Ministry Of Deliverance

[Polar]

For my benefit and others, could you please list those scripture references that state specifically our authority, in the name of Jesus, to deal with a demonic attack. Thanks.

I will get back to you on that Steve. If not today, but sometime. Happy to do that.

This is a strawman argument. No one is saying we should abandon prayer because we refuse to speak to the devil directly.

I'm not making any argument either way. No strawman, no tin man and no fearful lion. I am really speaking outside of this forum, my own research, the research of others, actual experience and not referring to whatever has been said by anyone else. I am simply addressing the op and not anyone specific.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

No. (sorry I am not meaning to be abrupt, just straightforward). English lacks the nuances in Pre-Christian Greece and it has some info in it regarding the usage of the word possession in ages past.

a word in Greek that actually MEANS possession, you will not find it. Translations using possession in the sense of 'to own', are just simply wrong because the Bible is not saying that.

That is a translation of some but ultimately it comes down to context on what was going on to understand what English word best fits the Greek word. This is why you see when a person needed a exorcist the human often had no control once the demon took over.

We are discussing just one word here. It is common knowledge that the word to possess is not the way it is expressed in scripture.

This isn't common knowledge most anyone you speak to will speak of the scriptures as possession.

We can ask the same question of the actual interpreters who obviously do not all agree.

Agree. So context is key.

Therefore, you gain understanding from the Bible itself and we even see instances where God sends an evil spirit or gives the devil permission.

Key sentence is God sends. You ain't casting out something God sends or allows.

The fact that the word devil is used so often when there is but one devil, many demons, but just one devil, illustrates the fact that the original has not been always as well understood as some take for granted that it has been well translated. We know there are quite a few errors in the KJ and we also know that some modern translations lack accuracy to the point they changed what the original meant.

Yes but what are those errors and what in modern translations have changed? Each Bible used certain families of manuscripts. So it helps to know the translation of different Bibles but also the interlinear translation.

The devil does not go about harassing everyone personally. Now according to scripture, he did so with Jesus but I hope we can understand why that might be. You might also know that the actual origin of demons is not directly stated in scripture but people assume they are all fallen angels. Well how could that be, when many are held in chains at the moment? Some believe they are the spirits of a pre-Adamic race and I am not saying that, but only presenting different views by people who have studied the topic and do not see angels as demons. Frankly, I do believe the original creation was in chaos (as per Genesis) and God set about creating as we understand Him to have done. But I guess I'm getting off course here.

Satan is after every human soul. Also we know not all fallen angels are in chains because some did fall to the Earth and mate with female women.

I'm not sure he and I would agree on all that he states.



We are given general and not specific views on the spiritual darkness. In order to gain a better understanding, you have to go through scripture and see where references are made to spiritual interference and apply it to how that might work out in the time in which we live.I do not see how anyone can say we have specific instructions. They are just not there.

Agree.

The best understanding we get seems to be how Jesus dealt with demons. He did not entertain them and give them room to act up. If I am correct, there is only one case where he asked the legion what it's name was and he sent them into a herd of pigs. I would rebuke any demon in Jesus name and if I felt I should, then send it to where Jesus directs it to go. They are all liars and I do not hold to the method of asking for a name or when it got in or whatever (as so many 'ministers' seem to do). People will literally spend hours entertaining the thing instead of just kicking it out or away. And I am certainly no expert, but I do not see that pattern in scripture.

Agree.

We are not discussing eschatology here. It is really not that complicated if one understands the basics of how the words in question are being used in scripture.

The word being questioned makes it complicated when experts disagree.

If you apply possession to every instance, then it becomes clear as to why many Christians do not believe demons can afflict the way they actually can and do, believers.

This is interpretation. I do not see in scripture the possession of believers. Unbelievers, yes. I see demonic attacks to Christians but not possession or how Jake describes influince which still sounds like possession. You don't need chains broken if your only influenced.

I don't have time nor the inclination to write a book here, but if I did, that could be cleared up pretty quickly by the proper use of that one word.

I agree.

Then you would be saying that every single thing we do should be in there and that totally leaves out personal guidance by the Holy Spirit.

No it doesn't. The Holy Spirit operates in God's Word. It will not contradict or add anything that isn't for all to judge using the Word.

It's not a question of whether or not you believe you are allowed to think beyond the exact words of scripture, but just common sense IMO.

This is opinion, what's common sense to you may be common sense to me.

Can you tell me what schemes have been used against me? or your neighbor down the road? We have illustrations, as I already said above, but direct application in that we need understanding and direction from the Holy Spirit.

