andrew wommack

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I used to be a huge fan of Wayne Dyer back in the 90s. He taught a kind of "positive confession" similar to Word Faith. That is, the thoughts in your mind and the words of your mouth create your reality. However Dyer was diagnosed with leukemia in 2009 and died of a heart attack in 2015.

Did he bring it on himself? If anyone would've been resistant to to disease you would think the guru of positive confession himself would be. Rather, I would argue that Yahweh is in control, not us.

Again I would ask: With all their positive confession, why did top people at Charis get COVD?

Word Faith actually grew out of the New Thought movement with Kenneth Hagin plagiarising large portion of works by E. W. Kenyon.
 
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ResidentAlien said:
Word Faith actually grew out of the New Thought movement with Kenneth Hagin plagiarising large portion of works by E. W. Kenyon.
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That is actually true.
Though it's sad to see someone using that as an excuse to accuse the whole movement as falsehood.
It's obvious you're some kind of profiteer looking to "cash in" on your accusations.
What's the difference between you & those you expose? Not much.
A profiteer is a profiteer. They set themselves up to be some big somebody. Since you have a well-known status, there's the evidence.
If we research you like you did them, we'd find the same things, except for the money.
What we would find is the facade like those you accuse them of having.
Romans 2:1Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things.
 
Edify said:
That is actually true.
Though it's sad to see someone using that as an excuse to accuse the whole movement as falsehood.
It's obvious you're some kind of profiteer looking to "cash in" on your accusations.
What's the difference between you & those you expose? Not much.
A profiteer is a profiteer. They set themselves up to be some big somebody. Since you have a well-known status, there's the evidence.
If we research you like you did them, we'd find the same things, except for the money.
What we would find is the facade like those you accuse them of having.
Romans 2:1Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things.
Click to expand...

LOL, you're hilarious. I'm sorry, I try not to laugh at people but in this case I just couldn't help myself.

I don't trash the whole movement because of Hagin; but he started it and his plagiarism is just one piece of the puzzle. But yes, I do say the whole movement is worthless; no apologies there. I don't care how many "true" things they teach, it's far outweighed by the false.
 
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Edify said:
That is actually true.
Though it's sad to see someone using that as an excuse to accuse the whole movement as falsehood.
It's obvious you're some kind of profiteer looking to "cash in" on your accusations.
What's the difference between you & those you expose? Not much.
A profiteer is a profiteer. They set themselves up to be some big somebody. Since you have a well-known status, there's the evidence.
If we research you like you did them, we'd find the same things, except for the money.
What we would find is the facade like those you accuse them of having.
Romans 2:1Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things.
Click to expand...
Good Point. Matthew 7 Do not judge and you will be judged. Do not condemn and you will not be condemned.... People are quick to judge another person, yet are slow to take responsibility for their own person and character.
 
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Edify said:
That is actually true.
Though it's sad to see someone using that as an excuse to accuse the whole movement as falsehood.
It's obvious you're some kind of profiteer looking to "cash in" on your accusations.
What's the difference between you & those you expose? Not much.
A profiteer is a profiteer. They set themselves up to be some big somebody. Since you have a well-known status, there's the evidence.
If we research you like you did them, we'd find the same things, except for the money.
What we would find is the facade like those you accuse them of having.
Romans 2:1Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things.
Click to expand...

I have no idea what my "status" is here and I don't really care. Maybe you think about these things, I don't.

Actually it takes very little effort or research to discover the false teachings of all the false prophets and teachers out there. They're so numerous you could throw a dart blindfolded and hit any number of them.

Once again it comes down to my character. You want to shift the discussion away from Andrew Wommack's lies and onto me. Well, go ahead, I'm used to it, I can take it. It comes with the territory.

I don't condemn Andrew Wommack, that's not my job; but it is my job to call him out on his lies. He may have an "awe shucks" downhome manner; but a lie's a lie regardless of someone's personality. To be fair, no, I'm not perfect; but I don't go around saying I resurrected people from the dead when I didn't; nor do I profit by misleading people into thinking they can control their destiny by uttering a few magic words.

I have nothing whatsoever against Andrew Wommack personally; I've never met him nor do I want to. He may be kind and genuinely care about people. But you don't love people by lying to them.
 
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Scripture does tell us to confront the person we have a problem with before making it public. Apparently Justin Peters says he did so. So now he is creating videos or at least a video, of why he believes Andrew Womack is a false teacher. Personally I do find Womack a little 'out there' but I would not be so quick to label him a false teacher or a wolf among sheep as the Bible would describe him if he were guilty of the charge.

