What does "the coming of the Lord" in the NT refer to?

[FreeGrace2]

Actually, if we read of the resurection of Daniels people in Daniel 12, we find those who are resurrected at that time are both righteous and those who appear to be wicked. They are both raised at the same time. Not 1000 years apart.

Are you referring to v.2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

What this verse doesn't say is that they occur together. Paul made the same point in Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

So yes, there will be 2 resurrections, one for the saved and one for the unsaved.

The resurection which takes place 1000 years after Daniels people are of a different people.

The FIRST resurrection is for the saved, as Rev 20:5 says. Those who will be resurrected 1,000 years later will be for the unsaved.

All of Daniels people who's names are written are raised at the same time. Those who have done good and those who have done bad.

The issue of "good and bad" refers to reward or lack of it for the saved and how "tolerable" it will be for the unsaved in the lake of fire.

Salvation is not based on works in any way.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Are you referring to v.2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

What this verse doesn't say is that they occur together. Paul made the same point in Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

So yes, there will be 2 resurrections, one for the saved and one for the unsaved.


The FIRST resurrection is for the saved, as Rev 20:5 says. Those who will be resurrected 1,000 years later will be for the unsaved.


The issue of "good and bad" refers to reward or lack of it for the saved and how "tolerable" it will be for the unsaved in the lake of fire.

Salvation is not based on works in any way.

Actually it does say they occur together.
Matter of fact the words are "AT THAT TIME".

Read the first three words of Daniel 12:1

https://biblehub.com/daniel/12-1.htm

It is "AT THAT TIME" Daniels people are delivered, and multitudes that sleep in the dust awake.

"AT THAT TIME" does not mean now and 1000 years from now. Also the great tribulation that takes place" AT THAT TIME"does not continue for the next 1000 years.

What this resurection does not talk about are the people who are not Daniels people.

 

[Runningman]

I do believe strongly that the Holy Spirit is Lord and God. He is One Lord God with the Father and the Son as the historic Church taught.

On the thread topic, though, I agree with those who say the Rapture is Post-Tribulation, and in fact Post-Resurrection, and not Pre-Tribulation. The verse in 1 Thessalonians clearly says we who are alive will not precede those who have fallen asleep. They will rise first, and only then will the Rapture take place, with the Loud Trumpet, on the Last Day, at the Second Coming, and it's not a "secret rapture".

1 Thess 4:15 "According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words."

I love everything I’ve seen you say so far because as far as I can tell it’s all biblical.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Exactly.


Actually, your conclusion is flat wrong. I guess you have difficulty reading or something.

I agree with everything in this post. I've been arguing about believers needing to understand the difference between inwelling and filling of the Spirit from the beginning.

Unless you’re with the New Age heretics who believe that Jesus is in them and Antichrist is just their own shame and social stigma, Jesus is in heaven, the one that’s in us is the Holy Spirit. Moreover, Holy Spirit is always with us, it’s not like it gets “activated” when you’re being tempted or in trouble or something, then suddenly you’re “filled” with the Holy Spirit. Nope, the five wise virgins had already prepared in advance, and the five foolish virgins didn’t get a free refill of Holy Spirit. You’ve got it wrong.

 

[Evmur]

FreeGrace2 said:
Do you believe there will be a trip to heaven in glorified bodies?

If so, what verse or passage makes that clear?

Thanks.

Yo man.


OK, so where is the verse about a trip to heaven in glorified bodies? What you quoted says nothing about such a trip.

Do you have one?

"Do you have one?" ... a glorified body? not yet, it's on the way.


But positionally we are already seated with Christ in heavenly places, we's the heavenly body.

 

[Magenta]

So Christians will be orbiting the globe in the stratosphere? What utter rubbish!

A flat earther would agree

 

[FreeGrace2]

Actually it does say they occur together.
Matter of fact the words are "AT THAT TIME".

Read the first three words of Daniel 12:1

How about we read ALL of v.1 and 2.

1 “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered.
2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

The red words refer to the angel Michael arising, which will be BEFORE the tribulation, as the blue words show. But there will NOT be any resurrection before the tribulation.

v.2 is simply a statement about there being 2 resurrections; for for the saved and one for the unsaved.

Here are 2 verses that show the same thing:

John 5:28,29
28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice
29 and come out—those who have done what is good (the saved) will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil {the unsaved) will rise to be condemned.

First, this isn't about lifestyle, since salvation is about faith in Christ. Second, it says only "a time is coming". That refers to the fact that both resurrections will occur. It doesn't say they will occur together.

Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. iow, one resurrection for the saved and one for the unsaved.

Here are 2 verses that prove that these 2 resurrections cannot be at the same time:

1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

This is clear: all believers (those who belong to Him) will be resurrected "when He comes" which is the Second Advent.