In order to take a stand, we must first know what the tactics and schemes of Satan are and what strategies he uses. When Satan was cast out of Heaven during the great rebellion (Rev 12:7-12), a third of the angelic hosts followed Satan (Rev 12:4) but in 2 Peter we see that these fallen angels are being held by chains in Hell until judgement day (2 Peter 2:4). So, the question becomes then what is a demon and where do demons come from? Theologically, no one is certain on the origin of demons, but the Bible is clear that they exist and are sided with Satan (1 Tim 4:1, James 2:19, Matt 12:45).
Satan and his demon army are the occupying force in the world. The whole world lies in the power of the evil one (1 John 5:19). This world currently is in a state of fallen glory and the worldly kingdom is ruled by Satan and his army (Matt 12:22-26).
God provides us with the counterintelligence to understand the enemy’s tactics. Here is a list below.
1. Can Disguise himself as an Angel of light (2 Cor 11:14)
2. Deceiver (Rev 12:9)
3. Steal, kills, and destroys (John 10:10)
4. Lies (John 8:44)
5. Tempts (1 Cor 7:5)
6. Opportunist (Eph 4:27)
7. Prowler (1 Peter 5:8-9)
8. Trickster (Geneses 3:1, 2 Tim 2:26)
9. Ruler (Matt 12:22-26)
10. Adversary (1 Peter 5:8)

This is a broad topic in actuality and has been studied through the centuries and not always with accuracy. Following is a post from a site I came across (not a Christian site) that has all kinds of info on it about many different things. This particular article is entitled
So-Called Possession in Pre-Christian Greece and it has some info in it regarding the usage of the word possession in ages past.

The Second Apology of Justin Martyr- 150 AD TO 157 AD

Justin Martyr AD 100 – c. AD 165 was an early Christian apologist and philosopher.


CHAPTER SEVEN:
For He was made man also, as we before said, having been conceived according to the will of God the Father, for the sake of believing men, and for the destruction of the demons. And now you can learn this from what is under your own observation. For numberless demoniacs throughout the whole world, and in your city, many of our Christian men exorcising them in the name of Jesus Christ, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, have healed and do heal, rendering helpless and driving the possessing devils out of the men, though they could not be cured by all the other exorcists, and those who used incantations and drugs.

Here we see just a century after Jesus's acension and less than a century after Revelation was written. Justin speaks as a eye witness to demon exorcisms and calls them possessing devils.

 

[Polar]

I have a much longer list and a broader understanding of the capabilities of demons. I don't see the point in posting it though as you seem determined to skirt around what I have so far said.

I am not going to answer what appears to be mostly objections on your part.

I do not go beyond scripture and I am one of the first to see and point out error when people do.

 

[Polar]

For my benefit and others, could you please list those scripture references that state specifically our authority, in the name of Jesus, to deal with a demonic attack. Thanks.

Attacks are one thing and there are always reasons for that, but I am going to assume you might actually just want to know scripture references that state our God given authority to deal with spiritual matters.

If a person has no discernment, either of their own or as a God given gift through the Holy Spirit, I would assume they will pray for such because demons are liars and you do not want to interact with them. You just want to get rid of them.

Tell you what though, rather than me spending several hours on it, I am going to post a link and a small portion from an article from the site GotQuestions. They are a cessationist site, but that does not mean they have nothing truthful to say. That way, I will not have to defend the scripture I would normally quote. The op showed an interest in 'the Ministry of Deliverance' and the first mistake there, is stating it is a ministry. The Bible does not refer to the ministry of deliverance anywhere, but does refer to the fact that ALL believers should be prepared to deal with the dark spirits. Surely we all have Bibles.

Does a believer have authority over Satan?

The believer’s authority over Satan and victory over the spiritual forces of evil depend on the power of God, the relative power of Satan, and God’s power within the believer.

First, God’s power is perfect and unlimited. He created the heavens and the earth (Genesis 1:1) and holds power over life and death. God clearly has power over Satan and in the end will cast Satan into eternal punishment in the lake of fire (Revelation 20:7–10).

Second, Satan’s power, while no match for God’s, is yet strong. Satan can tempt humans, as he did with Eve in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 3). He is sometimes given permission from God to inflict pain on people as in the case of Job (Job 1–2). He was able to tempt Jesus but was unable to cause Him to stumble or sin (Matthew 4:1–11). God warns us that Satan hunts for human victims in the way that a roaring lion prowls for his prey (1 Peter 5:8). Satan’s power is not only limited in effectiveness today, but it is also limited in time. Evil faces an ultimate defeat in the future (see Revelation 12:12 and 20:10).

