Being born of water and Spirit

FreeGrace2 · May 22, 2022

Actually, v.4-6 PROVE that Jesus was correcting Nic's misunderstanding about what being "born again" refers to. His confusion led him to think in terms of two physical births. So Jesus corrected him by noting there is a physical birth (born of water) and a spiritual birth (born of the Spirit).

v.6 couldn't be more clear.
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

That is the full meaning of being "born again". One physical birth and one spiritual birth.

And NO water baptism involved.

Since all believers (saved people) in the Millennium will be glorified, the kingdom of God would refer to the whole of heaven, whether the 3rd heaven or the Millennial kingdom on earth, or the new earth (Rev 21).

Runningman · May 22, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:

John 1:13 says that natural birth isn’t useful for being born again. Therefore, the water component of being born of water and Spirit is water baptism and your interpretation of John 3:5 being about live birth to be born again creates a contradiction in scripture. It couldn’t be more clearer than that.

That’s not even all of the reasons why John 3:5 is about water baptism. The best reason is that theologically it doesn’t make sense. There isn’t a doctrine in the Bible that informs living people that they needed to be born in order to be born of water and Spirit. Linguistically that’s just silly and isn’t how God talks.

Furthermore, given that baptism is mentioned again, and again, and again as an image of rebirth, the supporting evidence for John 3:5 being about water baptism is in great favor. You have literally no evidence; you just keep pushing heresy because you’re a false teacher.

FreeGrace2 · May 22, 2022

Runningman said:

I agree that natural birth "isn't useful" for being born again, but John 1:13 doesn't say that. Seems you have a knack for misreading verses. v.13 teaches that being born again isn't from man's will. Just as being physically born isn't the will of the one being born.

What IS a choice in salvation is whether the person who understands the gospel message believes it or not. Those who do believe are born again by God. John 1:12,13. And saved by God. 1 Cor 1:21. And justified by God. Rom 5:1.

You are just so confused. What do you think v.6 is about? Two births, physical and spiritual. Jesus was explaining to Nic what He meant by being "born AGAIN". Nic was thinking another physical birth, and Jesus corrected him.

There are NO reasons for Jn 3:5 to be about water baptism.

I agree. Trying to force water baptism into John 3:3-6 DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

Again, Jesus was simply telling Nic that His comment about being "born again" in v.3 wasn't about a SECOND physical birth.

And again, v.6 couldn't be any more clear.

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

If v.5 is about water baptism, then v.6 DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

Since v.6 is clearly about a physical and spiritual birth, it is clear that Jesus was explaining to poor 'ol Nic that being born again doesn't mean TWO physical births.

How about this; no one can enter the kingdom unless they are human beings and born again spiritually? Agree or not?

"again and again"???? In John??? Or where?

There you go, being all nasty and such. Just because I disagree with you and explain what verses mean, you get all personal and mean.

This isn't personal. At least not to me. It is simply about what Scripture says and means.

And since v.6 IS IS IS the evidence for "born of water" to be a reference to physical birth, it is you without any evidence for water baptism.

Don't you realize that when Jesus told Nic what He did, the church age was NOT YET in existence. So you can forget about water baptism being what church age believers need to get saved.

When you put v.5 and 6 together, as I have above, and STILL cannot see what Jesus was explaining, there just isn't anything more that anyone can say that will help you. But it is clear enough. So you don't have any excuse.

iow, v.6 explains v.5.

Now, prove me wrong about v.6 explaining v.5.

If Jesus wasn't talking about a physical birth in v.5 with "born of water", why would He then say v.6 and how would v.6 fit within the context from v.3?

If Jesus was talking about water baptism, why even say v.6? It would have been irrelevant.

Runningman · May 23, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:

This is why I told you to forget most everything you know about the scriptures as you’re wrong again. You seem to lack any sense of embarrassment comment after comment after comment.

John 1:13 says that being born of flesh isn’t what makes someone born again so the birth of “water and Spirit” that Jesus said is what constitutes being born again is clearly not live birth.

John 3::5-7
5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit.7Do not be amazed that I said, ‘You must be born again.’

It seems critical thinking is still a lost skill from the days of Nicodemus who had the audacity to think a person could be born twice.

Let me make this is clear and simple for you: Jesus is talking about spiritual rebirth when He said you must be born of “water and Spirit” not a flesh birth. Water baptism is spiritual because it is a commandment from God and faith in Christ is spiritual because it is a commandment from God.

