Do you believe in (OSAS) Once Saved, Always Saved?

[FreeGrace2]

That portion of the Scripture, Peter encouraged believers to endure suffering and not be afraid of persecution, he was echoing what Jesus taught in Matt. 5:11-12. How does that refure the lordship of Christ?

Making Christ Lord doesn't save. Peter made that clear by commanding that to believers.

Believers are commanded to be faithful, obedient for blessings and eternal reward, and to miss discipline.

 

[Runningman]

Your question shows that you believe that one's LIFESTYLE is part of getting saved. Yet, the Bible does NOT teach that.

God's love is unconditional, period. It's not based on one's lifestyle.


Aren't you aware of King David? He committed rape and murder to cover his rotten deed. Did he lose salvation?


We are saved by grace THROUGH faith. If you don't want to believe that, that's your choice.

If you want to include one's LIFESTYLE how to get saved, you are on your own. The Bible does NOT teach that.


Show me.

God's will is found in John 6:40.

on some points I agree but overall you’re a terribly confused person. You seem to think you can kill and rape people and you have God’s favor and you didn’t exactly say Christian’s can’t commit genocide either. Somehow I am not surprised by you. Your spirit is filled with strife, you seek to sow discord and division. That’s apparent. No amount of chat or debate will help you. You need To appeal to Gods mercy and help at this point I believe.

It was one thing to litter my threads with your false doctrines regarding water baptism, but now I see you have taken it upon yourself to follow me to this thread too. Anyway, if you want to make this forum a debate forum I can’t stop you, but God’s word will always have the final say. You need to make peace with that.

Now read this:

You stand in God's grace if you access it by faith.

Romans 5:1,2
1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2By whom also we have access by faith into this gracewherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Paul takes it a step further and says that anything not of faith is a sin.

Romans 14:23
23And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever isnot of faith is sin.

So what does faith really mean? What does it mean to walk by faith?

1 John 1:7,8
7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

God's grace is conditional and requires walking in faith, in obedience. If we are not even trying to not sin anymore then we have effectually committed apostasy. Yes God requires everything from our corrupt thoughts and corrupt behaviors to be brought under submission to Him. It's not immediate, it's not instant, but God requires our sincere and genuine efforts to live like Jesus lived.

Christians are purchased property, their lives are not their own, they must be selfless and not sin.

 

[BroTan]

You stand in God's grace if you access it by faith.

Romans 5:1,2
1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Paul takes it a step further and says that anything not of faith is a sin.

Romans 14:23
23And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

So what does faith really mean? What does it mean to walk by faith?

1 John 1:7,8
7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

God's grace is conditional and requires walking in faith, in obedience. If we are not even trying to not sin anymore then we have effectually committed apostasy. Yes God requires everything from our corrupt thoughts and corrupt behaviors to be brought under submission to Him. It's not immediate, it's not instant, but God requires our sincere and genuine efforts to live like Jesus lived.

Christians are purchased property, their lives are not their own, they must be selfless and not sin.

I agree with that, but let's add in the law (Commandments) because it's written in 1 John 2: 7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. In, (Is. 42:21) we find another prophecy concerning Christ and the law. It reads, (v.21) The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he (Jesus) will magnify the law, and make it honourable. When you magnify something you enlarge it and bring it out more of its detail and richness. Jesus revealed the fulfillment of this prophecy when he explained, (Mat.5:27-28) (v.27) Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: (v.28) But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. By magnifying the law and making it honorable, the spiritual intent of the law is now emphasized which goes far beyond the mere the physical intent. God has raised His standards, not lowered them!

 

[BroTan]

Except sin existed in heaven before it came into Eden.

And God knew the rule first. Where thete is no law sin is not imputed. God estaished his law in Eden first. And to two people who had no idea how to obey.

Understand what you just said, "Except sin existed in heaven before it came into Eden." That means God had laws in heaven. Because Paul says in Roman 6: 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Those angels even Satan who sin in heaven will see death, which is the lake of fire.

