Do you believe in (OSAS) Once Saved, Always Saved?

[peldom10]

So let's discuss the doctrine/issue of so-called Conditional Security vs Eternal Security. Do you believe in Once Saved, Always Saved? I believe Salvation is a Combination of the Grace of Justification+the Grace of Perseverance i.e. Salvation=Justification+Perseverance. So, after Justification, we must pray for perseverance, otherwise we risk being cut off or falling away, as the Bible records that some have done. By God's Grace, we can persevere to the end.

The famous saying of Our Lord is: "But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved." (Mat 24:13)

Three or four passages to start off the discussion below:

1. John 15: "2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit ... 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."

Seems to be echoed in Romans 11:22: "22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off."

2. Heb 6:4-6:
"4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

3. 2 Pet 2:20-22:

"20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."

These verses very clearly seem to teach that Justification!=(not equal to)Salvation. Initial Justification+Final Perseverance = Full Salvation. Thoughts?

God Bless,
Xavier.

The KJV Bible........proves the proper biblical interpretation of.......saved;

MATTHEW 24:13 KJV "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
( endure ...maintains...keeps...sustains ....not perseveres as new age religion changed it)

OSAS while on the earth is wrong doctrine. We are .......born again......... here and must endure/maintain that......... until the end.

.....It is appointed unto man once to die...then the judgement.

 

[peldom10]

SAVED means SAVED. If you can “lose your salvation” you were never SAVED.

Wrong.
Please see 81 above.

 

[Snacks]

Wrong.
Please see 81 above.

I said nothing about when someone is SAVED, I stated quite clearly that SAVED means SAVED. If you can “lose your salvation” you were never SAVED. What don’t you understand about that?

 

[Chester]

Sometimes I believe in once saved always saved, and sometimes I don't. After listening to a Once Save Always Saved podcast, that I have come to the conclusion that either OSAS or Conditional Security, is twisting the word. I'm just not sure which one.

The person who is believing and continues to believe has eternal life. But the one who is not believing (in Jesus) does not have eternal life. This is what Scripture teaches.

OSAS says that once a person has faith, he will always have faith. This eliminates free choice for the believer. OSAS is actually a natural conclusion of the 5 point Calvinistic teaching. Some try to make it stand separately from Calvinism, but it really makes no sense standing on its own.

OSAS seems attractive in that it guarantees the believer assurance of salvation. In actuality, most interpretations of OSAS actually rob the believer of the joy of assurance of salvation. Why? Many people who hold to OSAS will say that a person who appears to backslide and no longer lives as a Christian most likely never was a Christian to start with. Thus, you need to maintain and live a life of good works if you want those around you to think that you are still saved. And if you are basing your assurance on your works that will be a rough time!

Many who do not hold to OSAS have an incomplete view of forgiveness, thinking that forgiveness for a Christian is based on verbally confessing the sin to God after it has been committed. This view makes assurance difficult because one always wonders if he has verbally confessed all the sins! But the Bible teaches that it is the blood of Christ that cleanses us from each and every sin: that is - sins that the believer commits are immediately and automatically forgiven through Jesus' blood atonement. OSAS differs from this in that it teaches that at the moment in time that a person is saved (first believes) all his past and future sins are automatically and completely forgiven. But there is no Scripture that says this. Forgiveness is always for past acts and deeds.

The person who is believing in Jesus can have complete assurance of salvation and know that he has eternal life. If a person is not believing, they will not see life!

 

[Chester]

Most of the passages used to "prove" OSAS are powerful promises to the ones who are believing in Jesus. But it is clear they are promises to the one who is believing in Jesus. They are not promises to the one who is not believing.

 

[Chester]

I said nothing about when someone is SAVED, I stated quite clearly that SAVED means SAVED. If you can “lose your salvation” you were never SAVED. What don’t you understand about that?

If I save someone from drowning in a pool: that is - I saved them, but they jump back into the pool again after I leave, and drown: Now does that mean that since they lost their life, that I never saved them at all?

 

[JAPOV]

21For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.

They had the knowledge of God but denied the power thereof. They were obviously NOT BAPTIZED IN THE SPIRIT.

 

[Chester]

John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

Just looking carefully at the one verse you quote is sufficient to see the point:

John 5:24 says that the one who is hearing and is believing (both verbs are the Greek present tense = ongoing action) has eternal life. That promise is sufficient for me. I do not need to add "unrevocable security" to the text.