Rev 20:5 - (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

v.4 establishes the context for this "first resurrection", which is the martyrs of the tribulation. And since all believers will be resurrected "when He comes" it is clear that v.4 will be the time of the Second Advent.

So, the parenthesis in v.5 refers to all unbelievers, who will have their own resurrection 1,000 years later. And what occurs at the end of the Millennial reign of Christ? The GWT judgment, which is for all the unsaved.

So, there you have it. 2 resurrections, one for the saved, and one for the unsaved. 1,000 years apart.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Unless you’re with the New Age heretics who believe that Jesus is in them and Antichrist is just their own shame and social stigma, Jesus is in heaven, the one that’s in us is the Holy Spirit.

Why do you keep going on about the NA heretics? I've been clear enough so that you should be able to understand. So what's standing in your way?

Yes, Jesus is in heaven and the Holy Spirit is in every believer. Got it?

Moreover, Holy Spirit is always with us, it’s not like it gets “activated” when you’re being tempted or in trouble or something, then suddenly you’re “filled” with the Holy Spirit.

Can you explain the difference between the indwelling and fllling of the Spirit, and HOW TO be filled, since being filled is a command from the Lord?

Nope, the five wise virgins had already prepared in advance, and the five foolish virgins didn’t get a free refill of Holy Spirit. You’ve got it wrong.

Since I didn't mention that parable, what is it that you think I've gotten wrong? Please don't just throw out these claims without any evidence to support them.

Tell me exactly what I have "gotten wrong" so I can correct the error. Thank you.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Do you believe there will be a trip to heaven in glorified bodies?

"Do you have one?" ... a glorified body? not yet, it's on the way.

True, but this doesn't answer my question. Can you answer my question? With evidence?

But positionally we are already seated with Christ in heavenly places, we's the heavenly body.

This isn't an answer. You know 1 Thess 4. Will there be a trip to heaven in resurrected/glorified bodies AFTER the resurrection?

 

[Mem]

The red words refer to the angel Michael arising, which will be BEFORE the tribulation, as the blue words show. But there will NOT be any resurrection before the tribulation.

I'm glad to have seen this specifically pointed out! It helps a lot to clarify the error in assuming this Michael event standing up, before the tribulation, to guard 'your people,' is the same as that Michael event which binds the dragon after the tribulation.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Why do you keep going on about the NA heretics? I've been clear enough so that you should be able to understand. So what's standing in your way?

Yes, Jesus is in heaven and the Holy Spirit is in every believer. Got it?


Can you explain the difference between the indwelling and fllling of the Spirit, and HOW TO be filled, since being filled is a command from the Lord?


Since I didn't mention that parable, what is it that you think I've gotten wrong? Please don't just throw out these claims without any evidence to support them.

Tell me exactly what I have "gotten wrong" so I can correct the error. Thank you.

"You will be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them to the Gentiles. But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak; for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you." (Matt. 10:19-21) That's how the filling of the Spirit works, later in Acts that was literally fulfilled in Stephen and Peter when they gave their sermons. Go figure.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

How about we read ALL of v.1 and 2.

1 “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered.
2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

The red words refer to the angel Michael arising, which will be BEFORE the tribulation, as the blue words show. But there will NOT be any resurrection before the tribulation.

v.2 is simply a statement about there being 2 resurrections; for for the saved and one for the unsaved.

Here are 2 verses that show the same thing:

John 5:28,29
28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice
29 and come out—those who have done what is good (the saved) will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil {the unsaved) will rise to be condemned.

First, this isn't about lifestyle, since salvation is about faith in Christ. Second, it says only "a time is coming". That refers to the fact that both resurrections will occur. It doesn't say they will occur together.

Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. iow, one resurrection for the saved and one for the unsaved.

Here are 2 verses that prove that these 2 resurrections cannot be at the same time:

1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

This is clear: all believers (those who belong to Him) will be resurrected "when He comes" which is the Second Advent.

Rev 20:5 - (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

v.4 establishes the context for this "first resurrection", which is the martyrs of the tribulation. And since all believers will be resurrected "when He comes" it is clear that v.4 will be the time of the Second Advent.

So, the parenthesis in v.5 refers to all unbelievers, who will have their own resurrection 1,000 years later. And what occurs at the end of the Millennial reign of Christ? The GWT judgment, which is for all the unsaved.

So, there you have it. 2 resurrections, one for the saved, and one for the unsaved. 1,000 years apart.

AT THAT TIME actually means AT THAT TIME.
Jesus used the exact same words in the gospel.
You should stop attempting to change what is written to suit your agenda and change your agenda to suit what is written.
Both the just and unjust in Israel are raised at
AT THAT TIME.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

I'm glad to have seen this specifically pointed out! It helps a lot to clarify the error in assuming this Michael event standing up, before the tribulation, to guard 'your people,' is the same as that Michael event which binds the dragon after the tribulation.

