andrew wommack

[ResidentAlien]

What preachers does anybody in the anti-WoF stance listen to???????

Imo K Hagin was anointed so we disagree here. Please who is it 'ok' to listen to then???????

I can't recommend anyone. The only truth I can recommend is Yahweh's word; it won't let you down. Keep studying, pray for discernment, and above all pray for good common sense. He will lead you to those who teach and preach the truth, if that's what you desire.

As a rule, TV ministries are geared toward entertainment. TBN may have a large audience but that of itself doesn't mean they're teaching the truth.

"Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it."—Matthew 7:13-14

 

[ResidentAlien]

2 Timothy 4:3-4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

 

[Polar]

https://www.gotquestions.org/Word-Faith.html

Is the Word of Faith movement biblical?

(from part way down the page)
The Word of Faith movement grew out of the Pentecostal movement in the late 20th century. Its founder was E. W. Kenyon, who studied the metaphysical New Thought teachings of Phineas Quimby. Mind science (where "name it and claim it" originated) was combined with Pentecostalism, resulting in a peculiar mix of orthodox Christianity and mysticism. Kenneth Hagin, in turn, studied under E. W. Kenyon and made the Word of Faith movement what it is today. Although individual teachings range from completely heretical to completely ridiculous, what follows is the basic theology most Word of Faith teachers align themselves with.

At the heart of the Word of Faith movement is the belief in the "force of faith." It is believed words can be used to manipulate the faith-force, and thus actually create what they believe Scripture promises (health and wealth). Laws supposedly governing the faith-force are said to operate independently of God’s sovereign will and that God Himself is subject to these laws. This is nothing short of idolatry, turning our faith—and by extension ourselves—into god.

The GotQuestions site is a cessationist site. What else would we expect them to say? Further, the description is not correct. Faith actually is a force. You are saved through faith. Name it and claim it might apply to some but certainly not everyone.

Perhaps a discussion on what faith actually is and what it accomplishes might help some people in this forum who seem to have more of a leaning towards if I see I will believe it. That worked for Thomas, but he lived the actual death of the Son of God.

 

[Polar]

You're the one who posted the fabulous claims of his miraculous healings, not me. If you want to believe fables that's one thing; but when you post it here as fact I don't think it's too much to ask that you substantiate your claims. If you can't that's fine.

Ok then. How do you intend to substantiate your claims? After researching Peters, his actual beliefs and his lack of logical conclusions with his limited presentations, edited to support his thoughts, I would pretty much call his thoughts lumpy and I am sure he would not care to be painted with the very very broad brush he uses on others.

Perhaps his leanings lie in the fact he has not been healed himself? And I say that with the understanding that I do not believe everyone is healed and there are examples of that scripture. You know, most likely both sides suffer from some sort of myopic condition where they only see one side. That being said, preaching half the gospel would create half a gospel. I wonder how that effects the church as a body?

 

[Polar]

2 Timothy 4:3-4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

That applies to those who refuse to believe half the gospel as well. Many follow MacArthur and he preaches but half the gospel. So, since that is so, II Timothy 4: 3-4 would apply to those who are cessationists.

Sorry sorry state of affairs.

 

[BeeThePeace]

The GotQuestions site is a cessationist site. What else would we expect them to say? Further, the description is not correct. Faith actually is a force. You are saved through faith. Name it and claim it might apply to some but certainly not everyone.

Perhaps a discussion on what faith actually is and what it accomplishes might help some people in this forum who seem to have more of a leaning towards if I see I will believe it. That worked for Thomas, but he lived the actual death of the Son of God.

There is a difference between having faith in the power of the word, and the wird oof faith movement. Which in effect behaves as if God rewards people with material wealth if they only believe in him.

Believe! I'll pay you!

It's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Polar]

There is a difference between having faith in the power of the word, and the wird oof faith movement. Which in effect behaves as if God rewards people with material wealth if they only believe in him.

Believe! I'll pay you!

It's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.

That is not true at all. There are charlatans and they have been with us from the beginning. But as a wise person once said, do not throw the baby out with the bath water, which is what you and others are doing when you lump everyone together. You know, it goes both ways as I stated in my other post.