 

[Chester]

Depends on whether they EVER believed. Because the Bible is clear that condemnation is for those who 'have not believed'.

Once a person believes, according to John 5:24 with 10:28, they shall NEVER PERISH.

If a person dies who "has not believed", then they CANNOT go to heaven. Because they "have not believed".

So you do believe then that a person can die not believing in Jesus and can still get to heaven.

I do not believe that way. I think Scripture teaches that those that are believing in Jesus are saved and those that are not believing in Jesus are not saved.

 

[BeeThePeace]

I agree with that, but let's add in the law (Commandments) because it's written in 1 John 2: 7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. In, (Is. 42:21) we find another prophecy concerning Christ and the law. It reads, (v.21) The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he (Jesus) will magnify the law, and make it honourable. When you magnify something you enlarge it and bring it out more of its detail and richness. Jesus revealed the fulfillment of this prophecy when he explained, (Mat.5:27-28) (v.27) Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: (v.28) But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. By magnifying the law and making it honorable, the spiritual intent of the law is now emphasized which goes far beyond the mere the physical intent. God has raised His standards, not lowered them!

He writes his law on our hearts. No longer does the law get satisfied for non-compliance to it by the death of the offender.

 

[FreeGrace2]

on some points I agree but overall you’re a terribly confused person.

You have demonstrated how confused you are with the Bible and with my posts.

You seem to think you can kill and rape people and you have God’s favor and you didn’t exactly say Christian’s can’t commit genocide either.

And here is a glaring example of that. I never thought or said that a believer can kill and rape and "have God's favor". I have been very consistent about God's painful discipline toward such believers. King David is one example. For his sin of rape/murder he paid a very high price.

Read Psa 38 to see what God's divine discipline looks like. Then read Psa 51 to see how David responded to God's discipline.

Somehow I am not surprised by you. Your spirit is filled with strife, you seek to sow discord and division.

This is just hot air. You're the one who got nasty when a subject came up that we disagreed on. I've been straightforward in my posts. I am direct and blunt. But disagreeing doesn't "sow discord/division" as you claim. This is what Paul told Titus to do:
1-
10 For there are many rebellious people, full of meaningless talk and deception, especially those of the circumcision group.
11 They must be silenced, because they are disrupting whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach—and that for the sake of dishonest gain.
12 One of Crete’s own prophets has said it: “Cretans are always liars, evil brutes, lazy gluttons.”
13 This saying is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith

So go ahead and claim that Paul was "sowing discord/division" while you're at it.

I've proven my view with clear Scripture, over and over. You've failed to do that.

It was one thing to litter my threads with your false doctrines regarding water baptism, but now I see you have taken it upon yourself to follow me to this thread too.

Oh, please get over yourself. I wasn't following you. I was following the thread for its content.

Anyway, if you want to make this forum a debate forum I can’t stop you, but God’s word will always have the final say. You need to make peace with that.

I have absolute peace that God has the final say.

Now read this:

You stand in God's grace if you access it by faith.

Romans 5:1,2
1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2By whom also we have access by faith into this gracewherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Paul takes it a step further and says that anything not of faith is a sin.

Romans 14:23
23And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever isnot of faith is sin.

So what does faith really mean? What does it mean to walk by faith?

It means to walk IN fellowship with the Lord through confession of sin, and being filled with the Spirit in order to produce the fruit of the Spirit.

1 John 1:7,8
7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

You forgot v.6, 9 and 10. You need to read them.

God's grace is conditional and requires walking in faith, in obedience.

You have no idea what you are saying. Jesus Christ died for the sins of everyone. All of them, in fact. And that is grace. So don't push your false doctrine that God's grace is conditional.

If we are not even trying to not sin anymore then we have effectually committed apostasy.

You are preaching to the choir.

Yes God requires everything from our corrupt thoughts and corrupt behaviors to be brought under submission to Him.[/UOTE]
How do you do that? And provide verses that say what you claim.

It's not immediate, it's not instant, but God requires our sincere and genuine efforts to live like Jesus lived.

And what does God require them FOR? Do you know? And do you have verses that back up your claim here?