Michael stands up when the abomination that causes desolation is placed in Jerusalem. It's the abomination placed in Jerusalem by the norths armed for es that causes the great tribulation.
Just think of Hiroshima or Nagasaki. The other times the norths armed forces placed the abomination that causes desolation on cities.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

How about we read ALL of v.1 and 2.

1 “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered.
2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

The red words refer to the angel Michael arising, which will be BEFORE the tribulation, as the blue words show. But there will NOT be any resurrection before the tribulation.

v.2 is simply a statement about there being 2 resurrections; for for the saved and one for the unsaved.

Here are 2 verses that show the same thing:

John 5:28,29
28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice
29 and come out—those who have done what is good (the saved) will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil {the unsaved) will rise to be condemned.

First, this isn't about lifestyle, since salvation is about faith in Christ. Second, it says only "a time is coming". That refers to the fact that both resurrections will occur. It doesn't say they will occur together.

Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. iow, one resurrection for the saved and one for the unsaved.

Here are 2 verses that prove that these 2 resurrections cannot be at the same time:

1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

This is clear: all believers (those who belong to Him) will be resurrected "when He comes" which is the Second Advent.

Rev 20:5 - (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

v.4 establishes the context for this "first resurrection", which is the martyrs of the tribulation. And since all believers will be resurrected "when He comes" it is clear that v.4 will be the time of the Second Advent.

So, the parenthesis in v.5 refers to all unbelievers, who will have their own resurrection 1,000 years later. And what occurs at the end of the Millennial reign of Christ? The GWT judgment, which is for all the unsaved.

So, there you have it. 2 resurrections, one for the saved, and one for the unsaved. 1,000 years apart.

https://biblehub.com/daniel/12-2.htm


https://biblehub.com/daniel/12-2.htm

It doesn't say this event is two separate events devided by 1000 years.
You can mislead who you will by saying Daniel says that but you know darn well he didn't.

 

[Mem]

Michael stands up when the abomination that causes desolation is placed in Jerusalem. It's the abomination placed in Jerusalem by the norths armed for es that causes the great tribulation.
Just think of Hiroshima or Nagasaki. The other times the norths armed forces placed the abomination that causes desolation on cities.

the aod is a nuke?

 

[Shilohsfoal]

the aod is a nuke?

The abomination that causes desolation was invented for one purpose, to cause desolation.
It causes a great earthquake and it causes the heavens to burn with a fervent heat so hot it melts the elements.
So when you read of a cloud ascending into heaven from Jerusalem,you know what caused it.

Yes, it's a nuke.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

The abomination that causes desolation was invented for one purpose, to cause desolation.
It causes a great earthquake and it causes the heavens to burn with a fervent heat so hot it melts the elements.
So when you read of a cloud ascending into heaven from Jerusalem,you know what caused it.

Yes, it's a nuke.

Yep, it's not just "abomination OF desolation," an abominable state of desolation, but rather abomination that CAUSES desolation, in which there's a causation. When Jesus used that term, that was the prediction of the siege of Jerusalem in 70AD.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Yep, it's not just "abomination OF desolation," an abominable state of desolation, but rather abomination that CAUSES desolation, in which there's a causation. When Jesus used that term, that was the prediction of the siege of Jerusalem in 70AD.

Not hardly.
If we pay close attention and study carefully we learn the abomination that causes desolation is placed in Jerusalem on the day of the Lord.

It's what causes flesh to be consumed off those who attacked Jerusalem. Oh no, if you thought 70 AD was great tribulation, you havnt seen anything yet.

https://biblehub.com/kjv/zechariah/14-12.htm

Wait till my nations military gets done with Jerusalem and all the middle east then you will know what great tribulation is all about.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Can you explain the difference between the indwelling and fllling of the Spirit, and HOW TO be filled, since being filled is a command from the Lord?

"You will be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them to the Gentiles. But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak; for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you." (Matt. 10:19-21) That's how the filling of the Spirit works

I know how the Spirit works. That wasn't my question. Do you know the difference between the indwelling and filling?
And, do you know HOW to be filled with the Spirit?

 

[FreeGrace2]

AT THAT TIME actually means AT THAT TIME.
Jesus used the exact same words in the gospel.

I explained from the context (v.1) what it referred to.

You should stop attempting to change what is written to suit your agenda and change your agenda to suit what is written.

I showed from CONTEXT what the phrase refers to. That isnt changing anything. Except maybe your opinion about v.2.

Both the just and unjust in Israel are raised at
AT THAT TIME.

The words "at that time" refer to a time BEFORE the Tribulation. And NO believer is resurrected before the Tribulation.