I can back up water and Spirit birth with many cereals, yet you can’t even provide 1 verse that talks about the necessity of live birth. Big read flag you’re a false teacher and I’m right.

FreeGrace2 · May 23, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:
I agree that natural birth "isn't useful" for being born again, but John 1:13 doesn't say that. Seems you have a knack for misreading verses. v.13 teaches that being born again isn't from man's will. Just as being physically born isn't the will of the one being born.

Runningman said:

You haven't proven anything. Other than your ability to misunderstand Scripture.

However, since you think I am wrong, prove it with evidence. Not just your opinons.

What is there to be embarrassed about? I'm not the one who misreads and therefore misunderstands Scripture.

Well, you just refuted your own opinion by quoting Jn 3:5-7, which I will color code for you.

Anyone can easily see that the red words in v.5 refer to the red words in v.6 and the blue words in v.5 refer to the blue words in v.6.

Yes, that was the problem with Nic. He was only thinking about physical birth. So Jesus explained to him there is physical birth and spiritual birth. And v.5 and 6 PROVE that Jesus meant physical birth by "born of water".

If you can't see how and why v.6 explains v.5, then I can't help you. And it is simple to understand.

This is a confused opinion. Just read John 3:5 and 6 until it sinks in. Hopefully, it will.

Hmm. How do you do that? I can't imagine. I eat cereal.

Why are you so hung up on this nonsense notion of "the necessity of live birth". I never said a live birth is necessary.

Your eyes are so tightly closed that no light can get in. Which is why you aren't getting any of this.

Nic thought Jesus was talking about TWO physical births by His statement of being "born AGAIN". See? Not difficult.

So Jesus simply pointed out there is a physical birth and a spiritual birth. So being "born AGAIN" would refer to the spiritual birth, which is required for entering the kingdom.

No, you are just very very confused. If you'd just open your eyes and let some light in, you'd be able to see it.

So, scroll back up to where I color coded John 3:5 and 6 and address just that. Prove that the red words and blue words of v.5 DON'T refer to the red and blue words of v.6.

iow, put your money where your mouth is.

kenallen · May 25, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:

Actually, v.4-6 PROVE that Jesus was correcting Nic's misunderstanding about what being "born again" refers to. His confusion led him to think in terms of two physical births. So Jesus corrected him by noting there is a physical birth (born of water) and a spiritual birth (born of the Spirit).

v.6 couldn't be more clear.
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

That is the full meaning of being "born again". One physical birth and one spiritual birth.

And NO water baptism involved.

Since all believers (saved people) in the Millennium will be glorified, the kingdom of God would refer to the whole of heaven, whether the 3rd heaven or the Millennial kingdom on earth, or the new earth (Rev 21).

Nicely put

Runningman · May 25, 2022

kenallen said:

It’s really not. Actually it’s heresy. If physical birth is part of being “born again” then being physically born of water would be the first birth. To be born again of “water and Spirit” would require going back into and coming out of a mother like Nicodemus thought. So that’s all wrong. Listen to Jesus here.

If being born of water is a physical birth required for being born of water and Spirit then that contradicts John 1:13,14 where it says that that children of God are not born of flesh/blood. So that rules out the possibility of John 3:5 being about being physically born.

John 1:12,13
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 3:5
5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Being born of water and Spirit is about water baptism and Spiritual rebirth. Together, water and Spirit, is how to be born again.

FreeGrace2 · May 25, 2022

kenallen said:
Nicely put

Runningman said:

It's nice to see rational people recognizing the truth. It isn't heresy, Rm. It is the truth. It is you who are dabbling in heresy. v.6 PROVES that Jesus was noting physical birth by the words "born of water".

1 John 5:6 - This is the one who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.

From: http://www.freebiblecommentary.org/new_testament_studies/VOL04/VOL04_27.html

"by water and blood" It seems that "water" refers to Jesus' physical birth (cf. John 3:1-9) and "blood" refers to His physical death. In the context of the Gnostic false teachers' rejection of Jesus' true humanity, these two experiences summarize and reveal His humanity.
A second option related to the Gnostic false teachers (Cerinthus) is that "water" refers to Jesus' baptism. They asserted that the "Christ spirit" came upon the man Jesus at His baptism (water) and left before the man Jesus' death on the cross (blood, see a good summary in NASB Study Bible, p. 1835).
A third option is to relate the phrase to Jesus' death. The spear caused "blood and water" (cf. John 19:34) to pour out. The false teachers depreciated Jesus' vicarious, substitutionary death.