Christians are purchased property, their lives are not their own, they must be selfless and not sin.

Do you never sin?

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Depends on whether they EVER believed. Because the Bible is clear that condemnation is for those who 'have not believed'.

Once a person believes, according to John 5:24 with 10:28, they shall NEVER PERISH.

If a person dies who "has not believed", then they CANNOT go to heaven. Because they "have not believed".

So you do believe then that a person can die not believing in Jesus and can still get to heaven.

OK, it is clear to me that you have a really difficult time with comprehension. Not only do you not grasp my posts, you don't believe what John 3:18, 2 Thess 2:12, John 5:24 and John 10:28 say plainly.

I do not believe that way.

That is your choice. But you've been shown the truth from Scripture.

I think Scripture teaches that those that are believing in Jesus are saved and those that are not believing in Jesus are not saved.

So you simply reject the clear teaching that the gift of eternal life is given WHEN a person believes and is saved and on THAT basis, will never perish. Which Jesus taught clearly.

Well, that's your business. I am privileged to explain the truth to those who have open eyes and ears.

 

[FreeGrace2]

on some points I agree but overall you’re a terribly confused person.

One more thing.

Why haven't you answered my question about the believers who were never baptized when Jesus comes and resurrects believers?

You claim water baptism is required for resurrection. That begs the question of what happens to the non-baptized at the resurrection?

Do you know? And do you have any verses that support your answer?

 

[Runningman]

One more thing.

Why haven't you answered my question about the believers who were never baptized when Jesus comes and resurrects believers?

You claim water baptism is required for resurrection. That begs the question of what happens to the non-baptized at the resurrection?

Do you know? And do you have any verses that support your answer?

I've already answered that question. When I first answered it I think you rejected it or didn't notice it. Now that was dozens of comments ago. You're free to look through my comment history and find it.

 

[Runningman]

You have demonstrated how confused you are with the Bible and with my posts.


And here is a glaring example of that. I never thought or said that a believer can kill and rape and "have God's favor". I have been very consistent about God's painful discipline toward such believers. King David is one example. For his sin of rape/murder he paid a very high price.

Read Psa 38 to see what God's divine discipline looks like. Then read Psa 51 to see how David responded to God's discipline.


This is just hot air. You're the one who got nasty when a subject came up that we disagreed on. I've been straightforward in my posts. I am direct and blunt. But disagreeing doesn't "sow discord/division" as you claim. This is what Paul told Titus to do:
1-
10 For there are many rebellious people, full of meaningless talk and deception, especially those of the circumcision group.
11 They must be silenced, because they are disrupting whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach—and that for the sake of dishonest gain.
12 One of Crete’s own prophets has said it: “Cretans are always liars, evil brutes, lazy gluttons.”
13 This saying is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith

So go ahead and claim that Paul was "sowing discord/division" while you're at it.

I've proven my view with clear Scripture, over and over. You've failed to do that.


Oh, please get over yourself. I wasn't following you. I was following the thread for its content.


I have absolute peace that God has the final say.


It means to walk IN fellowship with the Lord through confession of sin, and being filled with the Spirit in order to produce the fruit of the Spirit.


You forgot v.6, 9 and 10. You need to read them.


You have no idea what you are saying. Jesus Christ died for the sins of everyone. All of them, in fact. And that is grace. So don't push your false doctrine that God's grace is conditional.


You are preaching to the choir.

Ahhh... this is all starting to make sense and I should have suspected this sooner. You're a Calvinist aren't you?

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
One more thing.

Why haven't you answered my question about the believers who were never baptized when Jesus comes and resurrects believers?

You claim water baptism is required for resurrection. That begs the question of what happens to the non-baptized at the resurrection?

Do you know? And do you have any verses that support your answer?

I've already answered that question. When I first answered it I think you rejected it or didn't notice it. Now that was dozens of comments ago. You're free to look through my comment history and find it.

Actually, this is the FIRST time you have even acknowledged my question.

