Do you believe in (OSAS) Once Saved, Always Saved?

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Why would I waste my time wading through pages of posts?

You can hover your cursor over a person's avatar, and click on that person's number of posts, which will then open a page to their post stream. The last 200 posts are linked in reverse order, showing also the thread titles where each post can be found. Or the search function can be used for a specific word in conjunction with a particular user name. Just an FYI for anyone who may not know

Has anyone ever told you that you are a genius?

 

[BillG]

FreeGrace2 said:
Why would I waste my time wading through pages of posts?

Has anyone ever told you that you are a genius?

That's our @Magenta

 

[FreeGrace2]

This quote by you is Calvinistic and you don’t even know it apparently. Funny how destructive heresies creep into the hearts and minds of people.

If a calvinist wants to agree with me, that's ok with me.

This quote by you is a nod to unconditional election.

Ah, election. Do you know the purpose of election is for?

“You have no idea what you are saying. Jesus Christ died for the sins of everyone. All of them, in fact. And that is grace. So don't push your false doctrine that God's grace is conditional.”

Jesus didn’t die for the sins of everyone and you won’t find a verse that says that.

You are still not getting it right.

John 1:29 Jesus is the Savior of the world
John 4:42 Jesus is the Savior of the world
2 Cor 5:14,15 in each verse it says that Christ died for all.
2 Cor 5:19 says God reconciled the WORLD to Himself in Christ
1 Tim 2:3-6 God wants all men to be saved, Christ gave Himself as a ransom for all
1 Tim 4:10 Savior of the world
Heb 2:9 Christ tasted death for everyone
Titus 2:11 God's grace that brings salvation is offered to everyone
1 John 2:2 Christ atoned for the sins of the whole world

Those who will argue that "all" doesn't always mean everyone are just trying to avoid the hard truth. When "all" doesn't mean everyone, there will be enough text to indicate how the word is limited.

ONLY WHEN the Greek word "pas" is without further description or limitations it DOES mean everyone.

I suggest you study quite a bit harder, seeing how many verses you don't seem to be aware of.

More specifically, Jesus is an atoning sacrifice available for all of the sins of everyone and this sacrifice and atonement can be accessed exclusively through faith.

Huh??! You just said above: "Jesus didn’t die for the sins of everyone and you won’t find a verse that says that."

Why are you flip-flopping??

1 John 2:2
2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Get your act together before you come to this site preaching false doctrines.

Why don't you get your own act together before you make such false claims.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I’m honest but I don’t respect you. If you want answers that’s a luxury you aren’t entitled to. Go find it yourself in my comments.

Yep. Just what I thought and expressed. You aren't even interested in proving your claim. If you were, you'd have answered the simple question already.

All you do is punt with your cop-out excuses. And you call yourself "honest". Yeah, sure you are.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Why would I waste my time wading through pages of posts?

Has anyone ever told you that you are a genius?

That's our @Magenta

Yes, Sir!!

 

[BillG]

Jesus didn’t die for the sins of everyone and you won’t find a verse that says that. More specifically, Jesus is an atoning sacrifice available for all of the sins of everyone and this sacrifice and atonement can be accessed exclusively through faith.

Hi @Runningman

I am struggling to understand what you are saying here.

Jesus didn't die for the sins of everyone yet you say his sacrifice is for all of the sins of everyone.

If Jesus did not die for the sins of everyone then who did he die for?

 

[Magenta]

Has anyone ever told you that you are a genius?

I have been called a few things, I'm sure...

That's our @Magenta

Thank you both for your kindness, via these votes of confidence
in the intelligence God blessed me with, as it wanes with age

I thank God often for being so gracious toward me, in allowing
me to survive the rebellion, stupidity and insanity of my youth

 

[Runningman]

Hi @Runningman

I am struggling to understand what you are saying here.

Jesus didn't die for the sins of everyone yet you say his sacrifice is for all of the sins of everyone.

If Jesus did not die for the sins of everyone then who did he die for?

Hi @BillG what I am trying to say is that the benefits of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus are accessed through faith. Those without faith can’t access the benefits of Christ’s sacrifice so it can’t be said that Jesus died for those who don’t believe.