This brings us to our power in relation to Satan. Believers in Jesus Christ (John 3:16; Ephesians 2:8–9) have God’s Spirit living within them. Galatians 2:20 says, “I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me.” The same power that created the universe resides within us. As a result, Satan has no true power over believers in Christ. He cannot force us to sin, he cannot possess us, and he knows that we will ultimately have the victory over him.

At the same time, Satan continues to cause problems for believers living in this fallen world. Ephesians 6:10–18 reminds us of the spiritual battle we face and the importance of walking in spiritual armor. In addition, James 4:7 tells us of our responsibility to resist Satan: “Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.”

We have no authority over Satan in ourselves. God has all authority, and He fights on our behalf. Our response to Satan’s attacks should include submitting our lives to God, living in a holy manner, praying for God’s protection, and resisting sin. When we place ourselves under God’s protection, Satan has no authority over us. He will flee. In addition, we can respond to the devil’s temptations as Jesus did. All three times Satan tempted Jesus in the wilderness, the Lord responded by quoting God’s Word (Matthew 4:1–11). If Jesus defeated temptation through Scripture, we should certainly rely on the Bible to overcome Satan’s temptation in our lives. It’s not called the “sword of the Spirit” for nothing (Ephesians 6:17).

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I have a much longer list and a broader understanding of the capabilities of demons. I don't see the point in posting it though as you seem determined to skirt around what I have so far said.

I am not going to answer what appears to be mostly objections on your part.

I do not go beyond scripture and I am one of the first to see and point out error when people do.

Does the much longer list have scripture to back them up?

Skirting around? Thought we were debating beliefs. Just because I come back with counter arguments doesn't mean I am ignoring you. I'm sharing my thoughts on your shared thoughts.

Sorry but that is how I learn. You may call them objections but every angle to a belief must be tested to see if it holds up under scrutiny.

I agree we should look at the scriptures as the foundation. Any outside source (scholar, early church father, or Jake Kail) should only be held up in light of scripture.

 

[SteveEpperson]

The same power that created the universe resides within us. As a result, Satan has no true power over believers in Christ. He cannot force us to sin, he cannot possess us, and he knows that we will ultimately have the victory over him.

I read your entire reply. Thank you for this.

However, I think you answered my question. We are NOT to address Satan or his demons directly.

 

[Polar]

I recommend two authors in particular with regards to this topic of demons. Derek Prince, 'They Shall Expel Demons' and the other is Neil Anderson, 'The Bondage Breaker' and 'Walking in the Light'.

We can and should address demonic activity in a believer's life and rebuke them and cast them out/away. Walking in the Light is a great book for all believers; scripture based and very practical.

Truths are not up for debate and it is not my place to try and convince anyone here that they are missing or not understanding the truth and ignorance of demonic devices is not protection.

Thanks. I think I have said more than enough on the subject.

 

[joecoten]

I've found "Release From The Curse," and "Basics Of Deliverance," to be excellent videos by Derek Prince. Both are on You Tube.

 

[birdie]

https://jakekail.com/deliverance-ministry/

Yeah, so the church I have been visiting seems to put a lot of attention to the power of demons and curses in the realm of breaking curses and delivering people from the influence of demons.

I personally do not see it as Biblical but I am making my heart humble for God to move in.

I addressed the curse issue in a created thread a few months ago.

But last Wednesday the church had the guest speaker Jake Kail who proclaims to be a minister of deliverance with the power of Christ.

He had a lady to speak about her testimony in the intro about her fear of death gripped her so badly that it became a deep fear and obsession. Well she visited one of Jake's ministry events, Jake prayed, spoke to her directly, she felt nauseous, leaned forward but couldn't bend back straight, and then she was set free from the oppression of fear.

So this is I believe just a modern fancy way of speaking about exorcisms.

What you thinking so far? Should I run? Stay? Am I acting in ignorance? Or should I take notice of my own discernment?

Of course, there is debate rather Christians are ever commanded to cast out demons and it is factual that demonic possession was only seen in unbelievers. As to know if someone is demon possessed, we only have the few cases in scriptures which seem to be quite easy to Jesus, the apostles or the Jewish exocists spot but not really told what as the reader what defines demon possession.

Regardless every possession was in a unbeliever.

But these ministers teach that these occur in believers and even though we are delivered in salvation we may not be fully delivered to live out all of God's promises or gifts.

