Just curious. Do you attend church? If so, what denomination or non-affiliation?
Do you believe in (OSAS) Once Saved, Always Saved?
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Heb 12:14-16 is also to be considered:
"14Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. 15See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many. 16See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son."
Question to OSAS believers: if a Christian who says he is saved committed sexual immorality, then, would you say,
(A) he was never saved to begin with
(B) he needs to be saved again/repent.
Or
(C) something else.
?
God Bless.
"14Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. 15See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many. 16See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son."
Question to OSAS believers: if a Christian who says he is saved committed sexual immorality, then, would you say,
(A) he was never saved to begin with
(B) he needs to be saved again/repent.
Or
(C) something else.
?
God Bless.
Sanctificaiton comes when a believer receives the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. This happens when a believer sincerely seeks to receive the Holy Spirit, and one or more Sanctified believers lay hands on them and pray over them. This can happen at the same time as a persons salvation, or it can happen at a later time.
Not every person is saved in a Congregational setting, and may well be somewhere all alone with no other person around.
These scriptures are read all wrong, being cut off from Christ, fallen away from grace does not mean loss of salvation. They mean Christ is of no avail to us in the present, for as long as we remain in error. Our prayer life dries up, the bible is no longer ALIVE to us, no longer fresh, our praise and worship becomes perfunctory, we no longer enjoy fellowship etc etc.
How many christians do you know in this condition? still they are saved. But they sure have lost their first love. That is what happened at Galatia. Paul woos them back to the simplicity of the gospel, he doesn't damn them.
My Church is called the Holy Virgin Bride, and she is not of this earth and is at war with the entire earth which in the End will be destroyed by the Revelation of the face of my Father. Denominations are entirely forbidden and the Holy Virgin Bride shall utterly supplant all of them. My Father will save all his children, resurrecting them to eternal life, and my Lord, Jesus Christ, will have his Holy Virgin Bride and we will all dwell together as a family face to face with our Father, as he always intended, for eternity, in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.
1 Corinthians 5 obviously relates to your question:
In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
(1 Corinthians 5:4-5)
note that the man is not condemned, but his flesh is ((vis-a-vis Romans 7, not i but sin that dwelleth in me, that is, in my flesh)). and the purpose of the condemnation in his flesh is that his spirit will be saved.(1 Corinthians 5:4-5)
'Godly sorrow produces repentance' -- and in Paul's next letter..
This punishment which was inflicted by the majority is sufficient for such a man, so that, on the contrary, you ought rather to forgive and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one be swallowed up with too much sorrow. Therefore I urge you to reaffirm your love to him.
(2 Corinthians 2:6-8)
he is welcomed back, in love. (2 Corinthians 2:6-8)
does this mean he lost salvation, and regained it?
became a goat and then became a sheep again?
i think in 1 Cor. 5 because it is said, 'so that his spirit may be saved' the idea of him having lost his salvation is excluded.
he was chastised, as a son, and he learned from it.
I don't think there is any difference.
But getting back to verse 2, it's interesting that the word "takes away" literally means "lifts up".
2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He [a]takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
This supports the thought that those in Him, not bearing fruit, are not tossed into the fire like those NOT in Him, but are rather taken away from bearing "much fruit", which results in rewards, NOT SALVATION, at the judgement seat of Christ.
Those people will be there because Jesus is their foundation, but they didn't build ANYTHING of value on that foundation.
ah - i missed your post last night. thanks
Create in me a clean heart, O God,
And renew a steadfast spirit within me.
Do not cast me away from Your presence,
And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.
(Psalm 51:10-11)
(Psalm 51:10-11)
this must be what you are referring to, peldom
for now i want to point out, David is asking for a clean heart and a steadfast spirit - and praying that God does not take His Spirit away.
which means David, as he writes, has an unclean heart, and a wavering spirit - but God has not taken His Spirit away from him.
Only here on CC do Christians who claim to be Christians try to tear down other Christians...
Well really it is happening through out the Christian community.
Established is the Christian right and the christian left which is made up of new age religion thinkers who believe in interpreting the KJV 1611 Bible in unsupported and unprecedented ways. Their interest is to change God's word to accommodate their social agenda. We see it in many ways including, abortion, homosexuality, gender issues, plundering God's word and christian community, etc.
Such is rejected by the true Christian right.
The conflict is and will grow in intensity, rapidly. In another way...you haven't seen anything ...yet.
And then verse 51: 12-14
Restore to me the joy of your salvation
and grant me a willing spirit, to sustain me.
13 Then I will teach transgressors your ways,
so that sinners will turn back to you.
14 Deliver me from bloodguiltiness , O my God , the God of my Salvation, then my tongue will joyfully sing of Your righteousness.
i wish i could accept OSAS would make life so much easier. Go sin as much as we like when we like with no fear of justice.
i might go live that lifestyle for awhile and see how it feel.s
i might go live that lifestyle for awhile and see how it feel.s
This
Taken together with this
Makes up a great point really, it's the end result of this doctrine. Instead of running the race and enduring to the end in order to win the incorruptible crown it is pretty much everyone gets a participation trophy even if they give up before even the first lap.
Taken together with this
Makes up a great point really, it's the end result of this doctrine. Instead of running the race and enduring to the end in order to win the incorruptible crown it is pretty much everyone gets a participation trophy even if they give up before even the first lap.
Please ponder for a moment.......isn't that thinking suggesting a varied degree of salvation...notwithstanding scripture of the 5 crowns....?
Example ...concluding Billy Graham's standing with God is as we saw him, would he not have greater salvation recognition than...oh....me?
No true child of God behaves that way...
You are insulting The Holy Spirit without even knowing it...
Your post is describing those who "claim " to know Christ , but they do not , obviously...
There is going to be a lot of people standing before God , when God opens their book , and He will bring forward every slandering word spoke against His true children...
It is not to be.
Otherwise why would God give us;
Unlimited number of times we can receive forgiveness...wouldn't one application work?
why does scripture warn us about backsliding?
Why does scripture warn us that it would be better that we would have never known of God's revealing for us?
why does scripture warn us ....do not allow any man to steal your crowns?
Why does scripture say...maintain (Righteousness) until the end?
Why does scripture intent show God/Christ/Holy spirit cannot reside where sin is present?
Further, the concept is in conflict with God's intent that we prepare ourselves and live a righteous life.
etc.
Further,
it is an interpretation of scriptures which did not exists prior to the 1960's....which is telling.
no argument from me... i just waiting to seewho wins the debate and then i can either fight the fight or go and sin ..
Carrry on !!!!
Carrry on !!!!
doesnt matter if it is OSAS...
not my doctine . just thinking of the wider path we could all follow if it is true