, and it requires that the people actually want/demand change. Here's a couple of examples of where murderous cultures actually did manage to change for the better:
In Northern Ireland, Protestants and Catholics were murdering each other, men/women/children, for political reasons. This went on for 30 years, 1968-1998 with no apparant solution. But the people finally got sick and tired of all the carnage and quit the violence, agreeing to share government power and live in peace. The Protestants and Catholics of N Ireland may not love one another but they have put away their weapons.
If you look at the USA, in the South there were many murders of blacks and those who supported rights for African Americans. There were many sadistic murders of individuals, lynchings, church/school bombings.....etc... The hatred seemed overwhelming, Yet today, in 2022, this type of violence has disappeared in the South. And many Southerners see the errors of their ways. Yes, there may still be hatred between the races in the South, but the murders have stopped.
When murder/hatred is prevalent people have a choice to stop it or to continue on. That is the case in the Mideast between the Israelis and the Palestinians. No peace in sight after 75 years because of the hatreds and the philosophy of 'An Eye for an Eye......'
It's up to the people of the world to stop the murders. But, frankly, it doesn't look good for the USA. The USA is abandoning Christianity very rapidly, abandoning Jesus' teaching of 'Love thy neighbor and enemy'. Secularists don't believe in any of the teachings of Christ. Why should they, they don't believe in Jesus.
Expect things to get worse in the USA, no matter how many laws the country makes about guns. When people hate others they will kill others. And don't make the mistake of thinking that this is a 'mental health issue' because it itsn't. Instead it's a matter of evil pride that demands that I get my own way.
Stricter gun laws would help limit the acquisition of guns. But here is what law abiding gun owners are afraid of. If you allow the anti-gun politicians an inch they'll take a mile. If you allow them to pass one anti gun bill, make no mistake that there will be another such law right around the corner.....then another etc.............
I disagree with you 100% on having to register a firearm. Only law abiding citizens would do this, for sure criminals wouldn't. And, once you register your firearm, the govetrnent can knock on your door when they decide the time is right, and take it.
Like many on this board, I'm a law abiding citizen and own both a hand gun and M1 Carbine. Neither has been fired for 40 years and both are safely secured. But, frankly, I'd never register them with the government no matter what laws they passed. Frankly I don't trust the government at all.
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I agree with you that a government registry of Guns is a violation of the 2nd Amendment and is unconstitutional.
However, having a variety of private insurers have this information that the government would then have to subpoena in the event of a crime is not a violation. This is why I say we need liability insurance for gun owners.
This will not be expensive. They will take into account the type of gun, your history as a gun owner, and where you live. Buying a rifle to shoot bear for someone living in Alaska or Montana would be far different from someone buying a handgun who lives in Chicago.
If you have owned guns for 20 years it would probably be a routine task to get another one. But if you are 18 and this is your first gun and you want an AR-15 or a Glock they would probably want a deeper dive. Access to your medical records, mental health records, and social media accounts.
Let's say after this review everything is fine and you can buy the gun. You then want to buy 3,000 rounds of ammo, bullet proof vest, and a second gun. They may balk at that. For example when you filled out the application you may have said you want to fire the gun at ranges as a hobby. OK, you can buy your ammo at the range that you are shooting. Why do you need 3,000 rounds at home?
However, having a variety of private insurers have this information that the government would then have to subpoena in the event of a crime is not a violation. This is why I say we need liability insurance for gun owners.
This will not be expensive. They will take into account the type of gun, your history as a gun owner, and where you live. Buying a rifle to shoot bear for someone living in Alaska or Montana would be far different from someone buying a handgun who lives in Chicago.
If you have owned guns for 20 years it would probably be a routine task to get another one. But if you are 18 and this is your first gun and you want an AR-15 or a Glock they would probably want a deeper dive. Access to your medical records, mental health records, and social media accounts.
Let's say after this review everything is fine and you can buy the gun. You then want to buy 3,000 rounds of ammo, bullet proof vest, and a second gun. They may balk at that. For example when you filled out the application you may have said you want to fire the gun at ranges as a hobby. OK, you can buy your ammo at the range that you are shooting. Why do you need 3,000 rounds at home?
Ammo at ranges is notoriously over priced. And, an empty gun is just a poorly designed club.
Most people buy ammo when it is on sale.... much like anything else.... ever wonder why Black Friday is so crazy?
If ammo is nearly half of what it usually is, most people stock up. There are also ammo shortages, when you cannot find ammo at ANY price. A wise consumer buys when the prices are low, and supply is high.
So it's ok to stockpile toilet paper and peanut butter, but not ammo? Isn't that a tad prejudicial?
Most people buy ammo when it is on sale.... much like anything else.... ever wonder why Black Friday is so crazy?
If ammo is nearly half of what it usually is, most people stock up. There are also ammo shortages, when you cannot find ammo at ANY price. A wise consumer buys when the prices are low, and supply is high.
So it's ok to stockpile toilet paper and peanut butter, but not ammo? Isn't that a tad prejudicial?
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I agree, however, "a well regulated militia" could definitely include liability insurance particularly based on our recent history. After these various mass shootings are victims compensated monetarily? If the answer is no that is outrageous.
If a cop is shot and killed in the line of duty the survivors get $175,000 one time payment and there is also a monthly supplementary income benefit equal to the monthly salary of the person killed. This doesn't apply to teachers! Why not, that is outrageous!
Also why are tax payers paying this? The person who shot the officer or teacher should be liable.
If a cop is shot and killed in the line of duty the survivors get $175,000 one time payment and there is also a monthly supplementary income benefit equal to the monthly salary of the person killed. This doesn't apply to teachers! Why not, that is outrageous!
Also why are tax payers paying this? The person who shot the officer or teacher should be liable.
Yes, and 18 year olds pay more for liability insurance than 50 year olds with a history of safe driving.
If the kid has a dad or uncle then they can buy the ammo and he can pay them back for it.
This kid in Texas didn't buy his ammo on black Friday. No doubt the insurance algorithms can take sale prices into account.
I have always had life insurance as part of my job, it is perfunctory, the amount is enough to bury you without any financial hardship on your family. However, recently we almost got life insurance for my wife on our own. That is a completely different thing, they go through your medical history with a fine tooth comb, the process is extremely intrusive and ultimately I talked my wife out of it because it is a racket. That is just the way it is.
If the kid has a dad or uncle then they can buy the ammo and he can pay them back for it.
This kid in Texas didn't buy his ammo on black Friday. No doubt the insurance algorithms can take sale prices into account.
I have always had life insurance as part of my job, it is perfunctory, the amount is enough to bury you without any financial hardship on your family. However, recently we almost got life insurance for my wife on our own. That is a completely different thing, they go through your medical history with a fine tooth comb, the process is extremely intrusive and ultimately I talked my wife out of it because it is a racket. That is just the way it is.