Peters has his own reason to be disappointed in those who believe in healing as he has cerebral palsy and has not been healed despite many prayers from many people. I don't think the Bible supports perfect health or healing for all believers and you don't have to go farther than Paul to point that out.

Calling Womack a false teacher is calling him a liar and that would mean that Womack does not believe his own words and is therefore lying. Justin is also a cessationist which means he would call anyone saying they speak in tongues or have another spiritual gift, a liar. He has no evidence for that conclusion other than his own interpretation of certain scriptures.

Peters is not accurate when he presents word of faith teaching. For example, here is a quote from him: “In WoF land, you will hear the word “activate” a lot. In WoF teachings, the object of our faith is our faith (really, us). We possess faith. Something we DO activates it, then God works within it. That’s why within WoF if something doesn’t happen the way we decreed it, (healing, prosperity) it means WE didn’t have enough faith. Things depend on us and our faith, not on God. You see the switch: in WoF teachings it’s switched from God being sovereign to us being sovereign. Word of Faith teachers need to read and re-read Job 38-41 to learn man’s place before a sovereign God.”

However, which word of faith teacher is saying that? I can't find one nor have I heard one and while I do not believe we create reality with our words, our words most certainly do have an effect on us and those around us. Here is one thing Jesus did say about our words:Matthew 8:13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go your way; and as you have believed, so let it be done for you.” And his servant was healed that same hour.

As you have believed (and asserted by the words you spoke) it will be done for you. For sure I cannot claim understanding of why some are healed and some are not or why, sometimes, a skeptic will be healed or become a believer. Peters claims word of faith teachers say that we and not God, are sovereign, but that is not true. That claim would actually apply to sovereignty theology and not word of faith.

Peters is a reformed Baptist and that denomination lends itself to much concerning his portrayal of the beliefs of others that he does not agree with.

I am not a word of faith person, but I would suggest that positive confession regarding God and his will in our lives will line up with His word while negativity and decrying people we believe to be false are not the object when it comes to how we view things.

Are there false and dangerous teachers. Yes. And some of them think they are doing us all a favor by creating personal experience as the yardstick against which we measure truth. It isn't though.

Long post, but this is a serious topic and I don't know enough about Womack to call him false or a liar.
 
ResidentAlien said:
LOL, you're hilarious. I'm sorry, I try not to laugh at people but in this case I just couldn't help myself.

I don't trash the whole movement because of Hagin; but he started it and his plagiarism is just one piece of the puzzle. But yes, I do say the whole movement is worthless; no apologies there. I don't care how many "true" things they teach, it's far outweighed by the false.
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K Hagin had three 'incurable' ailments as was told this by Dr's at the Mayo Clinic. They told him 'if one doesn't kill you the other one will and if that one doesn't the last of the three will'. Instead of accepting their conclusion, he turned to Mark 11:23-24 where Jesus is instructing to 'say to a mountain be removed and if you believe w/o doubting you will have whatever you say'.(condensed)
By faith in God's Word he was healed and went on to preach another 50+ years. Also, the great teachers of faith from the Bible, don't care if they are quoted, many draw off of each other and usually will mention their reference source.
I don't understand you're complaints or point.
 
Polar said:
Scripture does tell us to confront the person we have a problem with before making it public.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, that's a misunderstanding of Matthew 18:15-17: "Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that 'by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.' And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector."

This refers to a case where a person has sinned personally against you: if he/she has defrauded you, lied about you, etc.; things of that nature.

It has nothing to do with false prophets. It would be impossible to confront them all personally, even if you could get an audience with them.

It's not only Justin Peters who hasn't been healed. People on the staff of Wommack's own church wear glasses. They obviously haven't been healed. Two of his staff that I know of got COVID. Bethel Church had to be shut down as a COVID hotspot during the pandemic. Many other people out there who haven't been healed. If Yahweh wanted everyone healed and in perfect health the hospitals would be out of business.
 
TabinRivCA said:
K Hagin had three 'incurable' ailments as was told this by Dr's at the Mayo Clinic. They told him 'if one doesn't kill you the other one will and if that one doesn't the last of the three will'. Instead of accepting their conclusion, he turned to Mark 11:23-24 where Jesus is instructing to 'say to a mountain be removed and if you believe w/o doubting you will have whatever you say'.(condensed)
By faith in God's Word he was healed and went on to preach another 50+ years. Also, the great teachers of faith from the Bible, don't care if they are quoted, many draw off of each other and usually will mention their reference source.
I don't understand you're complaints or point.
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Could you please site your source.
 