 

[JAPOV]

The KJV Bible........proves the proper biblical interpretation of.......saved;

MATTHEW 24:13 KJV "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
( endure ...maintains...keeps...sustains ....not perseveres as new age religion changed it)

OSAS while on the earth is wrong doctrine. We are .......born again......... here and must endure/maintain that......... until the end.

.....It is appointed unto man once to die...then the judgement.

You can do nothing OF YOUR OWN WILL. Without the SPIRIT, YOU CANNOT ENDURE ANYTHING.

 

[peldom10]

I said nothing about when someone is SAVED, I stated quite clearly that SAVED means SAVED. If you can “lose your salvation” you were never SAVED. What don’t you understand about that?

Scripture prevails.

 

[Beckie]

The KJV Bible........proves the proper biblical interpretation of.......saved;

MATTHEW 24:13 KJV "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
( endure ...maintains...keeps...sustains ....not perseveres as new age religion changed it)

OSAS while on the earth is wrong doctrine. We are .......born again......... here and must endure/maintain that......... until the end.

.....It is appointed unto man once to die...then the judgement.

Maintain , keep sustain exactly what ? Please reply in detail .

 

[Snacks]

Wrong.
Please see 81 above.

I said nothing about when someone is saved,

If I save someone from drowning in a pool: that is - I saved them, but they jump back into the pool again after I leave, and drown: Now does that mean that since they lost their life, that I never saved them at all?

It’s not a good analogy, but that said, you’re correct in that you never saved them because you didn’t prevent them from jumping back in the water.

 

[Beckie]

I said nothing about when someone is saved,

It’s not a good analogy, but that said, you’re correct in that you never saved them because you didn’t prevent them from jumping back in the water.

Php_1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

 

[peldom10]

Because one says he is a Pentecostal preacher does not mean he is saved ... lots of folks can play the pentecostal games , we can say we are anything that does not make our words true.. I am picking on pentecostals cause i am one.

No.

Maintain , keep sustain exactly what ? Please reply in detail .

The KJV Bible says....maintain until the end....speaking of ......a life of righteousness ........ during that life time we are born again.
Example; a person who repents, is baptized and is living a righteous...must maintain that status...born again...until physical death.

 

[Beckie]

No.



The KJV Bible says....maintain until the end....speaking of ......a life of righteousness ........ during that life time we are born again.
Example; a person who repents, is baptized and is living a righteous...must maintain that status...born again...until physical death.

You clearly believe in a works doctrine of Salvation.

 

[peldom10]

You clearly believe in a works doctrine of Salvation.

Call it as you wish. The Bible does not say....maintaining a righteous life is ...works.
I reject your transference attempt into works.
Having said that.....maintaining...which I think you suggest....absolutely...it is a challenge.

 

[Beckie]

Because one says he is a Pentecostal preacher does not mean he is saved ... lots of folks can play the pentecostal games , we can say we are anything that does not make our words true.. I am picking on pentecostals cause i am one.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[arthurfleminger]

Like all of you on this chat board, I hold that Scripture, the Bible Old and New Testament, are God's truth and God's word to us.

Yet I have a very serious question. Of what value is the Bible to us if we all interpret it differently. As evidenced on this board none of us can agree with other on so many major issues....ie...OSAS /tribulation/justification/baptism....etc on and on. For instance, how many times has OSAS been brought up on this board, with full discussion, and with the Bible as the reference? And still no concensus!

Yet we all say that our beliefs come from the Bible and we bandy about quotes and excerpts to try and prove our points. The fact is that if we are believing in the Bible and interpreting it differently in so many ways, THEN MANY OF US HAVE TO BE WRONG!

What is the problem? Do we interpret Scripture as to how we want Scripture to read. Do we interpret Scripture as to how our pastor taught us to interpret it? Do we interpret Scripture literally or do we add our own opinions as to what Scripture should be?

So many of us have different truths from reading the same Scripture. But there aren't many different truths, only one truth, God's truth. That would mean that many of us are living with lies/untruths in our faith. What's wrong with this picture?

What good is the Bible if we can't interpret it?

 

[Beckie]

Call it as you wish. The Bible does not say....maintaining a righteous life is ...works.
I reject your transference attempt into works.
Having said that.....maintaining...which I think you suggest....absolutely...it is a challenge.

I am reading a salvation of :

I maintain. I repent I hold my salvation I meet the challenge ..
The Word says
Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

 

[JAPOV]

No.



The KJV Bible says....maintain until the end....speaking of ......a life of righteousness ........ during that life time we are born again.
Example; a person who repents, is baptized and is living a righteous...must maintain that status...born again...until physical death.

How do you live a righteous life without being led by the Spirit?