People seem to take a verse or passage from scripture and apply it to others when the whole time what we read is talking about us personally.

Expounding on half the gospel is not the gospel and yet that is what cessationists do and some go all the way and attack the half they say is no longer valid. You and a few others focus on the money, the wealth and prestige, yet how much money does it take to share the gospel with people who cannot get out of the house or refuse to go to church anymore because they have been so disappointed in the people in the church who also need to focus on themselves.

God is not in the business of answering prayers to change others. He will reply pretty fast though if you ask Him about yourself.

Do you believe certain gifts are no longer valid? Do you believe God no longer heals anyone? Do you think that because there are imposters nothing is real just because you have not personally experienced it? What is the difference to you between speaking the word in faith and denying that word will act on your behalf? I call that doubt and we are told to just not bother to even come to God if doubt is what we are portraying.

Yes there are moments of doubt in all of us but when a person is in that state all that time, they pass over into DENIAL and denying what the Bible states clearly for ALL of us is DENIAL. That person, we are told, should not expect anything from God.

And that is what they get. Zero.

 

[BeeThePeace]

That is not true at all. There are charlatans and they have been with us from the beginning. But as a wise person once said, do not throw the baby out with the bath water, which is what you and others are doing when you lump everyone together. You know, it goes both ways as I stated in my other post.

People seem to take a verse or passage from scripture and apply it to others when the whole time what we read is talking about us personally.

Expounding on half the gospel is not the gospel and yet that is what cessationists do and some go all the way and attack the half they say is no longer valid. You and a few others focus on the money, the wealth and prestige, yet how much money does it take to share the gospel with people who cannot get out of the house or refuse to go to church anymore because they have been so disappointed in the people in the church who also need to focus on themselves.

God is not in the business of answering prayers to change others. He will reply pretty fast though if you ask Him about yourself.

Do you believe certain gifts are no longer valid? Do you believe God no longer heals anyone? Do you think that because there are imposters nothing is real just because you have not personally experienced it? What is the difference to you between speaking the word in faith and denying that word will act on your behalf? I call that doubt and we are told to just not bother to even come to God if doubt is what we are portraying.

Yes there are moments of doubt in all of us but when a person is in that state all that time, they pass over into DENIAL and denying what the Bible states clearly for ALL of us is DENIAL. That person, we are told, should not expect anything from God.

And that is what they get. Zero.

I think if you go back and read the op you'll see charlatans are the topic. And all through this thread.

 

[Polar]

I think if you go back and read the op you'll see charlatans are the topic. And all through this thread.

Oh I know. But why don't you and several others admit to the fact that you lump everyone together? That, is what I am talking about and it certainly plays right into the so called heresy hunter bios. You have also handily ignored the fact that in order for some of these people that go about condemning others to hell and calling them liars and so on, actually puts the onus on them. Peters (video posted) is a hard core cessationist so his view is quite prejudiced. He is in disagreement with everything Charis stands for so he is hardly going to produce a video that shows anything good.

I have already stated I am not certain about some of what is taught at Charis, but that hardly makes the entire ministry bogus and to be avoided at all costs. Every single church and or ministry can be shown to have wrong teaching in one place or another and to state all the offenders are to be found under the teachings of word of faith is extremely biased.

I already mentioned MacArthur because he is so well known both for his stand against certain gifts and for his attacks on those who speak in tongues. Posting about another view of charlatans, is certainly within the scope of the discussion on them. My point being there are charlatans who speak against what they interpreted scripture to mean, while going out of their way to paint others in a very bad light.

It goes both ways. You do not have to address these facts and saying I am off topic because I have a different point of view and in fact am trying to see both sides, illustrates the fact you do not wish to consider both sides. So that's fine if that is how you prefer to deal with examining what others say unless they agree with what you perceive as a one sided truth fits all scenario.

 

[Polar]

II Timothy 4:3-4 is used as a weapon far too often rather than for the instruction it was intentioned for.

