What does "the coming of the Lord" in the NT refer to?

[Carry_Your_Name]

You have no clue.


I really really wish you'd at least read my whole post.

I pointed out what the Pharisees were doing about Jesus' miracles. Have you witnessed Jesus in the flesh performing miracles?


Again, you seem to miss a lot. Simon the sorcerer didn't die. And there is no mention of him being punished. Please read Acts 8 thoroughly.


You are the denial one. Everything I pointed out is in the Bible. You just don't want to accept it.

Or, your reading skills have kept you from even reading the truth. Simon dying. That's a good one!!

Disciples are authorized to exercise Jesus’s authority by the power of the Holy Spirit. Jesus gave that prediction in John 14:19-20: “A little while longer And the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me, because I live, you will live also. At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.” This is clearly referring to the indwelling of his Holy Spirit, and even Satan understands that (Rev 13:12), but unfortunately it’s beyond your comprehension.

 

[Evmur]

Do you believe there will be a trip to heaven in glorified bodies?

If so, what verse or passage makes that clear?

Thanks.

Yo man.

Paul speaking about the resurrection of the just [those in Christ] says"lo I tell you a mystery, we shall not all sleep but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of the eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound and the dead will be raised imperishable and we shall be changed."

"The dead in Christ will be raised first then we which are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord, so shall we ever be with Him"

 

[justpassinthrough]

Jesus said :
Joh_6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh_6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh_6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

What comes after the last day?

The age to come comes after the last day.


Some would have us believe He raises us up, seven years before the last day.




JPT

 

[Evmur]

The age to come comes after the last day.


Some would have us believe He raises us up, seven years before the last day.




JPT

The last day, the day of the Lord, a day with the Lord is a 1, 000 years ... it is a difficult one that one.

We are not all pre-tribulation rapture believers, if the first resurrection is after the 7 years then it makes sense. We are raised at the last day.

 

[TMS]

Could you explain what you mean by "rapture" please? I was brought up being taught that it was when Jesus comes "in the air" and glorifies all believers, both living and dead, and taking them to heaven.

Is your view different?

My view is the same. ....
Second coming = resurrect and gathering the saved (dead and alive), and the wicked will die because of the Gods glory.

When Jesus finishes the Judgement and every case is sealed, He will return. The saved will return to Heaven to be with Jesus.
Every eye shall see Him.
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

 

[justpassinthrough]

The last day, the day of the Lord, a day with the Lord is a 1, 000 years ... it is a difficult one that one.

We are not all pre-tribulation rapture believers, if the first resurrection is after the 7 years then it makes sense. We are raised at the last day.

A day to the Lord is as a thousand years, refers to the “Sabbath day” of rest being a thousand years, in which we reign and rule with Christ here on earth with Him for a thousand years after He returns and removes the enemies and casts the devil and his angels into hell.


We have been here 6000 years since Adam and soon we will be entering the seventh prophetic day, the seventh thousandth year.


The weekly Sabbath points us to this “rest to come” when we no longer have physical bodies that strive with the Spirit, rather we will have glorified bodies that shine like the sun with the glory of God.


So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.
Colossians 2:16-17



For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. Hebrews 4:8-9






JPT

 

[Runningman]

Are you offended with what Peter commands believers to do?


I don't find any commands coming from the Holy Spirit in the Bible.


Don't be ridiculous. My position has been clear all along. All 3 members of the Trinity have the same essence. Do you understand that?


Your conclusions are beyond ridiculous.


Actually, the Bible is clear that Jesus considers His Father as His Lord.


OK, so you don't understand what David meant then. In v.44, The first "LORD" refers to the Father, and the second "Lord" refers to Jesus.

So, no wonder you are so confused.


None of these verses even mention 'authority'. So read them again. Power, yes, but no mention of authority.


You still haven't shown that. And it seems you strongly disagree with Peter's command in 1 Pet 3:15.


The Bible says that Jesus is Lord.


Yes, the Bible describes both Father and Son as Lord.


If you don't know by now that I have told you that the Father Son and Holy Spirit, the Trinity, all have the same essence, then there is no reason to have any kind of conversation with you. Because you are just not really paying attention.

Your goofy questions reveal your agenda of ad hominem towards others.

2 Corinthians 3:17,18
17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You said the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are “of the same essence” totally dodging the question.

I clarified the issue. Sorry you missed it.

You boast about only believing in Biblical things, but you strain and gnat and swallow a camel.

You can call it whatever you want. My beliefs are found IN the Bible and there are verses that SAY what I believe. You CANNOT do that.

Nothing you’re arguing for is Biblical.