ResidentAlien said:
Could you please site your source.
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This supposedly happened in 1934.
When I read of it here I thought of Saul being blinded at the beginning of his conversion and then healed by one of God's people.

Only Hagin claimed to be paralized.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=pastor ken hagin healed&pc=MOZB&form=MOZMBA

Havin, Womak,Copeland, Duplantis, White, Meyer,are all Word of Faith charlatans who live like kings. Private jets, Rolls Royces, million dollar mansions.

Just like Jesus did. 🤔 Who walked everywhere he went.
 
BeeThePeace said:
This supposedly happened in 1934.
When I read of it here I thought of Saul being blinded at the beginning of his conversion and then healed by one of God's people.

Only Hagin claimed to be paralized.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=pastor ken hagin healed&pc=MOZB&form=MOZMBA

Havin, Womak,Copeland, Duplantis, White, Meyer,are all Word of Faith charlatans who live like kings. Private jets, Rolls Royces, million dollar mansions.

Just like Jesus did. 🤔 Who walked everywhere he went.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the link. I tried watching it but gave up, even on 2x playback. He says sickness come from Satan, but I'm highly skeptical. For one I don't recall anything in the New Testament that says sickness is from Satan; someone may correct me if I'm wrong. Second, sickness and death are the result of the fall. Yes, Satan was the instigator but it was the result of Adam & Eve's disobedience: "For on the day you eat of it you shall surely die."

Once again, as far as I know, all we have is Hagin's testimony. No medical records have been produced. All we have is Hagin's word which is par for the course.
 
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ResidentAlien said:
Thank you for the link. I tried watching it but gave up, even on 2x playback. He says sickness come from Satan, but I'm highly skeptical. For one I don't recall anything in the New Testament that says sickness is from Satan; someone may correct me if I'm wrong. Second, sickness and death are the result of the fall. Yes, Satan was the instigator but it was the result of Adam & Eve's disobedience: "For on the day you eat of it you shall surely die."

Once again, as far as I know, all we have is Hagin's testimony. No medical records have been produced. All we have is Hagin's word which is par for the course.
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Joh 9:1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
Joh 9:2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
Joh 9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
 
2Cor41718 said:
Good Point. Matthew 7 Do not judge and you will be judged. Do not condemn and you will not be condemned.... People are quick to judge another person, yet are slow to take responsibility for their own person and character.
Click to expand...
These verses are also the Word of God
1Jn_4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Joh 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
 
ResidentAlien said:
Thank you for the link. I tried watching it but gave up, even on 2x playback. He says sickness come from Satan, but I'm highly skeptical. For one I don't recall anything in the New Testament that says sickness is from Satan; someone may correct me if I'm wrong. Second, sickness and death are the result of the fall. Yes, Satan was the instigator but it was the result of Adam & Eve's disobedience: "For on the day you eat of it you shall surely die."

Once again, as far as I know, all we have is Hagin's testimony. No medical records have been produced. All we have is Hagin's word which is par for the course.
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I think frauds can never be trusted to know God's word. Especially when claiming sickness is of Satan.

What? That means indwelt Christians holy spirit were overcome by Satan's will to make them sick?

No.
 
ResidentAlien said:
Could you please site your source.
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His son is K Hagin Jr, write him and ask him for the proof.
  • Proverbs 10:22: The blessing of the Lord makes a person rich, and he adds no sorrow with it.
  • 2 Corinthians 9:8: And God will generously provide all you need. Then you will always have everything you need and plenty left over to share with others.
  • Jeremiah 17:7-8: But blessed are those who trust in the Lord and have made the Lord their hope and confidence. They are like trees planted along a riverbank, with roots that reach deep into the water. Such trees are not bothered by the heat or worried by long months of drought. Their leaves stay green, and they never stop producing fruit.
I have no problem with these prosperous preachers and neither do the millions who listen to them. If there is anything wrong about them God is able to deal with it.

Furthermore, as for every man to whom God has given riches and wealth, He has also empowered him to eat from them and to receive his reward and rejoice in his labor; this is the gift of God. Ecclesiastes 5:19
But you shall remember the Lord your God, for it is He who is giving you power to make wealth, that He may confirm His covenant which He swore to your fathers, as it is this day. Deut 8:18
  • Proverbs 10:22: The blessing of the Lord makes a person rich, and he adds no sorrow with it.
  • 2 Corinthians 9:8: And God will generously provide all you need. Then you will always have everything you need and plenty left over to share with others
 
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