You can actually apply those verses to anyone and call them a liar or a false Christian. I choose to do that and pray for discernment so that I choose what I believe to be truth wisely and not allow myself to be told by others what is false especially when it concerns actual biblical truth.

Certain people refuse to believe the gifts are still in operation, or at least several of the gifts. They make it their business to smear everyone who does not agree with them, as being wrong or in the case of MacArthur, even worse, saying these people are demonic.

Doesn't anyone see that the harm this causes is far worse than sin and problems without the body of Christ?

 

[BeeThePeace]

Oh I know. But why don't you and several others admit to the fact that you lump everyone together? That, is what I am talking about and it certainly plays right into the so called heresy hunter bios. You have also handily ignored the fact that in order for some of these people that go about condemning others to hell and calling them liars and so on, actually puts the onus on them. Peters (video posted) is a hard core cessationist so his view is quite prejudiced. He is in disagreement with everything Charis stands for so he is hardly going to produce a video that shows anything good.

I have already stated I am not certain about some of what is taught at Charis, but that hardly makes the entire ministry bogus and to be avoided at all costs. Every single church and or ministry can be shown to have wrong teaching in one place or another and to state all the offenders are to be found under the teachings of word of faith is extremely biased.

I already mentioned MacArthur because he is so well known both for his stand against certain gifts and for his attacks on those who speak in tongues. Posting about another view of charlatans, is certainly within the scope of the discussion on them. My point being there are charlatans who speak against what they interpreted scripture to mean, while going out of their way to paint others in a very bad light.

It goes both ways. You do not have to address these facts and saying I am off topic because I have a different point of view and in fact am trying to see both sides, illustrates the fact you do not wish to consider both sides. So that's fine if that is how you prefer to deal with examining what others say unless they agree with what you perceive as a one sided truth fits all scenario.

We're lumping the charlatans together. As they should be. You'd see that if you paid attention to the discussion rather than insist on being off topic and self righteous in the process.

 

[Polar]

We're lumping the charlatans together. As they should be. You'd see that if you paid attention to the discussion rather than insist on being off topic and self righteous in the process.

No you have missed quite a few. Anyone, let me say that again, anyone who teaches only half the gospel is either a liar or they are deceived. I have named MacArthur because he is very well known. Your sarcastic remarks towards me at this point indicate you are not able to respond to the points I have made so have become defensive and declared me guilty of being self righteous.

How do you expect to convince others of how right you are when you stoop to deflecting and snark? Tell you what though. You are entitled to your opinions and your snark and obviously do not wish to actually engage in discussion about the concerns being brought up in this thread. That is your prerogative and mine is to leave off a fruitless engagement with someone who does not consider that they might not have all the truth there is to know about God.

I consider I do not know all there is to God and I believe that thought does come from what I actually do know concerning God and the risen Christ and the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Have a good week-end.

 

[TabinRivCA]

Btw I'm listening to K Copeland right now and will continue to listen to Smith Wigglesworth, K Hagin, Gloria Copeland, Lake, Curry and Kenyon. Yes, feed me with Words of Faith Womack and some of the others mentioned I don't listen to or know.
Oh I can't leave out Dodie Osteen who in 1981 was diagnosed with a tumor on her liver the size of an orange. The Drs gave her a few weeks to live. Her husband John Osteen told the Dr 'well Dr we believe in miracles', 41 yrs later she is alive and well.
Mark 11:23-24
23 “Truly[a] I tell you, if anyone says to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and does not doubt in their heart but believes that what they say will happen, it will be done for them. 24 Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours". (Jesus the Word)

 

[ResidentAlien]

Oh I can't leave out Dodie Osteen who in 1981 was diagnosed with a tumor on her liver the size of an orange. The Drs gave her a few weeks to live. Her husband John Osteen told the Dr 'well Dr we believe in miracles', 41 yrs later she is alive and well.

More unsubstantiated nonsense. You are gullible indeed.

 

[TabinRivCA]

More unsubstantiated nonsense. You are gullible indeed.

If I'm gullible than you're a doubter.