Thank you for your opinion.

The Holy Spirit is a Lord and the Holy Spirit is God.

Of course He is God. But you CANNOT find a verse that calls the Spirit Lord.

There’s no verse that says they are “of the same essence.” Clearly you aren’t eager to refer to the Holy Spirit as God.

I just did. Again. Would you please at least READ what I post before you make such grotesquely WRONG comments.

You seem to really have no idea who the God of the Bible is or why you believe what you do. You certainly didn’t get this from the Bible. That’s some home-brewed new age religion material you’re displaying.

This is beyond pathetic.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Disciples are authorized to exercise Jesus’s authority by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Exactly.

Jesus gave that prediction in John 14:19-20: “A little while longer And the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me, because I live, you will live also. At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.” This is clearly referring to the indwelling of his Holy Spirit, and even Satan understands that (Rev 13:12), but unfortunately it’s beyond your comprehension.

Actually, your conclusion is flat wrong. I guess you have difficulty reading or something.

I agree with everything in this post. I've been arguing about believers needing to understand the difference between inwelling and filling of the Spirit from the beginning.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Do you believe there will be a trip to heaven in glorified bodies?

If so, what verse or passage makes that clear?

Thanks.

Yo man.

Paul speaking about the resurrection of the just [those in Christ] says"lo I tell you a mystery, we shall not all sleep but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of the eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound and the dead will be raised imperishable and we shall be changed."

Yo man.

"The dead in Christ will be raised first then we which are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord, so shall we ever be with Him"

OK, so where is the verse about a trip to heaven in glorified bodies? What you quoted says nothing about such a trip.

Do you have one?

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Could you explain what you mean by "rapture" please? I was brought up being taught that it was when Jesus comes "in the air" and glorifies all believers, both living and dead, and taking them to heaven.

Is your view different?

My view is the same. ....
Second coming = resurrect and gathering the saved (dead and alive), and the wicked will die because of the Gods glory.

When Jesus finishes the Judgement and every case is sealed, He will return. The saved will return to Heaven to be with Jesus.
Every eye shall see Him.
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

I don't think we do agree.

Since there is no mention of a pretrib resurrection with trip to heaven, and we know there will be a resurrection when Jesus comes back to earth for His Millennial kingdom reign, that is when all believers are given a glorified body and will serve/reign with Him. That is when the Bema occurs and believers are rewarded for obedience and faithfulness, or not.

 

[Runningman]

you CANNOT find a verse that calls the Spirit Lord.

2 Corinthians 3:17,18
17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Now humble yourself and beg God for forgiveness for ever doubting the Holy Spirit is Lord.

 

[FreeGrace2]

2 Corinthians 3:17,18
17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

The ministry of Jesus and the Spirit are inseparably linked (cf. 2 Cor. 3:17-18). The ministry of the Spirit is to magnify Jesus (cf. John 16:8-14).

Are you trying to refute 1 Pet 3:15 or something?

 

[Runningman]

The ministry of Jesus and the Spirit are inseparably linked (cf. 2 Cor. 3:17-18). The ministry of the Spirit is to magnify Jesus (cf. John 16:8-14).

Are you trying to refute 1 Pet 3:15 or something?

The Bible says the Holy Spirit is Lord. You’re a false teacher pushing a false message. I couldn’t find this verse yesterday, but in my spirit I knew the Holy Spirit is Lord, but in your spirit you rejected the Lordship of the Holy Spirit. That’s telling.

Now today I’ve found the verse. Now you don’t need to say anything or argue about this anymore. You can clearly see Paul called the Holy Spirit Lord. That means you’re wrong.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

This passage is probably the most used to teach about a pretribulational rapture.

1 These 4-
14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.
15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.
16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

In this passage we have 3 mentions of Jesus "coming back" to earth.

But, does it refer to a pretribulational rapture, where Jesus glorifies all believers and then takes them to heaven?

No, it doesn't. In the OT, there are only two mentions of the Messiah's advents "comings". The first one was as a baby and the suffering servant. The second advent will be as King of kings and Lord of lords, to reign the nations with a rod of iron.

Some will argue that Jesus came back to earth to meet Paul on the road to Damascus, and other such sightings, etc.

However, since the OT prophesied about just TWO advents, and we KNOW that Jesus WILL return at the Second Advent, 1 Thess 4:14-17 describes His Second Advent, and not a pretribulational visit to earth.

Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

Here, Paul states that there will be TWO resurrections; one for the saved and one for the unsaved.

1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

This verse very clearly says that the single resurrection of the saved (those who belong to Him) will occur "when He comes", which is the Second Advent, prophesied in the OT.