So, your claim about John 3:5 being a reference to Jesus' baptism places your view smack within the Gnostic false teachers.

I have already refuted this. Being born physically has NO PART in being born again. Why do you persist with this nonsense?

But Jesus DIDN'T say "born AGAIN of water and Spirit". You are twisting the words around for your benefit and agenda. Quit.

Your confusion blocks reason.

v.12 shows that those who believe become children of God.
v.13 teaches that man doesn't choose to be born again. Same for our physical birth. None of us chose to be physically born.

Sure, ignore v.6, the verse that explains v.5. That is being dishonest, imho.

I'm going to color code v.5 and 6 again, to show that v.6 explains v.5. I hope you are not color blind.

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

Connect the red words in v.5 with the red words in v.6. They refer to the same thing. Ditto for the blue words.

If your theory were corrrect, v.6 would have been totally unnecessary and its inclusion in the context would make NO SENSE.

What does make sense is that v.6 explains v.5.

Runningman · May 25, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:

You're creating an interpretation here which absolutely does not support the Biblical narrative. As John 1:13, says, being born of blood does not make someone a child of God. So now you're treading into blasphemy territory by saying that the live birth of Jesus is what makes someone a child of God, born again, when the Bible directly refutes it.

1 John 5:6 is about the water baptism, the spirit, and the blood of Christ.

John 19:33
34But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.

The significance of blood and water coming from Jesus was an image of forgiveness of sins by the blood of Christ and water baptism. 1 John 5 is a not to the "water and blood" of the cross.

You're basically saying if I don't agree with your narrow-minded interpretation that I am a false teacher and supporting that lie by quoting commentaries that agree with you, not scripture, and disregarding all of the commentaries that contradict you.

Now I am going to do the same thing to you:

See this? Here's an excerpt from a commentary that contradicts you so you're wrong now.

"The question to ask is this: where do “water” and “the Spirit” come together in the Old Testament in a context that promises a new beginning? There are several possibilities, but the most obvious is Ezekiel 36:25–27:

I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and you will be clean. I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

So God is promising through the prophet Ezekiel, six centuries before Jesus, that a time is coming when there will be a transformative new beginning, characterized by spectacular cleansing symbolized by water that washes away all impurities and idols, and by the powerful gift of the Spirit that transforms the hearts of people. That is what is required if people are to see and enter the kingdom of God."

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/born-water-spirit-mean/

You've refuted nothing. What I saw was you speaking heresies and trying to make me believe them which will never happen. Why do you persist with this nonsense?

No you quit. This is my thread and if you keep posting false information in it I'll keep refuting you.

Your confusion is muddying the waters and leading people astray.

Jesus doesn't need to tell people who are born that they need to be born. The correct way to understand John 1:12,13 is that being physically born isn't a component of the Spiritual rebirth as you almost seem to be understanding. You said it comes through faith in Christ, look at that, you're getting close now.

Your opinion isn't honest.

Really pay attention to this here.

Jesus is refuting Nicodemus who thought that being born from a woman two times was how to be born again. Jesus is saying that being born of a woman is flesh giving birth to flesh which is not spiritual rebirth and not required. Before that Jesus literally said "you must be born of water and Spirit" so He is not contradicting Himself by saying you need a flesh birth. Jesus is saying to be born again you must have a spiritual rebirth through water baptism and Holy Spirit.

FreeGrace2 · May 25, 2022

Runningman said:

Thank you for YOUR opinion.

Read it again. It does NOT say that.

Nonsense. I've never said if anything. I showed you a comment from a commentary. That's all. iow, my view isn't just mine.

Big deal. The proof is in the pudding. v.6 destroys your theory. v.6 explains what "born of water" means in v.5.

I gues you really ARE color blind. The color coding is undeniable.

The Ezek passage describes being born again.

There is NO mention of water in the Ezek passage. You're just making up stuff.

You're color blind.

The biggest heresy on this thread is resurrection requiring water baptism.

btw, how you you STILL won't answer my question about those believers who haven't been baptized when the resurrection of ALL believers occurs?

You've refuted nothing. This thread is your heresy.

Thank you for your opinion.

He didn't. Why don't you read my posts. It was ol' Nic who thought Jesus was talking about a second physical birth. So Jesus pointed out the need to be born spiritually, which is another birth, but just not a physical one, as ol' Nic thought.

Your conclusion here is wrong. I've never ever thought that way. And I've explained both verses multiple times, so your conclusion is coming from your own fantasy. Not from what I have posted.