 

[Polar]

Btw I'm listening to K Copeland right now and will continue to listen to Smith Wigglesworth, K Hagin, Gloria Copeland, Lake, Curry and Kenyon. Yes, feed me with Words of Faith Womack and some of the others mentioned I don't listen to or know.
Oh I can't leave out Dodie Osteen who in 1981 was diagnosed with a tumor on her liver the size of an orange. The Drs gave her a few weeks to live. Her husband John Osteen told the Dr 'well Dr we believe in miracles', 41 yrs later she is alive and well.
Mark 11:23-24
23 “Truly[a] I tell you, if anyone says to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and does not doubt in their heart but believes that what they say will happen, it will be done for them. 24 Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours". (Jesus the Word)

What you say is true. We are most likely going to continue as we believe we are being led by God. I actually listen to Womack now and then, Joyce Meyer (gasp), Derek Prince (who is not longer of this earth) and several others including one today I found very truthful in what they were saying about marriage and I had never even heard of them before. I know God still heals and while he has not healed every injury I gave to myself, he has been my shield and my protector and I have seen others healed.

Faith. I think this thread illustrates that too many have placed their faith in a human who lacks faith rather than in God who rewards faith. God encourages us to move on and not stay static and you cannot move on if you do not believe in certain things in scripture.

I will say though, that the most boisterous and complaining voices do seem to belong to the heresy hunters and those who follow them. I do believe the day is coming when those who oppose the work of the Holy Spirit will desire some of those gifts they distained. One thing for sure, we need Holy Spirit discernment as more and more devices of the enemy are put into play.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

From post #33

Luke 6:39
And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

 

[ResidentAlien]

If I'm gullible than you're a doubter.

I totally agree, I'm a doubter. I doubt fantastic claims of people that have no basis in fact.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Here's a video of Dodie Osteen's testimony. From the things she says it's clear she's mixed New Age hocus-pocus with her Christianity. At one point (starts around 26:30) she says she visualized pictures of herself when she was younger riding horses and in her wedding dress. She says when things "came against her" she'd remember the pictures.

She also uses Romans 14:7 to say we have the same authority as God to call things into existence from nothing: "(as it is written, 'I have made you a father of many nations' ) in the presence of Him whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did;" This passage is talking about Yahweh, not humans. A typical example of Word Faith scripture twisting.

At 26:35 she talks about a "contract" she made between herself, her husband and Jesus. Of course Jesus couldn't sign His name so she signed for Him. It was a "long list of things she wanted." This too is little more than positive affirmations put in writing, a very common practice for New Agers and practitioners of magic.

In all fairness she does talk a lot about prayer and scriptures, but as we've seen her understanding of scripture seem influenced by her New Thought and New Age beliefs. Did James say we should say positive affirmations or do creative visualization? Not hardly: "And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up."

All we have to go on is John and Dodie Osteen's word. This, coupled with the fact she's clearly a false teacher, makes it plain to me she's not to be believed.

 

[TabinRivCA]

Here's a video of Dodie Osteen's testimony. From the things she says it's clear she's mixed New Age hocus-pocus with her Christianity. At one point (starts around 26:30) she says she visualized pictures of herself when she was younger riding horses and in her wedding dress. She says when things "came against her" she'd remember the pictures.

She also uses Romans 14:7 to say we have the same authority as God to call things into existence from nothing: "(as it is written, 'I have made you a father of many nations' ) in the presence of Him whom he believed—God, who gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did;" This passage is talking about Yahweh, not humans. A typical example of Word Faith scripture twisting.

At 26:35 she talks about a "contract" she made between herself, her husband and Jesus. Of course Jesus couldn't sign His name so she signed for Him. It was a "long list of things she wanted." This too is little more than positive affirmations put in writing, a very common practice for New Agers and practitioners of magic.

In all fairness she does talk a lot about prayer and scriptures, but as we've seen her understanding of scripture seem influenced by her New Thought and New Age beliefs. Did James say we should say positive affirmations or do creative visualization? Not hardly: "And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up."

All we have to go on is John and Dodie Osteen's word. This, coupled with the fact she's clearly a false teacher, makes it plain to me she's not to be believed.

You think her healing is of the devil?