Ipso facto, Christ didn’t die for everyone. The Bible teaches that God gave His son so IF anyone believes in Him they will not perish, but rather have eternal life. The Bible does not say “Christ died for everyone” or otherwise faith wouldn’t be required. That’s my perspective, I guess you’re free to disagree still if you prefer.

What effect does Christ’s sacrifice have on those who never believe in it?

 

[Runningman]

If a calvinist wants to agree with me, that's ok with me.


Ah, election. Do you know the purpose of election is for?


You are still not getting it right.

John 1:29 Jesus is the Savior of the world
John 4:42 Jesus is the Savior of the world
2 Cor 5:14,15 in each verse it says that Christ died for all.
2 Cor 5:19 says God reconciled the WORLD to Himself in Christ
1 Tim 2:3-6 God wants all men to be saved, Christ gave Himself as a ransom for all
1 Tim 4:10 Savior of the world
Heb 2:9 Christ tasted death for everyone
Titus 2:11 God's grace that brings salvation is offered to everyone
1 John 2:2 Christ atoned for the sins of the whole world

Those who will argue that "all" doesn't always mean everyone are just trying to avoid the hard truth. When "all" doesn't mean everyone, there will be enough text to indicate how the word is limited.

ONLY WHEN the Greek word "pas" is without further description or limitations it DOES mean everyone.

I suggest you study quite a bit harder, seeing how many verses you don't seem to be aware of.


Huh??! You just said above: "Jesus didn’t die for the sins of everyone and you won’t find a verse that says that."

Why are you flip-flopping??


Why don't you get your own act together before you make such false claims.

You support one of the pillars of Calvinism and don’t even realize it; that’s my point. I don’t care what you believe, but as long as you are aware now your credibility is nonexistent we’re done here.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

If Jesus did not die for the sins of everyone then who did he die for?

Many. Not all. Many. It's the new covenant, see Dan. 9:27 and Matt. 26:28. Those who believe in him are cleansed of their sins, those who don't will be held accountable for all of their sins at the white throne judgement.

 

[Runningman]

Many. Not all. Many. It's the new covenant, see Dan. 9:27 and Matt. 26:28. Those who believe in him are cleansed of their sins, those who don't will be held accountable for all of their sins at the white throne judgement.

Yes totally agree with that. This subject alone is worthy of its own thread but I don’t feel like opening one about it. I hope someone will though! Apparently people here are thinking Christ’s sacrifice applies to everyone.

In a sense, it can be said that Christ died for everyone insofar that His death is suitable to atone for the sins of every sinner, but in another sense the benefits of Christ’s sacrifice can only be accessed through faith.

The Bible is clear that more people will not be saved from the second death in the lake of fire than there are those who will be saved.

So you’re scripture about the blood of Christ being shed for “many” is most accurate and the best way to understand the scope of His sacrifice.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Yes totally agree with that. This subject alone is worthy of its own thread but I don’t feel like opening one about it. I hope someone will though! Apparently people here are thinking Christ’s sacrifice applies to everyone.

In a sense, it can be said that Christ died for everyone insofar that His death is suitable to atone for the sins of every sinner, but in another sense the benefits of Christ’s sacrifice can only be accessed through faith.

The Bible is clear that more people will not be saved from the second death in the lake of fire than there are those who will be saved.

So you’re scripture about the blood of Christ being shed for “many” is most accurate and the best way to understand the scope of His sacrifice.

Thank you. BTW to fully understand the new covenant, the intention and purpose are detailed in Jeremiah 31:31-34 -

"Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."

 

[VARob]

In a sense, it can be said that Christ died for everyone insofar that His death is suitable to atone for the sins of every sinner, but in another sense the benefits of Christ’s sacrifice can only be accessed through faith.

To me, that sense is the true sense. Jesus died for everyone. Salvation is available to anyone. You’re right in that the benefits are accessed by faith, and it’s obvious that not everyone believes. But they could.

If you’re thinking that Christ did not die for everyone in the Calvinist “limited atonement“ sense, I completely disagree.

 

[Magenta]

Thank you. BTW to fully understand the new covenant, the intention and purpose are detailed in Jeremiah 31:31-34 -

"Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."

Deuteronomy 30:6

 

[FreeGrace2]

You support one of the pillars of Calvinism and don’t even realize it

Sorry you're not able to understand my posts. I JUST acknowledged that they believe in eternal security like I do. Proves nothing.

that’s my point. I don’t care what you believe, but as long as you are aware now your credibility is nonexistent we’re done here.