Thank you for your opinion.

Really pay attention to this here.

Jesus is refuting Nicodemus who thought that being born from a woman two times was how to be born again.[/QUOTE]
How about that! That has been my point.

Nope. Jesus never said what "wasn't required". That's just your insertion into the narrative that isn't there. Jesus was making the point that being "born again" means a spiritual birth.

Jesus NEVER said anything about a water baptism.

It is really too bad you are so color blind. I've explained it. It's up to you to comprehend it. The color coding makes it real easy.

Go find someone who isn't color blind and have them read the color coded verses (5 and 6).

kenallen · May 25, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:

kenallen said:
Nicely put

It's nice to see rational people recognizing the truth. It isn't heresy, Rm. It is the truth. It is you who are dabbling in heresy. v.6 PROVES that Jesus was noting physical birth by the words "born of water".

1 John 5:6 - This is the one who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.

From: http://www.freebiblecommentary.org/new_testament_studies/VOL04/VOL04_27.html

"by water and blood" It seems that "water" refers to Jesus' physical birth (cf. John 3:1-9) and "blood" refers to His physical death. In the context of the Gnostic false teachers' rejection of Jesus' true humanity, these two experiences summarize and reveal His humanity.
A second option related to the Gnostic false teachers (Cerinthus) is that "water" refers to Jesus' baptism. They asserted that the "Christ spirit" came upon the man Jesus at His baptism (water) and left before the man Jesus' death on the cross (blood, see a good summary in NASB Study Bible, p. 1835).
A third option is to relate the phrase to Jesus' death. The spear caused "blood and water" (cf. John 19:34) to pour out. The false teachers depreciated Jesus' vicarious, substitutionary death.

So, your claim about John 3:5 being a reference to Jesus' baptism places your view smack within the Gnostic false teachers.

I have already refuted this. Being born physically has NO PART in being born again. Why do you persist with this nonsense?

But Jesus DIDN'T say "born AGAIN of water and Spirit". You are twisting the words around for your benefit and agenda. Quit.

Your confusion blocks reason.

v.12 shows that those who believe become children of God.
v.13 teaches that man doesn't choose to be born again. Same for our physical birth. None of us chose to be physically born.

Sure, ignore v.6, the verse that explains v.5. That is being dishonest, imho.

I'm going to color code v.5 and 6 again, to show that v.6 explains v.5. I hope you are not color blind.

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

Connect the red words in v.5 with the red words in v.6. They refer to the same thing. Ditto for the blue words.

If your theory were corrrect, v.6 would have been totally unnecessary and its inclusion in the context would make NO SENSE.

What does make sense is that v.6 explains v.5.

Thank you Free Grace. Running man has the same problem Nicodemus had He could not quite get it.

kenallen · May 25, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:

Actually, v.4-6 PROVE that Jesus was correcting Nic's misunderstanding about what being "born again" refers to. His confusion led him to think in terms of two physical births. So Jesus corrected him by noting there is a physical birth (born of water) and a spiritual birth (born of the Spirit).

v.6 couldn't be more clear.
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

That is the full meaning of being "born again". One physical birth and one spiritual birth.

And NO water baptism involved.

Since all believers (saved people) in the Millennium will be glorified, the kingdom of God would refer to the whole of heaven, whether the 3rd heaven or the Millennial kingdom on earth, or the new earth (Rev 21).

FreeGrace It is nice to find someone on here that has some common sence when it comes to reading and understanding God word.

kenallen · May 25, 2022

Runningman said:

If we have faith in Christ we will have faith in everything He said and not only the the things He did. Christ said water baptism is righteous, part of being born of water and Spirit, and is a commandment in the great commission.

Part of why water baptism is so unclear to so many people is that it isn't mentioned consistently as a requirement for forgiveness of sins, salvation, eternal life, etc. There is enough material in the Bible to build a case for salvation through faith alone and there is certainly enough material to build a case for the requirement of baptism. We need to accept both and unite the requirement of water and faith.

Where I am currently at is that water baptism is necessary for the salvation of the glorified resurrected body. Jesus told us repeatedly to have faith in Him for salvation and then only mentioned water baptism a bit.

My line of thinking goes like this: if Jesus said "be born of water and Spirit" then what happened if I am only born of Spirit? That means my soul is born again. A soul born of God's Spirit can't be unsaved. What if I am only born of water? Like a live birth through amniotic fluid, water baptism is our physical body dying and being resurrected. Water and Spirit is therefore physical salvation of the resurrected body and soul salvation.

