Do you believe in (OSAS) Once Saved, Always Saved?
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Thank you PennEd you have just given me another 101 reasons not to have anything to do with today's denominal churches.
Jesus would refer to them today as, the synagogue of Satan in Revelation 2:9 & 3:9. You have confirmed my post that a majority of churches and pastors are as stated in 2nd Corinthians 1. 12But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. 13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
If we sin knowingly and willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth: What truth is that? That Jesus came to this earth to gives his life for the forgiveness of sin. If we except that forgiveness then turn again to the world again THERE REMAIN NO MORE SACFRICE.
2nd Corinthains 11:1 Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. 2For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
If you are once saved always saved why was Paul worried that the Christians at Corinth could be " BEGUILED" as Eve was by Satan.
biblehub.com › greek › 1818Strong's Greek: 1818. ἐξαπατάω (exapataó) -- to seduce wholly ...
beguile, deceive, seduce. From ek and apatao; to seduce wholly -- beguile, deceive. see GREEK ek. see GREEK apatao
Does your church teach that Eve was not a virgin after her encounter with Satan in the Garden of Eden?
Galatians 1:6I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Explain to me how it is if once you get saved you are always saved if Paul tells us That He marvels that some can be so soon removed by a false gospel.
As I read this I have to think that either you or Paul are wrong. I am going to put my life on the fact that Paul is right and your traditions of men is wrong.
Jesus would refer to them today as, the synagogue of Satan in Revelation 2:9 & 3:9. You have confirmed my post that a majority of churches and pastors are as stated in 2nd Corinthians 1. 12But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. 13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
If we sin knowingly and willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth: What truth is that? That Jesus came to this earth to gives his life for the forgiveness of sin. If we except that forgiveness then turn again to the world again THERE REMAIN NO MORE SACFRICE.
2nd Corinthains 11:1 Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. 2For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
If you are once saved always saved why was Paul worried that the Christians at Corinth could be " BEGUILED" as Eve was by Satan.
biblehub.com › greek › 1818Strong's Greek: 1818. ἐξαπατάω (exapataó) -- to seduce wholly ...
beguile, deceive, seduce. From ek and apatao; to seduce wholly -- beguile, deceive. see GREEK ek. see GREEK apatao
Does your church teach that Eve was not a virgin after her encounter with Satan in the Garden of Eden?
Galatians 1:6I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Explain to me how it is if once you get saved you are always saved if Paul tells us That He marvels that some can be so soon removed by a false gospel.
As I read this I have to think that either you or Paul are wrong. I am going to put my life on the fact that Paul is right and your traditions of men is wrong.
Was Peter saved when he confessed that Jesus is the one and only Son of God? Was he saved when he swore that he would fight for Jesus till death? Nevertheless he denied Jesus three times, and later he went back fishing even though he had personally visited and examined the empty tomb. I don't think he was. His new life in Christ started NOT at the sea of Galilee, but at the Pentecost, with the annoiting of the Holy Spirit. That should tell you something about true salvation - "unless one is born of water and SPIRIT, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." And oftentimes, that takes a really traumatic experience that brings you down on your needs.
There is a difference between being saved from troubles, trials, tribulations, and being saved eternally.
The 'he who endures to the end' verse has context of deliverance from trials and tribulations, not about eternal deliverance.
Hebrews 10.. where their is remission of these..there is no longer a sacrifice for sins..
Context of this through Hebrews is animal sacrifice.
So someone who gets saved and is a Jew would be inclined to still do animal sacrifice rituals.. but under Jesus ' grace... He is the ultimate lamb.. and animal sacrifice is done away with.
Similarly with Hebrews 6.. if its about someone who is saved... they cant be renewed to put Christ on the cross again to pay for their sins again.. because it's already been done. Jesus the one sacrifice.. saved once. Saved eternally.. can't do it again.
Another example is the candle stick being removed.. in Revelation.. with luke warm Christian's being spewed out.
Is this about eternal salvation or being removed from being in a church?
The chapters around this in Revelation are about churches.. not individuals alone. A candlestick is the place of the Holy Spirit in a church (not a building)
The Holy Spirit can remove His presence from an off beam church.
Does that mean every single member of that church then loses eternal life? No that's ridiculous.
So context is key. Take a brick from wall and call the brick the whole wall.. and you lose the whole framework.
Put the alone brick in the walk and you get a whole foundation.
The 'he who endures to the end' verse has context of deliverance from trials and tribulations, not about eternal deliverance.
Hebrews 10.. where their is remission of these..there is no longer a sacrifice for sins..
Context of this through Hebrews is animal sacrifice.
So someone who gets saved and is a Jew would be inclined to still do animal sacrifice rituals.. but under Jesus ' grace... He is the ultimate lamb.. and animal sacrifice is done away with.
Similarly with Hebrews 6.. if its about someone who is saved... they cant be renewed to put Christ on the cross again to pay for their sins again.. because it's already been done. Jesus the one sacrifice.. saved once. Saved eternally.. can't do it again.
Another example is the candle stick being removed.. in Revelation.. with luke warm Christian's being spewed out.
Is this about eternal salvation or being removed from being in a church?
The chapters around this in Revelation are about churches.. not individuals alone. A candlestick is the place of the Holy Spirit in a church (not a building)
The Holy Spirit can remove His presence from an off beam church.
Does that mean every single member of that church then loses eternal life? No that's ridiculous.
So context is key. Take a brick from wall and call the brick the whole wall.. and you lose the whole framework.
Put the alone brick in the walk and you get a whole foundation.
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That belongs to one of the five bad churches in Rev. 2-3, or the bad apples of the “synagogue of Satan” among the only two good churches. Notice that Jesus ends all seven letters with the same calling for INDIVIDUALs: "HE who has an ear, let HIM hear!" This is the NT equivalent of the shema prayer - "O hear Israel, the Lord is God, the Lord is one." God is reaching out to every individual, not limited to Israel any more. So, even if a whole congregation has gone apostate, the pastor's corrupt, the institution is infultrated by the enemy, each individual still has a chance to repent and receive grace through faith in Jesus.
John 6:37 plus John 10:28
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Maybe you ought to read Romans 1:
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world,g in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.
24Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
26For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
28And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Though they know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world,g in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.
24Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
26For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; 27and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.
28And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. 29They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Though they know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.