Paul stated he believes certain things to take place. He did not say he knows for certain.
I've noticed that Paul also stated in one of his letters that he sees through a dark glass and only sees parts. He admitted he does not see the whole picture.
I would also like to say that Jesus waited till about all the apostles were dead and that John was very old when he recieved the revelation of Jesus christ. So if you notice the apostle Paul stating he believes something but does not correspond to revelation, it is because Paul simply did not know. That truth was not given to him to teach.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Paul stated he believes certain things to take place. He did not say he knows for certain.

Correct. Among those certain things that will take place, he didn't include anything about Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven afterward.

I've noticed that Paul also stated in one of his letters that he sees through a dark glass and only sees parts. He admitted he does not see the whole picture.

No one does.

I would also like to say that Jesus waited till about all the apostles were dead and that John was very old when he recieved the revelation of Jesus christ. So if you notice the apostle Paul stating he believes something but does not correspond to revelation, it is because Paul simply did not know. That truth was not given to him to teach.

Not sure what your point is here.

Is it that Jesus just didn't tell any of the writers of the NT that He would take glorified believers to heaven? Because there are no such verses in the Bible.

If that is true, then where do the pretribbers get their information, since none of the writers of Scripture mentioned such a trip?

My point is simple: if there will be a trip to heaven in a glorified body, which is before the tribulation, then why aren't there any verses that show this, among all the resurrection verses there are?

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Correct. Among those certain things that will take place, he didn't include anything about Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven afterward.


No one does.


Not sure what your point is here.

Is it that Jesus just didn't tell any of the writers of the NT that He would take glorified believers to heaven? Because there are no such verses in the Bible.

If that is true, then where do the pretribbers get their information, since none of the writers of Scripture mentioned such a trip?

My point is simple: if there will be a trip to heaven in a glorified body, which is before the tribulation, then why aren't there any verses that show this, among all the resurrection verses there are?

I didn't say anything about anyone flying up into the sky. What I mean is Paul probably didn't know everything given to John in Revelation.
For instance, Paul may not have known about the second resurection that would take place 1000 years after the first. It's obvious he knew about the coming of the Lord and of the resurection that would take place at that time. He may not have understood who all would take part in that resurection or who would not.
But I don't believe in anyone ascending into heaven where God and Christ are. I do believe some will be taken up in a cloud in Revelation but I don't see that as a good thing. Many people were taken up in a cloud in Hiroshima. Like I said, not a good thing.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I didn't say anything about anyone flying up into the sky. What I mean is Paul probably didn't know everything given to John in Revelation.

I am wondering if you believe there will be such a trip.

For instance, Paul may not have known about the second resurection that would take place 1000 years after the first.

Actually, Paul was aware of the two resurrections.

Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

iow, one each. One for the saved, and one for the unsaved. They will occur 1,000 years apart. Whether he knew that or not, I don't know.

It's obvious he knew about the coming of the Lord and of the resurection that would take place at that time. He may not have understood who all would take part in that resurection or who would not.

It shows in Act 24:15 that he did.

But I don't believe in anyone ascending into heaven where God and Christ are. I do believe some will be taken up in a cloud in Revelation but I don't see that as a good thing. Many people were taken up in a cloud in Hiroshima. Like I said, not a good thing.

Definitely not.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

I do believe strongly that the Holy Spirit is Lord and God. He is One Lord God with the Father and the Son as the historic Church taught.

On the thread topic, though, I agree with those who say the Rapture is Post-Tribulation, and in fact Post-Resurrection, and not Pre-Tribulation. The verse in 1 Thessalonians clearly says we who are alive will not precede those who have fallen asleep. They will rise first, and only then will the Rapture take place, with the Loud Trumpet, on the Last Day, at the Second Coming, and it's not a "secret rapture".

1 Thess 4:15 "According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words."

 

[Shilohsfoal]

I am wondering if you believe there will be such a trip.


Actually, Paul was aware of the two resurrections.

Acts 24:15 - and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

iow, one each. One for the saved, and one for the unsaved. They will occur 1,000 years apart. Whether he knew that or not, I don't know.


It shows in Act 24:15 that he did.


Definitely not.

Actually, if we read of the resurection of Daniels people in Daniel 12, we find those who are resurrected at that time are both righteous and those who appear to be wicked. They are both raised at the same time. Not 1000 years apart.

The resurection which takes place 1000 years after Daniels people are of a different people.
All of Daniels people who's names are written are raised at the same time. Those who have done good and those who have done bad.

https://biblehub.com/daniel/12-2.htm