John 1:12,13
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 3:5-7
5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Now consider what Jesus said below:

Mark 16:16
16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

To reverse engineer Mark 16:16, Jesus said you if you believe then you won't be damned which means you won't be judged for your sins which means salvation. However, believing and water baptism is salvation, too, but it's salvation of both the soul and something else... in my view that's water baptism for the physical body. I already know the rebuttal about Mark 16:16 and there isn't enough evidence to not accept it as truth.

For Romans 6:4,5... In the likeness of His death (going down into the water like you're being buried in the ground like someone who died... and then rising up out of the water as if raising from the dead) except you don't actually die and don't actually get resurrected yet. Death is later and resurrection is later too. Romans 6:4,5 says water baptism is necessary for resurrection.

Romans 6:4,5
4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

For 1 Peter 3:21... it point blank says that water baptism saves by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. That means if you are water baptized then you'll be saved via a bodily resurrection.

1 Peter 3:21
21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

For 1 Corinthians 15:29... the answer to this question is that immersion in water baptism is pointless unless there is a resurrection.

1 Cor. 15:29
29Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?

Let me posse a question to you. Someone gets saved, born again, asks Jesus into his or her life where this person got saved there was no place to get baptized they are in a car crash on the way home and are killed; They do not get to go to heaven? What about a death bed confession'
Let me know what you thank.

Runningman · May 25, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:

Read my post again you aren't understanding it.

Nonsense. My view isn't just mine. As you can see, I just showed you a sound Bible commentary that destroyed your commentary.

Go back and read it again. It doesn't make sense the way you're presenting it.

Your color coding is useless. You're projecting your interpretation into the scripture which will be debunked again and again.

Now I know you're either blind, a liar, or both.

Ezekiel 36:25-27
25Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Now you're calling the Bible heresy:

Romans 6:5 KJV
5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

1 Peter 3:21 KJV
21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

I answered it. Like everything else I have shown you, you contradicted it and rejected it. Feel free to dig through hundreds on my comments until you find it.

That's false.

My opinion is the Bible.

No humility to just admit when you were wrong, but it sounds like you're finally reversing course a bit. Goo job.

That's false.

You said water is a reference to being physically born which is what Nicodemus thought and the interpretation you favor.

Born of water and Spirit is being born again. It's water baptism and spiritual rebirth.

Too bad you don't seem to understand the Bible. Anything else you want to say?

I can read them just fine. How about you go find someone who can read the Bible and explain it for you? Clearly you aren't hearing the Bible or anything I say at this point. Possibly someone more neutral than myself like a pastor or Christian counselor.

Runningman · May 25, 2022

kenallen said:

That's an odd thing to say about me to someone else since Nicodemus thought being born again meant going back into his mother for a second time and then going out again. A stance that I couldn't possibly reject more.

Being born again of water and Spirit means to be born from above, by the will of God, and has nothing to do with a flesh birth which is an entirely separate birth from the spiritual birth. Please slowly read John 1 and John 3. I hope you see it.

Runningman · May 25, 2022

kenallen said:

I think what the Bible says.

1 John 5:13
13These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

It is written that eternal life comes through belief in the Son of God. From my perspective, 1 John 5:13 is the best verse to support this. Therefore, it is through faith that eternal life of the soul is given as a gift of God.

The Bible also says that water baptism is required for the resurrection.

Why would Mark 16:15,16 say to be baptized to be saved, but that not believing results in judgment? Why Does Romans 6:4,5 say to be water baptized in order to be resurrected? Why does 1 Peter 3:21 say water baptism save by the resurrection of Jesus Christ? If you can answer those questions then you're blessed.

FreeGrace2 · May 26, 2022

kenallen said:

So true! Thanks.

FreeGrace2 · May 26, 2022

kenallen said:

Thank you. I discovered how to study and learn; from the Bereans in Acts 17:11. So I apply that to any and every one who makes biblical claims. I check it out to "see if what they say is true".

FreeGrace2 · May 26, 2022

Runningman said:

I think we're done here. You fail to discern between the DRY baptism of the Holy Spirit and the WET baptism of believers.

Even with color coding John 3:5,6 you still seem unable to understand, just like ol' Nic.

You've been given the truth. It's up to you to process it.

Runningman · May 26, 2022

FreeGrace2 said:

Same to you. Thoughts and prayers.

Being born of water and Spirit

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