I don't really care what your opinion is. I'm not posting for your benefit, but rather for those who read these threads for information.

Everyone can compare what you claim and try to prove and what I believe and prove.

That's all either of us can do.

 

[FreeGrace2]

BillG said:
If Jesus did not die for the sins of everyone then who did he die for?

Many. Not all.

When the Bible uses "many" in regard to who Jesus died for, the word means "masses". Not less than everyone. So, in fact, it does mean everyone, as opposed to just some.

It's the new covenant, see Dan. 9:27 and Matt. 26:28. Those who believe in him are cleansed of their sins, those who don't will be held accountable for all of their sins at the white throne judgement.

This is a fallacy. Jesus Christ died for everyone's sins. 2 Cor 5:19 says that God was reconciling the WORLD in Him. But that doesn't save anyone. It does remove the sin barrier, which means anyone and everyone can be saved.

1 Tim 2:3-6 plainly says that God wants everyone to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth. That ain't calvinism.

And I ain't no Arminian either. Just to be clear.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

BillG said:
If Jesus did not die for the sins of everyone then who did he die for?

When the Bible uses "many" in regard to who Jesus died for, the word means "masses". Not less than everyone. So, in fact, it does mean everyone, as opposed to just some.


This is a fallacy. Jesus Christ died for everyone's sins. 2 Cor 5:19 says that God was reconciling the WORLD in Him. But that doesn't save anyone. It does remove the sin barrier, which means anyone and everyone can be saved.

1 Tim 2:3-6 plainly says that God wants everyone to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth. That ain't calvinism.

And I ain't no Arminian either. Just to be clear.

And you're promoting universalism that "everyone" eventually goes to heaven? That's Satan's false religion. "Many" means "many", in Jeremiah 31:31 the new covenant was made with the Israelites. Everyone CAN come to Jesus, but not everyone WILL. The fallacy is yours.

 

[Chester]

FreeGrace2 said:
Depends on whether they EVER believed. Because the Bible is clear that condemnation is for those who 'have not believed'.

Once a person believes, according to John 5:24 with 10:28, they shall NEVER PERISH.

If a person dies who "has not believed", then they CANNOT go to heaven. Because they "have not believed".

OK, it is clear to me that you have a really difficult time with comprehension. Not only do you not grasp my posts, you don't believe what John 3:18, 2 Thess 2:12, John 5:24 and John 10:28 say plainly.


That is your choice. But you've been shown the truth from Scripture.


So you simply reject the clear teaching that the gift of eternal life is given WHEN a person believes and is saved and on THAT basis, will never perish. Which Jesus taught clearly.

Well, that's your business. I am privileged to explain the truth to those who have open eyes and ears.

So after all that you wrote, I ask again:

Do you believe that a person can die not believing in Jesus Christ, and can still get to heaven?

I answer that question with an unequivocable NO.

John 3:36: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

 

[FreeGrace2]

And you're promoting universalism that "everyone" eventually goes to heaven?

No, no no. Christ dying for everyone does NOT save anyone. What you calvinists seem unable to grasp is that His death removed the sin barrier so that humans CAN be saved.

And how in the world do you explain 1 Tim 2:3-6?
3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior,
4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

That's Satan's false religion.

Says you. The Bible is crystal clear that Jesus Christ died for everyone, so that everyone can be saved.

1 Cor 1:21 tells us what pleases God. A verse that Calvinists have problems with.

For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

What it doesn't say is "God is pleased to save those He elected".

 

[FreeGrace2]

So after all that you wrote, I ask again:

Do you believe that a person can die not believing in Jesus Christ, and can still get to heaven?

I clarified your very vague question. It all depends upon whether that person EVER believed in Jesus.

I answer that question with an unequivocable NO.

John 3:36: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

This verse refers to those who NEVER believed.

From your attitude and posts, it seems rather clear that you don't believe either John 3:18 or 2 Thess 2:12.

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Both verses contain "have not believed". That means NEVER believed.

So, once belief, and possession of eternal life, Jesus said, and quite plainly, "they shall never perish".

But again, it seems from your attitude and posts, that you don't believe Him either.

What's up with that?

From the MOMENT of saving faith and reception of eternal life, the believer shall never perish. Pure truth.