It seems you don't really have an answer. Honest and respectful people would gladly answer again. You are just punting, again.

Why would I waste my time wading through pages of posts? I've never given this kind of cop-out answer to anyone. I am always glad to repeat myself for the benefit of the one asking.

But, such is life.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Ahhh... this is all starting to make sense and I should have suspected this sooner. You're a Calvinist aren't you?

It seems you haven't been getting anything right.

No, I'm NOT a Calvinist. I absolutely do believe the Bible teaches eternal security from the first MOMENT of faith in Christ. But man HAS free will, Christ died for everyone, and not all believers persevere in the faith.

That is neither Calvinistic nor Arminian.

btw, why are you now "following" me? You're nothing but hostile to me and my views.

What's up with that?

 

[Magenta]

He wasn't given that choice. Jesus had shown him where his own sin really was.

The rich young ruler: in his time, under the law, to break even one was to break the whole of it.

 

[Magenta]

Why would I waste my time wading through pages of posts?

You can hover your cursor over a person's avatar, and click on that person's number of posts, which will then open a page to their post stream. The last 200 posts are linked in reverse order, showing also the thread titles where each post can be found. Or the search function can be used for a specific word in conjunction with a particular user name. Just an FYI for anyone who may not know

 

[Snacks]

It's not with a condescending attitude I denounce OSAS as a doctrine of devils - it's with strong desire to help people escape satanic lies intended to lead to eternal death those who think they've got eternal life.

I apologize for misunderstanding your heart and motives. I appreciate your heartfelt concerns and your looking out for others. I see things differently regarding OSAS and if you would like to correspond I will always be respectful to you. Again, I apologize for my indiscretion.

 

[Runningman]

It seems you haven't been getting anything right.

No, I'm NOT a Calvinist. I absolutely do believe the Bible teaches eternal security from the first MOMENT of faith in Christ. But man HAS free will, Christ died for everyone, and not all believers persevere in the faith.

That is neither Calvinistic nor Arminian.

btw, why are you now "following" me? You're nothing but hostile to me and my views.

What's up with that?

This quote by you is Calvinistic and you don’t even know it apparently. Funny how destructive heresies creep into the hearts and minds of people.

This quote by you is a nod to unconditional election.

“You have no idea what you are saying. Jesus Christ died for the sins of everyone. All of them, in fact. And that is grace. So don't push your false doctrine that God's grace is conditional.”

Jesus didn’t die for the sins of everyone and you won’t find a verse that says that. More specifically, Jesus is an atoning sacrifice available for all of the sins of everyone and this sacrifice and atonement can be accessed exclusively through faith.

1 John 2:2
2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Get your act together before you come to this site preaching false doctrines.

 

[Runningman]

FreeGrace2 said:
One more thing.

Why haven't you answered my question about the believers who were never baptized when Jesus comes and resurrects believers?

You claim water baptism is required for resurrection. That begs the question of what happens to the non-baptized at the resurrection?

Do you know? And do you have any verses that support your answer?

Actually, this is the FIRST time you have even acknowledged my question.

It seems you don't really have an answer. Honest and respectful people would gladly answer again. You are just punting, again.

Why would I waste my time wading through pages of posts? I've never given this kind of cop-out answer to anyone. I am always glad to repeat myself for the benefit of the one asking.

But, such is life.

I’m honest but I don’t respect you. If you want answers that’s a luxury you aren’t entitled to. Go find it yourself in my comments.

 

[VARob]

Making Christ Lord doesn't save

Right. A person must also believe that God raised him from the dead.

Rom. 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

 

[peldom10]

Ahhh... this is all starting to make sense and I should have suspected this sooner. You're a Calvinist aren't you?

Reminder...he will disagree but never with scriptures...if so .......then scriptures totally unrelated.
A troll?; probably.
New age religion leftist; most likely. They oppose...but with no Bible support. They disagree and want proof...when submitted they avoid, ignore or reject with no reason.

In the mean time the true Christian wanting to present the correct version of scriptures are tied up without progress for the newbie, loyal learner, etc.
Not worth the time.