Be careful what you pray for because I asked God to help me determine the truth on certain doctrines and now I am being bombarded with stuff like this. 😌

The Bible is written in parable form (Psalm 78:1-2, Mark 4:34) and if you read the Bible as a surface text you will not understand it and strange doctrines may ensue.

For example, consider what the Bible says about someone who is saved: "Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you."

If this were just surface words, it would mean those who are saved do not have any dirt or mud or such on their bodies. Somehow God's word made them as if they had taken a bath with lots of shampoo. But we can usually see that this is not what is meant by 'clean' . Clean is a parable word, a Bible word, with a deeper meaning. Rather, it means to be free from the stain of sin, washed spiritually by Christ.

Now consider that the Bible talks about a person with an unclean spirit. "For a certain woman, whose young daughter had an unclean spirit, heard of him, and came and fell at his feet:"

When the Bible talks about someone having an unclean spirit, it is again parable lingo. It means that the person is not washed free from the stain of sin. They are not forgiven. They are unsaved. You could say that anyone who is unsaved has an unclean spirit in Bible lingo. It is not like saying they are foaming at the mouth or have a Balrog or Orc living inside them. It is just Bible lingo for unsaved.

Similarly, the term demon and devil are pointing to the same unsaved condition by parable language. Remember, Judas who betrayed Jesus was said to be a devil (John 6:70) but he was walking around as a 'normal' person would. People read the term devil or demon in the Bible and they get all worked up, imagining that this is describing special ultra-heinous entities, whereas really it is describing the deplorable condition of being unsaved, and that is all.

When a person is saved, greater is he that is in him than he that is in the world. In other words, a saved person will have a spirit that relies on God, and that overcomes the unsaved spirits that exist in the world. Be careful when reading Bible verses about demons and devils, and try and remember that this is parable language, as is all of the Bible (Psalm 78:1-2, Mark 4:34)

 

[FaithMan]

Derek Prince is pretty solid, yet some of his opinions are not supported by scripture and can be errored, yet being in error doesn't make one false.

when we disagree some will say they are a false teacher only because they do not agree with one's perspective biblically. That is not the case. Just like post-trib, mid-trib, and no trib raptures. many do not agree with these yet they are not false teachers. They are non-essential for salvation and if the pre-trib doesn't happen that does not make the person unsaved because they believed it will happen and did not.

Agreed. If teaching something that is false makes one a false teacher then we would all be false teachers. However, Derek Prince fell into several serious errors. To his credit, he publicly repented of some of them and I respect that very much. His teachings about curses were way out of line though. Unfortunately, much of what he taught about curses and curses deliverance is repeated as nauseam in the church, and that is a problem because they are false.

 

[Randy4u2c]

https://jakekail.com/deliverance-ministry/

Yeah, so the church I have been visiting seems to put a lot of attention to the power of demons and curses in the realm of breaking curses and delivering people from the influence of demons.

I personally do not see it as Biblical but I am making my heart humble for God to move in.

I addressed the curse issue in a created thread a few months ago.

But last Wednesday the church had the guest speaker Jake Kail who proclaims to be a minister of deliverance with the power of Christ.

He had a lady to speak about her testimony in the intro about her fear of death gripped her so badly that it became a deep fear and obsession. Well she visited one of Jake's ministry events, Jake prayed, spoke to her directly, she felt nauseous, leaned forward but couldn't bend back straight, and then she was set free from the oppression of fear.

So this is I believe just a modern fancy way of speaking about exorcisms.

What you thinking so far? Should I run? Stay? Am I acting in ignorance? Or should I take notice of my own discernment?

Of course, there is debate rather Christians are ever commanded to cast out demons and it is factual that demonic possession was only seen in unbelievers. As to know if someone is demon possessed, we only have the few cases in scriptures which seem to be quite easy to Jesus, the apostles or the Jewish exocists spot but not really told what as the reader what defines demon possession.

Regardless every possession was in a unbeliever.

But these ministers teach that these occur in believers and even though we are delivered in salvation we may not be fully delivered to live out all of God's promises or gifts.

Be careful what you pray for because I asked God to help me determine the truth on certain doctrines and now I am being bombarded with stuff like this. 😌

It is written in Math 24 and Mark 13 that many will come in Christ's name claiming to be Christians and will deceive many with their false doctrines, signs and wonders. You should take notice of your own discernment, read God's word, pray for knowledge and wisdom and know that God gives us power over all our enemies. Don't be led away from God or deceived by false teachings.